Cam options for VH, discuss!

Post by **Mettler** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:40 pm

Here we go, I've got a list of available cam grinds from a company here in NZ. Please check out the specs, help me understand them too, and figure out which would be the most beneficial for street use. I have some idea, but a little clarification could go a long way. Here goes:

Master#: Dur@050": Adv Dur: Camlift: Valvelift:

Std | 177/176 | 240/240 | 217/209 | 368/355Stg1 | 178 | 260/260 | 216 | 368Stg2 | 185 | 272/272 | 227 | 385Stg3 | 182 | 274/276 | 228 | 387Stg4 | 185 | 268/268 | 232 | 395Stg5 | 185 | 268/268 | 245 | 416106X | 187 | 258 | 246 | 398117 | 224 | 295 | 246 | 398

Now I understand the advertised duration basically means how long the valve is open for, and I know what the camlift & valvelift specs mean.

I don't fully understand what Duration @ 050" means, though I've read explanations that say it describes the cam's aggressiveness. How is there actually a 'duration' value at a specific point in the cam's lift? Does it describe how many degrees of duration the cam has left to go once it has opened the valve up by 050", before it is closed again? Or what... Someone edumacate me please.

Also judging by the provided specs, I'd be inclined to think the stage 4 and stage 2 grinds would be the best for street use... but can anyone please confirm what they think of these specs, how they'd perform, what they'd do to the powerband on a VH45, and whether they'd be applicable with factory springs (and inner valvesprings). I'm thinking stage 2 may be a little on the harsh side, better for forced induction perhaps.

Also, there is no discussion of how to set the cams up, what degrees you want the valves to open, how many degrees of overlap etc.

Post by **John Dixon** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:41 pm

Duration @50" is the number of degrees that the cam is lifting more than 50". It's why the figures are always lower then the advertised durations which are typically quoted face to face.

Post by **elwesso** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:09 am

Excellent Mettler! Did he say what the max lift you can run on stock pistons?

Post by **SuperHatch** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:07 am

John Dixon wrote:Duration @50" is the number of degrees that the cam is lifting more than 50". It's why the figures are always lower then the advertised durations which are typically quoted face to face.

Also, if you look at how close the duration and duration @ 0.050" are, you can determine how aggressive the ramp rate is on the cam, which can help determine required spring pressure.

Post by **Mettler** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:07 am

What effect will more ramp rate have on the exhaust note, if any ?

Post by **SuperHatch** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:09 am

Mettler wrote:What effect will more ramp rate have on the exhaust note, if any ?

On the note? Good question...

Post by **Mettler** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:25 am

Well, you know, just the sound in general. I'd imagine it to become more crackly, but then I have a pretty vivid imagination

Post by **SuperHatch** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:05 am

Mettler wrote:Well, you know, just the sound in general. I'd imagine it to become more crackly, but then I have a pretty vivid imagination

I'd imagine it'd get more raspy as well, but I really have no idea...

Post by **elwesso** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:11 am

i think the best wa yto find out is get a set of cams to this bloke and we'll find out the hard way!!!!!!!

Post by **Mettler** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:47 am

Well I've put the hard questions in with him, asking what the most high performance cam is out of the lot (useable on the street), functional with the factory valvetrain and internals.

I will be calling back this afternoon to find out. In the meantime, I will investigate other cam specialists around the country to see what's on offer and for what prices.

Post by **Mettler** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:29 pm

Ok I have the gentleman doing a quote for me, I will call him back tomorrow and find out the specifics of what would work with the factory valvetrain.

In the meantime, he has suggested I price up the cost of having some cam blanks turned from billet, which he can grind to whatever spec I desire. This will eliminate the need to reduce the base circle to achieve new profiles!

Post by **elwesso** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:44 pm

Seems like having cam blanks being made would be pretty pricey, and then add in the cost of having them ground, seems like we're looking at a bit mroe money than anticipated.

for a mild cam, wouldnt a regrind be fine? Certainly im all for it and id probably go with a new cam if I was running huge lift (Youd have to have some decently sized shims) however on this you wouldnt have real big shims....

Post by **Mettler** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:15 pm

Yo Wes, check your e-mail. Making brand new cams isn't going to be hugely expensive.

Post by **elwesso** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:18 pm

Thanks for letting me know, somehow it got caught by my spam filter.... im so excited!

