. Well in case people were wondering i gathered some stats from the magazine. The only thing the 240 did well in was the skidpad, it actually got the highest one, .89 g's with Dunlop SP sport 4000 M+S tires. It also got the third best emergency lane change maneuver. 0-60 was a 7.7, 1/4 in 16.0 at 86mph. It got deadlast on the racecourse. 3rd best braking of the group as well 70-0 in 170 feet. Oh well, just thought i'd share some knowledge and stats. If you wanna know anything else about the article just ask.
Car and Driver sucks
Car and Driver sucks
Looking through some old magazines...found a June 1994 issue of Car and Driver with a sport coupe comparison. The group consisted of an Acura Integra GS-R, Talon TSi, Probe GT, Prelude VTEC, Eclipse GS-T, 240sx Se, and a Toyota celica GT. The 240 got last place . Well in case people were wondering i gathered some stats from the magazine. The only thing the 240 did well in was the skidpad, it actually got the highest one, .89 g's with Dunlop SP sport 4000 M+S tires. It also got the third best emergency lane change maneuver. 0-60 was a 7.7, 1/4 in 16.0 at 86mph. It got deadlast on the racecourse. 3rd best braking of the group as well 70-0 in 170 feet. Oh well, just thought i'd share some knowledge and stats. If you wanna know anything else about the article just ask.
. Well in case people were wondering i gathered some stats from the magazine. The only thing the 240 did well in was the skidpad, it actually got the highest one, .89 g's with Dunlop SP sport 4000 M+S tires. It also got the third best emergency lane change maneuver. 0-60 was a 7.7, 1/4 in 16.0 at 86mph. It got deadlast on the racecourse. 3rd best braking of the group as well 70-0 in 170 feet. Oh well, just thought i'd share some knowledge and stats. If you wanna know anything else about the article just ask.-
Jusepi97sx
- Posts: 239
- Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2002 8:35 pm
- Car: Nissan S14
WTF, A Probe GT and GST out handeling a 240!!! And A CELICA!!!!!!!! I have out ran plenty of them through turns in my 240, I dont think the handeling difference is so much between a s13 and s14. It was rigged!!!!!-
MaineExport
- Posts: 3784
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 3:27 pm
- Car: 95 Nissan 240SX FAL fans AEM intake Hot Shot header Apexi N1 dual Exhaust VLSD ABS NX 50 shot
Talon TSi... is that a turbo?Eclipse GS-T... that's a turbo.Probe GT... some of those are turbo'd. (what year?)
Well, I can totally see the Acura, Talon and Eclipse having an edge in acceleration and handling.... but there is no way the celica GT can beat it in either catagory. My brother owned one, great car... handled okay and was kind of fast... but not better than a 240. I guess the Probe GT must have been the newer generation, because the turbo GT was early 90's. They were fast, but handled like slush.
I can see how we would rank last. We have a great car, but it doesn't excell in areas that most mags like car and driver look into. It's also the only RWD in that comparison..... hmmm, car and driver does suck!
Well, I can totally see the Acura, Talon and Eclipse having an edge in acceleration and handling.... but there is no way the celica GT can beat it in either catagory. My brother owned one, great car... handled okay and was kind of fast... but not better than a 240. I guess the Probe GT must have been the newer generation, because the turbo GT was early 90's. They were fast, but handled like slush.
I can see how we would rank last. We have a great car, but it doesn't excell in areas that most mags like car and driver look into. It's also the only RWD in that comparison..... hmmm, car and driver does suck!
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MaineExport
- Posts: 3784
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 3:27 pm
- Car: 95 Nissan 240SX FAL fans AEM intake Hot Shot header Apexi N1 dual Exhaust VLSD ABS NX 50 shot
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lateralmotion
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 8:49 pm
- Car: guitar, skateboarding, driving
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Nebraska240sx
- Posts: 641
- Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 8:14 pm
ok heres my opinion, probe american to popoular anyways, and they suck, celica, had two can't upgrade them for chit, anways unlessits an alltrac turbo who car, and there are to may of them, eclipse, overrated, gs-r cost to much, talons go to chit after 100k (freind has one and it has nickeled and dimes him for two years, and you can't drift in a perlude, or any of the others by that means, so my rating, it you can't drift it don't buy it!!!!
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not_a_porsche
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:33 pm
Originally posted by wingzero car and driver is the kind of magazine who would say a car sucks because it doesn't have enough cup holders or the seats are unsupportive. If they would've tested it out with an SR20 in the 240, the way it was meant to be, I'm pretty sure things would've turned out differently.
Nah. Read the article
The word "cupholder" is nowhere in that article, BTW.
From above:We can almost write the angry letters ourselves: "What the hell's wrong with you gearheads? The Acura finished fourth in 0 to 60, fourth around the racetrack, sixth in the lane change, and last in braking. And yet you placed it first. C'mon, you're all on the Honda payroll, right?"
