CAI disaster : (

[fiveliterbeater]

well after keninAZ posted his results about his car when he made his custom intake and hacked away the airbox and replaced it with a cone filter, i was dying to do the same and so i have.unfortunately, the results i got were the opposite of his. my car has trouble getting up to speed in local city driving (meaning i now have to give it more gas than i had to before) and on the freeway, my car is a complete slug. any attempt to floor it while going faster than 85, the car just struggles very hard and almost just wants to give up. (not to mention accelerating on the onramps which used to be fun, and now it's embarassing)i don't understand, what gives? i'm currently going to repair the factory airbox this weekend and put the factory one back in, but man am i disappointed!i was really hoping to see some good results. does my car maybe need to be calibrated to compensate for the xtra air or is the factory airbox maxed out to be the best possible way for our car to receive air.

anyone wanna take a stab at this dilemma (including you KEN!!! lol)

[the_sauce]

You either failed to plug something in or your maf or throttle body need to be checked. NA cars dont have a set limp mode that is engaged when something isnt right as FI cars do, but they will limit power if something has been disturbed. Check all your plugs.

[fiveliterbeater]

well, there is only one thing to unplug: the MAF meter.......and the motor has only 9k miles on it (was replaced under factory warranty) , i don't think plugs go bad after an intake swap.

[the_sauce]

well, there is only one thing to unplug: the MAF meter.......and the motor has only 9k miles on it (was replaced under factory warranty) , i don't think plugs go bad after an intake swap.

I couldnt tell you exactly what was wrong without seeing hearing driving the car. All I know is that if your car really is struggling as bad as you say it is, it is not because you simply changed from the factory airbox to a cone filter. I have installed intakes on more cars than I can count and the only time a problem arises is when something is unplugged and forgotten to be plugged back in or if something else was previously wrong.

And you would know if one of your cylinders wasnt firing.... Its not quiet...

I wish I was there and could be more help to you. My first suggestion would be to check the maf plug first. If all is well, take the intake and maff off and make sure nothing got on the Maf sensor. If you touched the maf sensor or something got on it(you used a oil based filter like a K&N) that can cause heavy bogging as well.

Hope that helps a little.

[fiveliterbeater]

well i decided to go with an un-oiled filter from AMSOIL. everything else just checks out fine. guess it's a mystery for now.ill be putting my old filter back on for now. as far as the MAF being dirty, would'nt the car throw a code if there was something wrong or if it was getting a false reading?

[the_sauce]

well i decided to go with an un-oiled filter from AMSOIL. everything else just checks out fine. guess it's a mystery for now.ill be putting my old filter back on for now. as far as the MAF being dirty, would'nt the car throw a code if there was something wrong or if it was getting a false reading?

Yes it would throw a code, but I have found that infiniti's CEL is VERY shy compared to the European cars I used to own. I had a plug go out on my M 3 days after I bought it and it threw no cel light, but drove like hell and sounded worse...

Try putting the old system all back in and see if that solves the mystery!!

[fiveliterbeater]

one of my friends just made a statement and is telling me i need to get my ECU reflashed so that my car can read the xtra air coming through the MAF. this doesn't make any sense because one of the board members did his and didn't need any reflash. im confused.

[the_sauce]

Unless your factory air filter was straight clogged and your car was used to reading no to little air coming through, that is not needed. Nissans have VERY efficient factory flow through their intake and exhaust systems.

Best of luck to you with everything man!!

[GJEMD]

To all you "modifiers". its time to realize to spend money on intakes and exhaust systems on the M 45 without making modifications to the computer chip is a fools errand. I find it funny that so many of you buy into such marketing nonsense and that some how the Nissan engineers some how don't get it. The M45 at least the 2003-04 were marketed as luxury "hot rods". There is this little issue between the intake and the exhaust its called VARIABLE VALVE timing. The MAF sends data to the commputer chip that then issues commands to the valve timing which essentially neutralizing most of the effort at changing air movement ie HP. Why don't you install a "tornado" while you're at it.

[fiveliterbeater]

well, i put the stock air intake box back on the car and everything is fine again. maybe someday when i get the money for a tune, i'll go ahead and redo the intake.

[joker350gt]

can you post pics by chance?

[fiveliterbeater]

pics of what? my intake?

[New2Import]

How did you put the stock intake back on? If you done it like Ken you had to hack it up. You much have done something wrong.

[ken in az]

To all you "modifiers". its time to realize to spend money on intakes and exhaust systems on the M 45 without making modifications to the computer chip is a fools errand. I find it funny that so many of you buy into such marketing nonsense and that some how the Nissan engineers some how don't get it.

Really? I find it funny you buy into your way of thinking as well. Good thing my marketing ploy worked so well that way I could make so much money off of fiveliter - I'm rich!

The M45 at least the 2003-04 were marketed as luxury "hot rods". There is this little issue between the intake and the exhaust its called VARIABLE VALVE timing. The MAF sends data to the commputer chip that then issues commands to the valve timing which essentially neutralizing most of the effort at changing air movement ie HP. Why don't you install a "tornado" while you're at it.

All along it was the variable valve timing that has been holding the engine back from making power? Could you explain that a little bit more? Does the valve not open as far when you add an intake is that what is happening? Please tell us!!!

Oh, and Fiveliter - I hope my email to you helped - after reading this post it really sounds like you did something wrong but not "fatal" to your engine. it is very possible you cut to close to the MAF sensor which is causing it to read non laminar airflow.

If you want to snap a few pics and email them to me I'd be happy to try and help out. I can tell you that my car is a blast to drive up over 85mph and keeps pulling. I hope we can get it working for you as well as it did for me but without seeing pictures I really can't help.

[fiveliterbeater]

i cut off the MAF tube part as far as it would go. i actually cut it so close to the airbox that i started to dig into the box itself. and instead of glueing the two pieces together, i just used turbo hose and hoseclamps to joint the cone filter adapter to the MAF part i just cut off. in the meantime i already put everything back together and obviously since i destroyed the box, i used that "foam in a can" from Home depot and "glued" the box and MAF housing back together. i had to let it dry overnight for it to work. i'm just really sad cause i was really hoping to get the car a little more faster.

[fiveliterbeater]

i was thinking, was i supposed to glue the MAF housing that i cut away from the airbox to the adapter instead of using turbo hose? i only used about 2 inches of it to join the adaper to the piece that i had cut off. could that be the problem?
Modified by fiveliterbeater at 3:51 PM 3/30/2009

[ken in az]

i was thinking, was i supposed to glue the MAF housing that i cut away from the airbox to the adapter instead of using turbo hose? i only used about 2 inches of it to join the adaper to the piece that i had cut off. could that be the problem?

Modified by fiveliterbeater at 3:51 PM 3/30/2009

I sent you that email with the parts list from infinitipartsusa.com I'm thinking it was the turbo hose causing the turbulence or that the 2 pieces weren't perfectly parallel....possibly both even. There is no other real reason why it worked for me and not for you.

If all else fails it won't be too expensive to go back to stock, but I'd be interested in seeing a picture or 2 to see if there is something else not right happening.

[GJEMD]

All along it was the variable valve timing that has been holding the engine back from making power? Could you explain that a little bit more? Does the valve not open as far when you add an intake is that what is happening? Please tell us!!!

Lets see where do I start. We can agree the max valve lift is fixed by the cam lobe. The part you seem to be missing is the "duration" of valve lift.

The DURATION is the VARIABLE with VVT engines. VVT is always set by the factory to be a compromise between performance,emissions,and efficiency.

This VKE engine I'm sure is capable of 400 HP with a Chip to advance the timing and duration of valve open time with no intake or exhaust mods.. The timing is surely retarded for emmision reasons. No amount of air from an intake with a MAF will over power this computer module. Again Intake and exhaust mods without Computer modification is a FOOLS ERRAND

[nadzak]

Is there anyone out there who can mod the computers for our M35's? Or better yet, is there anyone who sells new ones?

[ken in az]

Lets see where do I start. We can agree the max valve lift is fixed by the cam lobe. The part you seem to be missing is the "duration" of valve lift.

Nope not missing anything there - if anyone knows me I have extensive camshaft knowledge especially when we start discussing duration. Here's a short lesson that maybe you've missed before making your post. Adding duration generally increases flow for better high rpm power but makes for dirty emissions in the lower rpm range with poorer idle quality and drivability. This reason is why OE Manufactures use VVT, V-TEC, etc...to maintain emmision standards/better drivability at low rpm/low load conditions and durring the high load/high rpm situations where the emission laws don't apply can switch to a more aggresive cam profile/durration to gain engine output.

The DURATION is the VARIABLE with VVT engines. VVT is always set by the factory to be a compromise between performance,emissions,and efficiency.

Really? VVT stands for Variable Valve Timing - thanks captain obvious Actually it's a comprimise for drivability - just like the bud light commercials talking about drinkability

This VKE engine I'm sure is capable of 400 HP with a Chip to advance the timing and duration of valve open time with no intake or exhaust mods.. The timing is surely retarded for emmision reasons. No amount of air from an intake with a MAF will over power this computer module. Again Intake and exhaust mods without Computer modification is a FOOLS ERRAND

Sorry, I have to disagree with you on this one. Per the FSM the VVT system is controlled by a solenoid actualted oil control valve. This valve is opperated with battery voltage via computer controlled duty cycle based on engine speed, throttle position, MAF, IAT, and a few other sensors. It opperated to a max of 70% duty cycle because if battery voltage were applied for longer than 5 seconds it would comprimise the reliability of the solenoid to actuate potentially damaging the unit. At 70% duty cycle the durration of the camshaft is advanced a predetermined amount set by the mechanical limits of the control unit and the camshaft profile which in turn increases the duration of the "camshafts" since there are 2 (one intake and one exhaust). The main point here is that the VVT is being actuated to it's fullest extent in stock trim giving the engine the full capability to make the most power on the stock camshaft profiles. The real gain from being able to tune the VVT with a programmer is to bring it in sooner enhancing mid range power production.Based on what your above statement that increaseing airflow to an engine will not increase engine output is inherently wrong because the engine is an air pump and the easier to get the air in and out - makes for a more efficient process and increasing efficiency will definitely increase the power making "potential" - given that you keep your air/fuel ratio and ignition timing in check. This is the basis for ECU reprogramming.

I can keep going if anyone wants more clarification on the subject, again my posts can com off as a personal attack but it is most definitely is not. I just cannot stand when an il-informed person makes a blatently obvious wrong statement. We are all here in good fun and because we love our cars for what they are and what we can make them. I and I'm sure there are others that would like their car to make more power and that is the aim of more than 70% of my posts - cool?

[ken in az]

Is there anyone out there who can mod the computers for our M35's? Or better yet, is there anyone who sells new ones?

Yes, contact UpRev for a reprogram and contact several JDM companies (Impul, Mines, etc) to import a fully reprogrammed ECU.

[fiveliterbeater]

....hey you know what just dawned on me? i think the reason that i may be losing power is because i'm improving the intake while keeping the stock exhaust and the car may be losing power. keep in mind that i made the car a true dual and the exhaust flow has been slightly improved but i maintained the stock mufflers. oh and by the way, i redid the intake again and this time i glued the MAF tube to the adapter and i think it works cause the car seems to respond a little better than it used to with the stock airbox. only problem though is that the adapter is little "bigger" than the MAF tube, so when you look straight through them while they are glued together, u can see a "lip" all the way around on the inside. i'm going to take a dremel tool and sand down that lip so that it doesn't create any turbulence inside the intake.

[GJEMD]

[QUOTE=ken in az]The main point here is that the VVT is being actuated to it's fullest extent in stock trim giving the engine the full capability to make the most power on the stock camshaft profiles.

I believe this to be unsubstantiated. You want us to believe that Nissan/infiniti set the VVT to max actuation only to choke off the air flow with a restricted intake and exhaust system.It seems your arguing both ways. Most all commercially available VVT engines are not set at max actuation because of emissions. Retarding this VVT allows for complete burning of fuel and less emissions. If you reprogram the VVT and open up the intake and exhaust you will for sure maximize power and increase emissions and decrease fuel efficiency. And you should attempt to make your point with less drama. Its clear you don't like being challenged. Mr camshaft

[ken in az]

The main point here is that the VVT is being actuated to it's fullest extent in stock trim giving the engine the full capability to make the most power on the stock camshaft profiles.

I believe this to be unsubstantiated. You want us to believe that Nissan/infiniti set the VVT to max actuation only to choke off the air flow with a restricted intake and exhaust system.It seems your arguing both ways. Most all commercially available VVT engines are not set at max actuation because of emissions. Retarding this VVT allows for complete burning of fuel and less emissions. If you reprogram the VVT and open up the intake and exhaust you will for sure maximize power and increase emissions and decrease fuel efficiency. And you should attempt to make your point with less drama. Its clear you don't like being challenged. Mr camshaft

I"m just quoting the FSM so if I'm wron so is the FSM. I don't try to make people believe ideas, just facts.

Also our engine only controls the intake cam, the exhaust cam is fixed.

And emmisions are not recorded at full throttle so there would be no reson for the factory to tone down the power at WOT.

So you want less drama then maybe you shouldn't call people a fool in caps

lastly, just stop arguing with me and we'll get along just fine

[ken in az]

....hey you know what just dawned on me? i think the reason that i may be losing power is because i'm improving the intake while keeping the stock exhaust and the car may be losing power. keep in mind that i made the car a true dual and the exhaust flow has been slightly improved but i maintained the stock mufflers. oh and by the way, i redid the intake again and this time i glued the MAF tube to the adapter and i think it works cause the car seems to respond a little better than it used to with the stock airbox. only problem though is that the adapter is little "bigger" than the MAF tube, so when you look straight through them while they are glued together, u can see a "lip" all the way around on the inside. i'm going to take a dremel tool and sand down that lip so that it doesn't create any turbulence inside the intake.

Mine has the lip and it works fine...also I don't have a full exhaust, still on stock resonators and mufflers, and I got my results at the track before I did the X pipe.

Oh and the stock resonators are actually pretty good aside from them being less than 2". they are perforated core just like a magnaflow muffler so one could still use them and not loss too much power. Still not sure about the stock mufflers though.

[mcrews]

Thought I would join the frey.......

02 Q45. have done the following:159,000 miles255/45/18 instead of 245/45/18 (stock size) on stock rims.40 psi when on the road 37 psi around town.Removed rear suitcase dual in dual out muffler.Straight pipes back.wired exhaust valve open (valve interacts w/ rear muffler)Removed resonator.....Q has just one right after the cats.Removed lower 'wart' from airbox.Ran 3" sealed tubing to front bumper slot.added a 21/2 duct to front of airbox.left rest of intake stock.

result:26.3 mpg on 110 mile trip avge speed 70.2. level freeway sacramento to San Jose.There is a slight growl to the engine and I plan on installing an X pipe soon.

THe chips in these cars can 'learn' how you drive. I tend to drive for MPG so I am sure the chips (especially the trans chip) have made adjustments.

ps top speed is 129mph and then I let up....it was still pulling!!!just my 2 cents

[GJEMD]

Still I think my car is exceptionally slow running a 14.7 at 96 stock and with a heat soaked intake it ran 14.6 at 97. I thought they were supposed to run closer to 14 flat and 100mph stock.

It was warmer out the last time out so technically I would need to calculate the air density to see really how effective the air intake was. either way I'm faster and it sounds really cool so I'm happy. Ken in AZ

Well the truth hurts. Your M is slower than stock 1/4 mile times submitted on this forum, but it sounds COOL so your happy.Yes I'm sure you've persuade no one of your FOOLS ERRAND

[szh]

THe chips in these cars can 'learn' how you drive. I tend to drive for MPG so I am sure the chips (especially the trans chip) have made adjustments.

The transmission TCU adjusts within 15 minutes of driving ... does not take too long fortunately!

Z

[ken in az]

Still I think my car is exceptionally slow running a 14.7 at 96 stock and with a heat soaked intake it ran 14.6 at 97. I thought they were supposed to run closer to 14 flat and 100mph stock.

It was warmer out the last time out so technically I would need to calculate the air density to see really how effective the air intake was. either way I'm faster and it sounds really cool so I'm happy. Ken in AZ

Well the truth hurts. Your M is slower than stock 1/4 mile times submitted on this forum, but it sounds COOL so your happy.Yes I'm sure you've persuade no one of your FOOLS ERRAND

today is your lucky day - I'm not going to spend time to make you look like an idiot since my mother in law's house was broken into last night while she was still in it. Too pissed to do anything right now

[fiveliterbeater]

well i just wanted to give an update: it seems that after much debating and research, i think the problem lies in the fact that my car is suffering to the fact that i switched over from the factory X pipe to true duals. i think some of the board members were right in stating that true duals are not the best set-up for our cars (performance-wise).i am now going to switch out the true duals and install a Magnaflow X-pipe that i just purchased today. i am going to cut-out all the 1" 7/8 piping and replace it all with 2 1/2 inch piping from the cats all the way to the factory muffler. doing some more research, there is probably a reason that most V8's have a factory H pipe or factory X pipe. stay tuned for results.......