Post by **T45** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:22 pm

AHEM, unless you're emailing neckid pics would you care to share?

Post by **Mettler** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:30 pm

I'm investigating cost and viability of designing and making cam blanks here on the CNC at work, and getting them ground to the most optimal possible profiles that work with the factory valvetrain. The point of this is to avoid regrinds and reduction of base circle & shimming, which ****s with valvetrain geometry and isn't a good thing at high RPM. Being in NZ, I should be able to do this kinda stuff cheap for you guys. I'm saying no more until I have finished pricing it all up, initial pricing will be based on a group buy of 10 sets.

Post by **elwesso** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:43 pm

Right now theres nothing really to share that isnt in this thread, that is interesting anyway....

Post by **T45** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:04 am

lol, yeah i just pickin.

Why oh why in the wide wide world of sports hasn't any company in the entire united states of america done cam grinds and research on the VH? I know there isn't a lot of Q owners that are dying to tune their engines but there has to be someone doing them. Hasn't there?

Post by **SuperHatch** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:27 am

I can tell you that I personally spoke with Brian at Brian Crower about doing this, and he wholeheartedly said it could be done. It was just the price that made it completely worthless to pursue. The cost of setting up his cam gringing machines as well as producing the blanks for a relatively small quantity of cams simply wasn't worth it.

They can do things cheaper down there in NZ, and in this instance, I'm glad they can...

Post by **Mettler** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:35 pm

T45 wrote:Why oh why in the wide wide world of sports hasn't any company in the entire united states of america done cam grinds and research on the VH?

Probably because of the typical attitude that it's a 'piddly little jap crap motor' or something along those lines. Chevs and Fords and Mopars = win, for your average patriotic american hotrodder, and unfortunately this is bread and butter business for performance shops.

Not to worry though, with the combined knowledge that everybody brings to Nico, we're pretty much the #1 source for sharing information and experimental development on these motors.

Post by **T45** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:32 am

Well just to put price into my perspective, my VG33 has 2 cams and they cost $450 usd from Nismo. Regrinds from http://www.schneidercams.com run about $150-250. I emailed them once but never got a response.

I would be willing to pay 500 for regrinds and 800-1000 for new ones usd. just my .02

Post by **PopPop** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:05 am

T45 wrote:Well just to put price into my perspective, my VG33 has 2 cams and they cost $450 usd from Nismo. Regrinds from http://www.schneidercams.com run about $150-250. I emailed them once but never got a response.

I would be willing to pay 500 for regrinds and 800-1000 for new ones usd. just my .02

I'm glad U are willing to pay that much because John D guy in the UK ( Dean) does the VH45DE regrinds for $75.00 each.

Post by **John Dixon** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:22 am

PopPop wrote: I'm glad U are willing to pay that much because John D guy in the UK ( Dean) does the VH45DE regrinds for $75.00 each.

Are you talking about my engine builder?!If so we definitely got our wires crossed, my regrinds were £600UK or about $1100US - as I've said before, everything in the UK costs loads

Post by **PopPop** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:03 pm

John Dixon wrote:
Are you talking about my engine builder?!If so we definitely got our wires crossed, my regrinds were £600UK or about $1100US - as I've said before, everything in the UK costs loads

Did he regrind your cams or ones that he had? Dean at tighecams

Post by **ZedZillaZ32** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:48 pm

You got Oz support aswell

Id prefer new ones over tearing my engine open then shipping, then waiting etc...

Once I start my conversion I prefer it all ready to go

Post by **Ezekial** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:52 pm

Mettler ... find out the closing angles ...

Since you wont be changing the compression ... i would be running the smallest duration (earliest closing intake grind) with the most lift possible

Post by **Mettler** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:38 pm

Yeah that's the plan... but I gotta find out max lift too, otherwise that'll change opening/closing angle etc. Basically, it's gonna be a ****fight to get them right, but I have some help from a couple of pros so it should be ok.

Post by **maxnix** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:25 pm

And all this has to be matched to the intake camshat advance.

If you don't have a VHj on a dynamometer bed, might just be urinating upwind.

Post by **ZedZillaZ32** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:13 pm

will you be trying to make them suitable for both NA and forced induction or focusing on one for max performance?

Post by **John Dixon** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:38 pm

PopPop wrote: Did he regrind your cams or ones that he had? Dean at tighecams

He reground mine.

Cam options for VH, discuss!

Cam options for VH, discuss!

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