And this sums it up nicely:What the Integra's top-place finish proves is not who writes our checks, but how little outright performance numbers mean to the enjoyment of a fine car.
Nah. Read the article
The word "cupholder" is nowhere in that article, BTW.
From above:We can almost write the angry letters ourselves: "What the hell's wrong with you gearheads? The Acura finished fourth in 0 to 60, fourth around the racetrack, sixth in the lane change, and last in braking. And yet you placed it first. C'mon, you're all on the Honda payroll, right?"
And this sums it up nicely:What the Integra's top-place finish proves is not who writes our checks, but how little outright performance numbers mean to the enjoyment of a fine car.
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not_a_porsche
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:33 pm
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MikeS14240sx
- Posts: 381
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:06 pm
- Car: 98 Nissan 240SX
The 240 wasnt' the worst car it was just the most under powered. None of the other cars have been restricted in anyways hp wise in the US market like the 240. If the 240 had a sr20 from the factory it would have been right up there with the best of them.
The 240 has a truck motor for god's sake. Of course its the perfect sports coupe for your niece.
The 240 has a truck motor for god's sake. Of course its the perfect sports coupe for your niece.
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Bubba1
- Moderator
- Posts: 16082
- Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:42 pm
- Car: 2003 Nissan 350z
2024 Honda HR-V
2008 Toyota Corolla S
2001 Toyota Avalon XLS
FYI, C&D is not the magazine that writes about cup holders, you're probably thinking CR (Consumer Reports). C&D doesn't focus much on LT ownership, they weigh performance more. I'm not sure I'd rank the 240sx as the best performer of that group either. Although agile, attractive, reliable and well built, stock 240's are certainly not quick. But as far as which of that group I'd rather OWN, well, all I can say is I have a 240sx in my garage, not an eclipse or probe. It's a shame Nissan never put a more powerful engine in the 240. Poor marketing decision on Nissan's part if you ask me. Look what dropping in a zippier motor did for Subaru's Impreza....(WRX) .
this is my opinion: Car and Driver blows - i used to have a couple of thier mags and you can never trust any of thier tests they give whack times like i remember i did a project on the Honda Insights fuel efficentcy and i found that car and drivers quarter mile time was 2 full seconds less than any other time i found. I think thier just unreliable straigh out.
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Bubba1
- Moderator
- Posts: 16082
- Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:42 pm
- Car: 2003 Nissan 350z
2024 Honda HR-V
2008 Toyota Corolla S
2001 Toyota Avalon XLS
I dunno if I'd say they suck. Their writers are subjective, biased car enthusiasts, but what car enthusiasts do you know that are totally unbiased (besides me.. just kidding)? C&D is hardly a reference tool. IMO some of their writers are actually pretty good. I've always thought Bedard and Csere were knowledgeable and good writers, for example. Though I got bored long ago with Yates with his never-ending Cannonball crap. I certainly wouldn't base a car buying decision on what C&D recommends, but it's fun reading...
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Mayhem_J30
- Posts: 2643
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 2:00 am
- Car: Ummm...My Car
- Location: Louisville, KY
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Former_240_s14
- Posts: 1943
- Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 7:34 pm
- Car: 07 BMW 335i Coupe
- Contact:
I would like to say this really quick guys, let me put it in the simplest way I can
IT IS IDIOTIC TO COMPARE A FORCED INDUCTION MOTOR TO A NATURALLY "sp?" ASPIRATED MOTOR. Not fair either way you do it.
Also, the s14, or s13 is not set up for off line acc. HOWEVER, if we were on the highway at lets say 75mph and drop fourth gear. GAME OVER!!!
IT IS IDIOTIC TO COMPARE A FORCED INDUCTION MOTOR TO A NATURALLY "sp?" ASPIRATED MOTOR. Not fair either way you do it.
Also, the s14, or s13 is not set up for off line acc. HOWEVER, if we were on the highway at lets say 75mph and drop fourth gear. GAME OVER!!!
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InitialDGuy
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 2:37 pm
A couple of things...
First of all, the Ford Probe GT (or the Se for that matter) are about as American as Mt. Fuji. Everything on that car was engineered by Mazda. The driveline, suspension, brakes, floorpan, everything. These cars were very competitive in their day in SCCA Showroom stock as well as various road racing and autocrossing events, where they remain a force to this day. They are actually a pretty good value if you are looking for a daily driver/autocross vehicle and you live in a colder climate where you have to deal with snow.
