CA18DET (2.0L) Stroker Crank

[sjbsuperman1425]

It was discussed before in another thread, but i figure it deserves its own for easier searching.

Spool Imports has a 2.0L stroker crank FCW for the CA18DET arriving this month! Im not sure on the price, but i just e-mailed them asking about a few things im looking into, so i will report back with the price and stuff on the cranks asap.

but what does everyone think about it? Would a stroker it be worth it or no? Discuss please

[boost_boy]

Most members can't even get their cars to run right, let alone they have the funds to upgrade the components that need upgrading. I'm sorry guys, emanage is a poor man's band-aid and you will never hear me offer any input on it because it will never be good enough to suit your specific tastes, so you are on your own.

You guys want to build power, the ingredients are simple: engine management, tuning, and boost. You don't want to spend money on these things, don't even think about stroking your engines. You want bragging rights to say you own a CA20DET, you are already doing it for the wrong reason. A standard bore CA18DET will get you what you want if some of you would pay attention to some of the info given on how to achieve your specific goals. If you're a know-it-all, you really don't need this forum and good luck on your endeavors.

So in closing, stroking to 2.0 is a no-no . Get the most out of what you have and learn some of the things needed to help you achieve your specific goals. And in the end end once you've gathered said knowledge and you still want to move-up in displacement, at least you will know the basics of the CA application.

Dee

[sjbsuperman1425]

i dont plan on stroking it, i just made this thread for others to view and for everyone to discuss, but i do think you hit the nail on the head Dee.

[themadscientist]

The CA18 is already overstroked. Decks too short as it is, I wouldn't want to make the rod angle worse.

[NUT-CSE]

Well what about using a CA20 block? Its got a 20mm taller deck.

I have in my possesion a Tomei CA20 crank and a CA20 block. I will need to get some Mitsubishi 4G63 rods and Honda B20 pistons to make the whole setup work.

The CA18 has a rod ratio of 1.61 and a CA20 block/crank with the above mentioned combination would create a rod ratio of 1.7 and from my understanding a higher rod ratio gives lower side wall loading. Correct me if im wrong here.

[themadscientist]

The CA20 block must be modified for the DOHC timing belt tensioner, the head bolt holes bored up to accept the bigger 18 head bolts, and it's weak.

The pin boss can only be raised so high in the piston and at the expense of the top ring land. The CA rods are short because the block's deck height is short. They are quite angular almost immediately as the piston moves away from TDC. That is not an efficient way to transfer force.

By stroking a motor that is already having this problem you make the rod angle even worse. The added friction will cost power and wear the piston skirts and bores quicker than the shorter stroke 18 crank.

The 20 block is better only in that it's taller and this helps a great deal but that is offset by the problems I mentioned. I bet an NA DOHC headed CA20 would be a real sweet engine. Boosted, I would be concerned.

I offer this simple metaphor.

Imagine a trailer. You stand in front of it, pick it up by the hitch and push it straight back. It goes back, all your force is applied directly in a very efficient manner.Now, same situation. This time however you stand to the right of the hitch, pick it up and push it 15 degrees off center. It goes back but it's more difficult and the hitch pushes to the left.

You are seeing what I am suggesting, inefficiency and if there is something preventing the sideways movement friction against that surface.

This is why many people tout long rods as making power. Not everybody agrees though; Smokey Yunick and Grumpy Jenkins never saw eye to eye on this and they were far smarter than us in this area.

To my self-taught "if it works do it" mind though, the evidence seems pretty damming. Couple that with having never seen a stroked CA make more power than a stock throw, I am not enamoured with the whole CA stroker idea.

