Canadian members - Anyone know Christian Okhayian?

[AZhitman]

Christian Okhayian, from Brampton, Ontario?

PM me if so.

Thanks!

[300ZXttZMAN]

I sent a couple pm's to some Canadian Z owners to see if they know the guy. I'll let you know..

They may just pm you directly.

[AZhitman]

He's a Maxima owner, so it might not help...

Thx tho.

[AZhitman]

So, here's what this toolbag did... Basically, he committed credit card fraud (and this is a good lesson for those of you who accept PayPal to be a little more diligent in your selling).

You guys know we also run an exhaust company (www.brmexhaust.com)... We've been a PayPal member since 2004, and a PayPal Advantage member for the past couple years.

Long story short, this clown orders a custom exhaust system, pays via PayPal, emails after it's built and shipped and says he doesn't want it.
I tell him it's already on its way, and there's a restocking charge (plus return shipping costs), so he files a "Item Not Received" complaint with PayPal. When it arrives, he refuses delivery (twice). Knowing that PayPal will find in my favor, he chickens out and files a chargeback with his credit card company. End result? I'm out over $680.

A week after I posted this thread, I get a call from a blocked number... it was this idiot, trying to act tough. I don't think he understands how I do things, because that was a HUGE mistake.

If anyone cares to read the details on what this fraudster did, keep going:
_______________________________________

The following is a chronology of the transaction between buyer (Christian Okhayian) and seller (BRM Exhaust / Greg Childs). All documents noted in this chronology have been retained and are available for review upon request.

June 19 - Purchase made by buyer via PayPal, payment by credit card.
June 20 - Merchant received electronic notification of purchase and initiates production of buyer's exhaust system. Production completed June 22.
June 23/24 - Weekend
June 25 - (6:29 am) Exhaust system dropped off with UPS for packaging and shipping (44lbs). UPS typically provides us with tracking information electronically within 24 hours.
June 25 - (6:52 am) Email received from buyer requesting cancellation of order. No reason given, and no discussion of restocking fees.
June 25 - (7:02 am) Email response to buyer, explaining item has shipped, and explaining restocking fees (20%) and reimbursement of shipping fees. Buyer did not respond.
June 25 - (12:32 pm) Buyer filed PayPal claim, alleging "Non-receipt of item".
June 26 - (11:57 am) On the direction of PayPal Merchant Services, seller sent an email to buyer, explaining restocking fees, and asking buyer if he wished to continue with the claim. No response from buyer.
June 27 - (9:32 am) UPS generated tracking code for package, ready to ship.
June 27 - (9:57 am) Seller called UPS representative to place temporary hold on shipment, in order to await buyer's decision.
June 27 - Tracking number sent to PayPal as required for resolution of buyer's claim. NOTE: PayPal provides this information to the buyer as well.
June 29 - (6:33 am) Email received from buyer demanding full refund and cancellation of order. No mention of restocking fees or any conciliatory measures.
June 30 / July 1 - Weekend
July 3 - Having received no response from buyer, seller released order to ship in order to avoid a "Non-receipt" claim (on PayPal's direction).
July 3 - Revised / updated tracking information provided to PayPal. NOTE: PayPal provided this information to the buyer as well.
July 4 - United States Holiday
July 7/8 - Weekend
July 9 - Seller received notification from UPS that buyer refused delivery of package.
July 11 - Seller received notification from UPS that buyer again refused delivery of package.
July 12 - Seller received notification of $87 in shipping fees are due to return package.
July 14/15 - Weekend
July 17 - Chargeback filed by buyer with credit card company.
July 19 - Seller received notification that the package can no longer be held and must be either picked up, returned, or destroyed. Seller opted for returning the package, incurring an additional expense of $87.

Prior to the PayPal claim being resolved in a timely manner, despite seller providing all requested information, the buyer filed a chargeback with the credit card company.

This appears to be a simple example of chargeback fraud, considering the buyer claimed the item never arrived, when the well-documented reality is that he refused the shipment when UPS attempted delivery. Again, it is important to note that the claim of "non-receipt" is false. The buyer refused the shipment on two occasions.

While I'm aware that credit card companies often find in favor of their customers to the detriment of merchants, this case involves a Canadian customer, which could significantly impact my ability to sue the purchaser for the price of the product as well as shipping costs incurred. Additionally, as a business owner, I now find myself completely at the mercy of the credit card issuer.

At present, because of this false claim, my business has lost $575 (purchase price of the product plus shipping) + $87 (return shipping). Should the buyer decide that he now wants his product, another $87 in shipping will be spent, for a total of $749. To date, the only communication from the buyer has been two emails demanding that we cancel his order.

It is hoped that the credit card issuer will not be complicit in this person's irresponsible and illegal activities. It is only fair that the credit card issuer find in our favor.

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.
______________________________________________________________

PayPal's response to the above was, "You got your merchandise back, there's nothing we can do."

Here's the reply I sent to PayPal (and this is the part you need to be aware of if you're a PayPal merchant):

To Whom it May Concern:

There's a potentially damaging flaw in the PayPal Seller Protection Policy, that all vendors must be made more clearly aware of. Per the section titled, "Avoiding Chargebacks", we have always taken all of the steps outlined therein.

Per the "Chargeback Coverage with PayPal Dispute Resolution" section, PayPal requires only that the seller "...honor the agreements you made with the buyer during the dispute resolution process." We did this.

Per the "Seller Protection" page found at https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/s ... learn-more, we complied with every requirement therein. We even provided PayPal with tracking and proof of TWO occasions of attempted delivery (which clearly document the item was REFUSED by the buyer).

As such, we were confident that we would be covered by PayPal's Seller Protections. We were wrong.