Secondly, I would take issue with everyone making blanket statements about the other cars in this test all being "POS".The 94 Celica GT is reliable as night and day, and handles pretty good stock. I would say it's alot more reliable than a KA24E (Got to love those leaky fuel injectors). The Probe/MX-6 twins have their problems, but are generally pretty reliable mechanically. The Honda Prelude and Integra are both reliable as well. Both would be slightly quicker than a S14 240SX , as well as keep up in the corners. A newer Prelude SH would flat out destroy any stock or mildly modified S13 or S14 240SX with similar mods on a road course (I have had it happen to me) The one vehicle I would agree with are the DSMs (Talon, Eclipse, Laser). They are very unreliable. The 5 speed trannies are very weak, sometimes lasting only to 60-70K on AWD Turbo models. They also have problems with blowing head gaskets, and especially have problems with premature piston ring wear ( A problem it seems, every Mitsubishi of the era had, dating back to the early eighties). The 1G cars of course had the notorious crank walk problem. That said, you can find running 1G AWD Turbo DSMs around here for under 2 grand all day long, and they are very very easy to modify.
I am sorry for the rant, but I am sick and tired of people running their mouths off about what sucks and what doesn't, when they clearly don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. It's the same problem I have with alot of domestic owners around here who give no respect to any import performance enthusiast, no mater what they drive. It works both ways people, just cause it's not Japanese doesn't mean that it is terrible or a "POS".
I can fully understand why the test doesn't stand well with alot of you; Most of you drive 240SX's. I do to. I am as diehard a Nissan fanatic as the next man (Or woman). But they were looking for the car that gave the best complete package. The S14 didn't do that. It was underpowered by comparison, with a rather un-sophisticated powerplant. It is a sport coupe, and was in competition with other sport coupes. These are the cars that the buying public would have chose from if they were looking for a sport coupe. The Talon/Eclipse, while AWD and Turbocharged, were actually cheaper than the 240, thus giving them a better performance value for the new car buyer's dollar.
On that note, I thought it was pretty odd to compare two basically identical cars (The Eclipse and the Talon). The fact that they finished in different places is very unusual indeed.
The fact that the Japanese S14 had a turbocharged 2.0L is irrelevent in this comparison. They were comparing NEW cars as they were availible from the dealer. We can go all day and all night about what car is better with which engine swap.
First of all, the Ford Probe GT (or the Se for that matter) are about as American as Mt. Fuji. Everything on that car was engineered by Mazda. The driveline, suspension, brakes, floorpan, everything. These cars were very competitive in their day in SCCA Showroom stock as well as various road racing and autocrossing events, where they remain a force to this day. They are actually a pretty good value if you are looking for a daily driver/autocross vehicle and you live in a colder climate where you have to deal with snow.
Secondly, I would take issue with everyone making blanket statements about the other cars in this test all being "POS".The 94 Celica GT is reliable as night and day, and handles pretty good stock. I would say it's alot more reliable than a KA24E (Got to love those leaky fuel injectors). The Probe/MX-6 twins have their problems, but are generally pretty reliable mechanically. The Honda Prelude and Integra are both reliable as well. Both would be slightly quicker than a S14 240SX , as well as keep up in the corners. A newer Prelude SH would flat out destroy any stock or mildly modified S13 or S14 240SX with similar mods on a road course (I have had it happen to me) The one vehicle I would agree with are the DSMs (Talon, Eclipse, Laser). They are very unreliable. The 5 speed trannies are very weak, sometimes lasting only to 60-70K on AWD Turbo models. They also have problems with blowing head gaskets, and especially have problems with premature piston ring wear ( A problem it seems, every Mitsubishi of the era had, dating back to the early eighties). The 1G cars of course had the notorious crank walk problem. That said, you can find running 1G AWD Turbo DSMs around here for under 2 grand all day long, and they are very very easy to modify.
I am sorry for the rant, but I am sick and tired of people running their mouths off about what sucks and what doesn't, when they clearly don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. It's the same problem I have with alot of domestic owners around here who give no respect to any import performance enthusiast, no mater what they drive. It works both ways people, just cause it's not Japanese doesn't mean that it is terrible or a "POS".
I can fully understand why the test doesn't stand well with alot of you; Most of you drive 240SX's. I do to. I am as diehard a Nissan fanatic as the next man (Or woman). But they were looking for the car that gave the best complete package. The S14 didn't do that. It was underpowered by comparison, with a rather un-sophisticated powerplant. It is a sport coupe, and was in competition with other sport coupes. These are the cars that the buying public would have chose from if they were looking for a sport coupe. The Talon/Eclipse, while AWD and Turbocharged, were actually cheaper than the 240, thus giving them a better performance value for the new car buyer's dollar.
On that note, I thought it was pretty odd to compare two basically identical cars (The Eclipse and the Talon). The fact that they finished in different places is very unusual indeed.
The fact that the Japanese S14 had a turbocharged 2.0L is irrelevent in this comparison. They were comparing NEW cars as they were availible from the dealer. We can go all day and all night about what car is better with which engine swap.