[dash]

if u haven't 'maxed out' the 1.8L, why even consider a 2.0 money pit ?want a torquey 4cyl ? this company nissan, makes a KA24DE... put it back in. Won't find a better "deal". Countless proven combos available.2L CA.... is pi$$in in the wind, at best. Can o' worms

where did the emanage bit come in ?Anyway, several 300+hp street CA18s tuned via emanage blue. 1st time seen it used was on sxoc years ago. Daily driven, T3 @23psi iirc. 300 was all the turbo & injector supported, so I see no reason more power couldn't be made using blue... as folks done with other motors.My blue came from a buddy who ET 7.7 in 1/8th ~3500 pounds, stock motor. Not bad. As with any tuning device, results are directly proportional to users' understanding exactly what they are doing.Better goods out there, no doubt... but EM can/has produced "decent" results

[boost_boy]

if u haven't 'maxed out' the 1.8L, why even consider a 2.0 money pit ?want a torquey 4cyl ? this company nissan, makes a KA24DE... put it back in. Won't find a better "deal". Countless proven combos available.2L CA.... is pi$$in in the wind, at best. Can o' worms

where did the emanage bit come in ?Anyway, several 300+hp street CA18s tuned via emanage blue. 1st time seen it used was on sxoc years ago. Daily driven, T3 @23psi iirc. 300 was all the turbo & injector supported, so I see no reason more power couldn't be made using blue... as folks done with other motors.My blue came from a buddy who ET 7.7 in 1/8th ~3500 pounds, stock motor. Not bad. As with any tuning device, results are directly proportional to users' understanding exactly what they are doing.Better goods out there, no doubt... but EM can/has produced "decent" results

Emanage came up because it is a unit that's discussions are starting to lurk and it also was used to support the rest of my post. CA20DET= Waste of $$$s. You want big power, don't turn to the emanage nor the super afc as most will blow-up their precious engines and ultimately not have the money to repair them. Emanage may work for some, but hasn't been proven to be a system that's manageable with the CA.

Dee

[sjbsuperman1425]

yea i thought the E-Manage was cool until i looked more into NIStune which is cheaper and more simple. I plan on running that later on. as for the Crankshaft, i got an e-mail back from Spool Imports in Australia. The cranks are custom billet, and are some in the $1800 AUD ($1300 USD), incase anyone wants the price, which i highly doubt now lol

btw, their engine rebuild kits (CP Pistons, Spool Rods, ARP rod bolts, ACL Main and Rod Bearings) are $1500 US

[Fleemer]

they should make a normal crank fully balanced/forged and lighter weight

or a destroke for higher revs :P

But again, ca owners are cheap :P

[float_6969]

If anybody needs the flywheel that goes with the tomei crankshaft, I've got a brand new one.

[NUT-CSE]

If anybody needs the flywheel that goes with the tomei crankshaft, I've got a brand new one.

And how much would such a flywheel be?

[dash]

Quote »You want big power, don't turn to the emanage nor the super afc as most will blow-up their precious engines and ultimately not have the money to repair them.[/quote]really depends on the definition of "big power"If u blow up a motor with a SAFC or EM.... u will with a standalone as well imo.

Quote »Emanage may work for some, but hasn't been proven to be a system that's manageable with the CA.[/quote]If it works for some... those "others" would be user error, wouldn't it ?20+ psi daily for 2+ years on one, and several maxing out their T28/440cc setup @300+ is not proof enough ?EM + T3/T4 @25psi + fuel to support it would then flirt with 400 imoMy buddy had to be making considerable grunt with the EM blue to propell his daily driven stock RB powered pig to 11sec status. In fact, he offered his injectors and to tune/install for free... "lets see what that li'l ol CA could do".I declined, as I won't learn to tune like that. Was tempting tho.To sum it up.... a mail order "chip" (that doesn't live map fuel & ignition), yet has a place.... so does an EM (that can)

Quote »they should make a normal crank fully balanced/forged and lighter weight or a destroke for higher revs[/quote]Why in the world would any CA18DET enthusiast spend money to go backwards ? Lots of CA beasts redline @8000, with obviously enough torque to deliver the goods. Revving higher won't make them any quicker.Only thing revs will accelerate is wear.... and your next rebuild date

[themadscientist]

Why in the world would any CA18DET enthusiast spend money to go backwards ? Lots of CA beasts redline @8000, with obviously enough torque to deliver the goods. Revving higher won't make them any quicker.Only thing revs will accelerate is wear.... and your next rebuild date

horsepower = (torque x speed)/5252

[r34 gtr]

Revving higher always means you can make more power. How do you think those 600cc bikes make 120hp? How do the F1 guys pull 850+bhp out of a N/A 3L? Revs.

[boost_boy]

I really don't visit SXOC, so I really wouldn't know what others with CA18s let alone being managed by emanage are achieving with these systems. Agreed, in the fact that users play a big part in their catastrophic failures, but there's some systems to blame as well. Software glitches, blah, blah! but a user should be able to identify when something isn't right with his/her engine's funtionality.

Dee

[float_6969]

And how much would such a flywheel be?

I emailed you.

[dash]

if *higher peak hp* translated to a quicker car, nobody would ever race or want/need anything more than a 1L. Torque is essential, excessive revs r not.Our toyota clubmembers have classic examples of 10,000+rpm boosted 4AG.For instance, two perfect examples of fast turbo 20V FWD corollas;Quickest race car gone 10.5, revs past 10,000 (then split cylinder walls just like this one & others have; http://www.sdsefi.com/features/jan064ag.htm )Full street car gone 10.8, *considerably heavier*, stock head/cams, 8000rpmso what good is the higher revving... besides to part suppliers & tow trucks ?

bolt on the biggest turbo u can fit underhood, slip in the wildest cams, you'll hit the highest peak hp and rev your "street" CA18 to the moon. It still doesn't guaranty lesser setups won't eat u alive in a sprint

[Coupe_Devil]

Word. CA19DET POWER. All I did was bore .40 over and .30 over pistons. stock bottom end. way better power band. i see no need for a stroker. I made mine just a tad undersquare for boost purposes. of course, my horespower goals are a lot less. I'm fine at 270-285 WHP.

[themadscientist]

Torque is essential, excessive revs r not.

Then why buy the CA, it doesn't have any, neither does the 4A. It's like wanting a tall busty girl, and taking a short skinny girl, breaking her legs and stretching the femurs to get some height, and slapping 4" heels on her for the rest, then shoving implants in her chest and butt to give her a profile. In the end you are left with a freak that doesn't have the quality of what you really wanted and now lacks the reliability it had before.

The Tomei 2.0 kit was out for years and I have seen no proof in print, first hand or anecdotal that one ever outperformed a stock stroke CA. The engine doesn't have torque except with perfect turbo selection. You want torque get an SR or a KA. The CA need boost not stroke.

[boost_boy]

Then why buy the CA, it doesn't have any, neither does the 4A. It's like wanting a tall busty girl, and taking a short skinny girl, breaking her legs and stretching the femurs to get some height, and slapping 4" heels on her for the rest, then shoving implants in her chest and butt to give her a profile. In the end you are left with a freak that doesn't have the quality of what you really wanted and now lacks the reliability it had before.

The Tomei 2.0 kit was out for years and I have seen no proof in print, first hand or anecdotal that one ever outperformed a stock stroke CA. The engine doesn't have torque except with perfect turbo selection. You want torque get an SR or a KA. The CA need boost not stroke.

Agreed on your point that the CA needs boost; almost as if it's a boost addict . I've seen built 4Ags with a 60-1 blower and my god that thing was a slug out the hole. It took forever to wind-up that turbocharger and this was on a RWD GTS with a custom manifold. A 60-1 on a CA18 is bit laggy as well, but when it comes on and granted you have the supporting cast to welcome that kind of boost, it's a wicked burst.

Dee

[themadscientist]

I loved my 50 trim E, it came on only a tick slower than the S14 turbo it replaced and felt like somone punched you in the chest. I think I screwed up selling it.

[ganma_ca]

^ DOH!!!

Mmmmmmm 50 trim goodnesssssssss

I totally think the CA should never be stroked squareness is a good thing;) But give me that jun full counterweighted crank we saw in one mans ca powered hotness in Japan and I'd be a vewry vewry happy camper:D

[themadscientist]

my rub is not the relationship to the bore but the insane rod angles that result. If the 18 was as tall as a 20 it would make sense.

I miss ya buddy.

[float_6969]

It'll soon be beating up on Supra's, turbo civics, and I hope a couple of Z06's that have owners that like to run their mouth.

You can live vicarously through me Mike.

[themadscientist]

If I could get the damned 26, I could live vicarioudly through myself.

[ganma_ca]

^ Yeah WTF!?!?!?!?!? