CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
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ska69
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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use? (Margus)

Postby ska69 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:27 am

no progress yet...


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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby yohnp » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:55 pm

what about

ca18 trans + ka bellhousing = win?

for a ka24de

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use? (

Postby Margus » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:57 am

ska69 wrote:no progress yet...
So tell us, is it a match :)

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use? (

Postby blownhemi » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:26 pm

Margus wrote:
ska69 wrote:no progress yet...
So tell us, is it a match :)
My transmission comes apart next week, if all goes according to plan (nothing went according to plan about this build so far, FYI :) ). We'll see then if the rebuild kit fits.

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby blownhemi » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:37 pm

Margus, enable PMs in your profile, if you expect answers... ;)

DTS-BK133BWS - for the S13 240SX, this is the kit I've ordered
DTS-BK133AWS - going by the model years and model designations on the page in the OP, is still think this is for the USM S12 200SX. ska69, I don't know if you've ordered this in the end, and what has come of it...

Kit included a bunch of synchro rings, 6 bearings, some oil seals, and a paper gasket for the front cover. If I don't forget, I'll shoot some pics tomorrow.

Still couldn't get around to take the transmission apart, though... but here's some info I've cobbled together mostly from nissan4u.com, and FSMs. Pointing towards, that the kit I've ordered, DTS-BK133BWS, will more likely than not will only be a partial match for the Euro CA gearbox. Yay.

http://gtlamateurfest.uw.hu/synchro/synchro_pn.htm
So, going strictly by part numbers:
1st & 2nd synchros match
3rd & 4th doesn't
5th synchro matches
But... KA 2nd = EuroCA 2nd & 3rd, so I can either have a new 2nd or 3rd, depending on which one is worse.
Bearings mostly match, with the exception of one, but that incorrect one I'll just get from a local SKF or Koyo dealer. I'd advise you do the same about bearings, and just order synchros. If possible, piece together a kit that will definitely match your CA gearbox.
Or order the KA kit, find a KA trans. locally, rebuild it, and swap bellhousings. :)


In any case, FS5W71C my S.

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby Margus » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:51 pm

Many thanks to you Hemi. :dblthumb:
Let me get this strait. I have euro ca18det, so I have multi piece 2nd ring and BWS includes this. But on the other hand, if you see this drawing http://nissan4u.com/parts/200sx/el_s13/ ... tration_2/ you see, that the 1st and 2nd ring are larger, than the 3rd and 4th like in the AWS kit but the parts nr. doesn´t match? :(

So far we know
BWS: AWS: (ska69, you have also euro ca18, maybe few words?)
1. Jes 1. No
2. Jes 2. No
3. No 3. No
4. No 4. No
5. Jes 5. Jes

I defenitly need 2nd, 3rd and 4th ring, but which kit includes 3rd and 4th? :gotme

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby blownhemi » Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:15 pm

Margus wrote:Many thanks to you Hemi. :dblthumb:
Let me get this strait. I have euro ca18det, so I have multi piece 2nd ring and BWS includes this. But on the other hand, if you see this drawing http://nissan4u.com/parts/200sx/el_s13/ ... tration_2/ you see, that the 1st and 2nd ring are larger, than the 3rd and 4th like in the AWS kit but the parts nr. doesn´t match? :(

So far we know
BWS: AWS: (ska69, you have also euro ca18, maybe few words?)
1. Jes 1. No
2. Jes 2. No
3. No 3. No
4. No 4. No
5. Jes 5. Jes

I defenitly need 2nd, 3rd and 4th ring, but which kit includes 3rd and 4th? :gotme
Don't take the illustrations too seriously... they are not always dead-on accurate, or to scale.

I think it's hopeless to find a kit that matches the Euro CA 100% (apart from phoning your friendly local Nissan dealership). You could ask the site, if they would piece together a kit for you, and then ask for two KA 240SX 2nd gear synchros, as those part numbers are the same. BUT: part numbers are the same for the EuroCA 2nd and 3rd synchro, but one of them is supposed to have a double ringed synchro, the other not. How can they be the same part number, then?
I think I'm sufficiently confused about the matter to not think about it any further, at least not until I have the tranny apart.

I wonder if the reason for ska69 not reporting in is that he is out there enjoying the hell out of his fresh, rebuilt transmission.

And, btw, this is what I got.
Image
6 ball bearings
1 needle bearing
2 oil seals
6 synchros
I presume bottom middle and right make up the double 2nd syncho, as the middle one fits nicely inside the right one. Top middle and bottom left look like they are the same (3rd and 4th).

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby ska69 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:04 am

sorry mates,

I just decided to hold of my transmission rebuild as I recently restored my ol' rusty shell to a at last restored condition and therefor don't have money for a tranny rebuild kit at this point :( I need to put back in the interior and wire up the chassis, and then I'll look into the tranny rebuild part.

Blownhemi, I wish I will have a freshly rebuilt transmission some day :)

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby ska69 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:55 am

If anyone is interested, I just bought a used ca18det tranny, which seems to be in good condition. drained oil had no metal flakes, shaft spins nicely...However I'm still a bit concerned about its condition - all in all it's a used part.

Is there any way to check the condition on the gearbox whilst it's not bolted up to the engine?

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby blownhemi » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:48 am

A short update now, one year after we rebuilt the transmission, in case someone still follows this. :)

Synchros 1,4,5 fit without problems and were a match for my Euro (?, see later) gearbox.
Both of the gearboxes I have had double synchros on BOTH 2 and 3. This suggests either the FSM being wrong, or both of those gearboxes are the Outside-Europe model. So I lacked one of the double synchos, as the kit only had one double synchro (see pic). The double synchro was a match for both 2nd and 3rd, though. So we put half of the new double synchro into 2nd, the other into 3rd, depending on which looked the worst.

Bearing were all matches, but that didn't come as a surprise.

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby ska69 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:31 pm

We're following silently lol :)

Interesting stuff! Maybe I should try rebuilding the spare used gearbox and see if it's a match with your results...but on the other hand a used ca18 gearbox costs around 50 bucks locally and I also have an auto gearbox laying around I might be just to lazy to get into the rebuild. lol

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby CaDet s13 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:56 pm

Ok, so what i have gathered from reading this post over a few times is that the kit that blownhemi got works fine except that i would have to order another double syncro for it to be a complete rebuild kit?

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby blownhemi » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:50 am

CaDet s13 wrote:Ok, so what i have gathered from reading this post over a few times is that the kit that blownhemi got works fine except that i would have to order another double syncro for it to be a complete rebuild kit?
For both *MY* CA transmissions, this would be true, but I'm not even sure, which region they are from, I would've guessed Europe, since I'm in Europe, but then the FSM would be wrong about the Euro synchros. So the only definite conclusion I was able to draw, is that I can't draw any definite conclusion. What you will need will depend entirely on which transmission you have, and the only certain way to tell that is to pull the bellhousing, and have a look-see at 2nd and 3rd.

But for someone in the US, I wouldn't bother with this rebuild. You're supposed to have heaps of KA transmissions at junkyards, get one with low mileage, good shape, and swap the bellhousing over. I would have much rather done that, as it was a PITA to get the transmission apart, and put it together w/o any experience on the matter, and just general tools. Even managed to damage a gear in the process (a couple of backside edges broke off), and had to have a left-hand nut custom made (not expensive, just had to find a capable machinist with a lathe very quickly), because the stock one lost its threads.

Or even if you decide on a rebuild, I'd still rather get a KA box, and do that, the kit should be a 100% match for that. The KA S13 was a single region car, less chance to mess up FSMs and part no.s, as opposed to the CA S13, which was exported to loads of regions, in loads of trims.
Plus, taller KA 5th, and I'd always go with a taller 5th, especially for a turbo car.

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby float_6969 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:51 am

I didn't think the KA had double synchro's on 2nd and 3rd though?

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby blownhemi » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:37 am

float_6969 wrote:I didn't think the KA had double synchro's on 2nd and 3rd though?
No, I don't think they do, either.
- the kit is specifically for 240SX, and only contains one double synchro
- nissan4u (FAST) says only 2nd is double
- FSM says only 2nd is double

But as for CA trannies, I guess you can't know for sure.

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby CaDet s13 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:37 pm

Well it would be nice to do the ka swap. Since like yoy said it does habe a taller 5th gear but that option would cost me like three times as much money cause id have to get the tranny and then i would still rebuild that one too. I have a shop that will do the rebuild for me so i dont have to worry about screwing up the internals doing it myself. So in order to save some cash i think it would be better for me to get the rebuild you got and order a seperate double syncro? Also you said everything else in the kit you said matches up right? But then again my gears could be worn too and at that point it would probly just be a better idea to use the ka tranny... And as far as having tons of ka's in junk yards i wish that were the case, the U pull it by my house only had one 240 in it the last time i was there like a month ago and even if i were to get a tranny from a junkyard i would still do a full rebuild on it. So either way i look at it i am SoL lol

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby float_6969 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:19 pm

I didn't rebuild my transmission, but I had it rebuilt locally by a reputable shop.

If it helps, I took them the CA transmission, and the KA transmission and told them I wanted the CA transmission rebuilt, but that it never came in an American equivalent and that they'd have to be creative to get the needed parts. I also told them I wanted the taller 5th gear out of the KA transmission installed into the CA transmission and I wanted all brand new synchros.

They fussed a bit and said they couldn't make any promises. A week later they called and said it was done.

It cost me $800 for basically a brand new transmission (they replaced a couple of worn gears, 1st and 2nd IIRC) with the taller KA 5th gear. I've had no complaints.

I bring this up because it tells me that the parts are available and this is do-able. I hope this helps.

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby CaDet s13 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:52 pm

Well, float, you definately gave me a sign of hope and that is quite helpful. So hopefully the shop i bring it you will be just as helpful as yours was. Thanks for the info

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby blownhemi » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:34 am

About the "rebuild":
https://plus.google.com/photos/10036282 ... 8074005617

As for kit quality. Bearings were Nachi, so I wouldn't worry about the bearings, and if they put in the effort of sourcing quality bearings, they probably sourced quality synchros as well.

My tranny bearings make a slight grinding noise now, but that is - in my opinion - entirely my mistake. I ran it with heavy duty 85W140 oil for 1.5 years (in a ridiculous attempt to save the gears from shock wear). When it was a colder outside, I couldn't start the engine, unless I disengaged the clutch, and if it has started, and I let off the clutch, it almost stalled. That's how heavy an oil that was. Fast gearchanges were impossible as well, all I got was grinding. With all that, I imagine it's no wonder that the bearings make a noise after just ~3000 miles, they didn't get the lubrication they needed. Don't do this, use the right oil for your climate.

Since then, I've switched to 75W90 Castrol something. Fast (for me) gear changes are now possible. (unless I shift above 6800, because then my clutch gets stuck :) ) Some soft bearing grinding still can be heard, though, the damage is done.

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby medium » Tue May 26, 2020 3:31 am

Hi everyone,

I read this entire post a couple of times but I just wanted to clarify some points (if you guys still remember information about these rebuild kits).

I took apart my FS5W71C from a 89 200SX S13 european model (from Switzerland). I checked, I do have a 3-piece synchro on the 2nd only. In addition, 1st and 2nd synchro sizes are the same, as well as the 3rd + 4th. So far, the FSM was correct in my case.

@blownhemi (sorry, can't PM you, I'm a new member), the kit you ordered was DTS-BK133BWS and seems to includ everything I need for my rebuild. You stated the 2nd synchro was a multi piece one, but does it contain 2 or 3 pieces ?

Thanks for your the help !
Mat

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby float_6969 » Tue May 26, 2020 6:52 am

Unfortunately, he hasn't been on NICO in over a year, so I doubt he'll respond to this. What I gathered from the picture he posted was that the 2nd gear synchro was a 2 piece.

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby blownhemi » Thu May 28, 2020 9:28 am

Hi there,

my memory is quite fuzzy on most of it now, had to re-read everyting I wrote, and look up the pictures I took. :)

I may have got the terminology wrong. My 2nd and 3rd synchros were made up of 3 pieces, but only two of them were brass. The third, middle ring was silvery looking, probably steel, and did not look like a wear item. I was focused on the brass pieces very much, hence why I called it 2-piece, but that would be a 3-piece synchro, then?

In any case, that middle steel(?) ring was not part of the kit, we reused the old one. So you should be set with that kit. I'm kind of surprised it is still available 10 years later.

(I'm still getting notifications of subscribed threads, by the way, but I've slowly stopped posting, then slowly stopped lurking as well, along with how my enthusiasm, energy, and patience for the car slowly faded away. :( )

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby medium » Thu May 28, 2020 11:30 am

Hey,

Thanks for the word, appreciated !

So, we do have same config on this multipiece synchros ! I'll see if rebuild kit comes with the middle steel ring or not, let you know guys !

Here is a couple of pics of the old sync ring, maybe for a future reference.
Attachments
IMG_20200523_113230.jpg
IMG_20200523_113005.jpg

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Re: CA18DET transmission rebuild kit ... which one to use?

Postby blownhemi » Thu May 28, 2020 11:46 pm

Here are the pics I took from the teardown/rebuild, maybe it helps someone.
transmission teardown and rebuild
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