In speaking with our Customer Service Representative, she pointed out that the "proof of shipment and delivery" is defined (in a completely different location) as "Signature Confirmation". Obviously, this could not be obtained because the buyer refused the item on two occasions when delivery was attempted.

As such, it should be made VERY clear in the PayPal User Agreement AND in the Seller Protection section that the default determination in chargeback cases, when the buyer refuses delivery, will be that PayPal will find in the fraudulent buyer's favor. I simply cannot see any conditions where this would NOT be the case. Additionally, the two hours I spent compiling a detailed response (as requested by PayPal) could have been better spent, considering the fact that once the buyer refused the shipment, any "Seller Protection" is meaningless.

Anyone who wishes to do harm to a company can simply make an exorbitant purchase, file a chargeback, and rest assured knowing the vendor will lose the amount of that transaction, as well as any additional associated fees (in our instance, we spent an additional $87 to retrieve our unclaimed property from Canada). The Customer Service Representative indicated that we have our product back. This is no consolation, as this was a custom product which is unlikely to be resold (which is why we charge a restocking fee for all non-warranty returns).

If there is something we have overlooked, please enlighten us. Vendors could easily get the impression that if they comply with all requirements, that PayPal's Seller Protection actually provides any measure of protection.

After allowing PayPal to process countless payments for our company over the past eight years, generating thousands of dollars in revenue for PayPal, I find it disheartening that the misleading "Seller Protections" can be so easily rendered meaningless.
______________________________________________________

PayPal has YET to give a good response, other than to basically say, "So sorry, s*** happens."

Therefore, Christian Okhayian, be advised that your name will forever be associated with your fraudulent activities. Should anyone do a search for your name online, they'll see what kind of integrity and ethics you possess. I bear no ill will towards you, because you must live with the fact that you're a liar, a thief, and a chickens*** punk, hiding behind your credit card company, because you couldn't fulfill your commitments.




Our Canadian friends are keeping an eye on you.

[IanS]

Greg, you make me smile.

[alms24sebring]

Well that makes me feel a whole lot better from when I got swindled for a measly $50 last week. Seriously though, its almost thievery that Canadian, and we all know how we all feel about thieves. Good work, I hope you atleast get the restock and shipping fees returned.

[AZhitman]

Didn't get a dime.

[krash]

They'll never learn, will they?

[ImStricken06]

mhmm... mhm.. mhhmm....

[KimberKenobi]

And (I checked) it's the first Google result...

This does concern me about PayPal's policies... I've only had 1 potential run-in, but fortunately since she received the parcel, PayPal protected me and I got my money and all complaints from her dismissed. It is still good to be aware of the "loopholes" that place the seller at a loss. Especially when receiving the money up front can be proven ineffective :/

[AZhitman]

Exactly.

The fact that this guy was so defensive about his behavior tells me he had shady intentions. Plus, when he called, he referred to the name above as "one of my aliases"... Who the hell has "aliases"? People with something to hide.

The good news is this: He got nothing out of the deal, his local law enforcement is aware of his shenanigans (contacted RCMP who is looking into this as a theft of services crime), everyone knows of his flawed character, and his credit card issuer is aware of this incident now as well.

[krash]

I think the way paypal sees it, you're not out of money. You got your part back so you still have the retail value of the part. What they dont understand is that you spent money that you wouldn't have spent to make a custom part for a customer. So in reality, you just spent money on materials, shipping, and time, for no reason.

[AZhitman]

Correct. That's a good way to look at it.

If we were a huge company, it wouldn't be a big deal. Ultimately, I sold the system at a deep discount, cutting the overall loss to about $400.

As long as people are aware of the potential issues with "Merchant Protection", I've done my job.

[ImStricken06]

did a little research:
http://www.antifraudcentre-centreantifr ... e-eng.html

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/scams-fraudes/rep-sig-eng.htm

[95_240]

Yep. PayPal is a joke. I was a buyer and actually filed a charge-back because I hadn't received my merchandise. Shortly after I received my merchandise and cancelled the charge-back. PayPal would not reverse the charge-back. My bank sent them numerous letters stating that the charge-back was cancelled and I offered to have a three-way call with my bank. There non-existent charge-back department, one I sent tons of emails to and got automated responses, is horrible. I made numerous calls to different departments and finally got in touch with someone that told me they don't really have a charge-back department and that I would have to wait 90 days. If the bank didn't finish the charge-back in 90 days it is ruled that the charge-back is invalid and the seller can get their money. So if someone wants to get something for free it is very easy using a charge-back because PayPal will not defend the seller. I think your best bet is to sue PayPal because you can't defend yourself against the bank. PayPal is the one responsible and since you are in the right PayPal, along with the buyer, is the one essentially stealing your money as well.

Another scam a lot of people do is buy a part using PayPal and once they receive the item they report there card stolen to the bank or say that the charge was unauthorized. They file a charge-back and win. So they end up with the product and get to keep their money.

[ImStricken06]

its even easier to order a part, use it, wait a week or two, and then send back your old one. Paypal will allow you to win the case as long as you have proof of shipping. The seller wont be able to prove that you did a quick swap, so paypal will tell the seller: due to your warranty that you offer, you loose the claim.

[SanoSuKe]

I love the last part. NICO can be a scary place, sometimes. lol

[AZhitman]

Only scary for people who cheat / lie / steal.

[AZhitman]

#1. That didn't take long.

Have fun doing something about it from Canada, you bum.

[MaximA32]

#1. That didn't take long.

Have fun doing something about it from Canada, you bum.

A do what now?

[AZhitman]

Hey Christian - Guess what? Still watching you, you thief. Hope you contract a raging case of herpes, toolbag.

[AZhitman]

#1 in Google searches for your name.

I've got a long memory, douchebag.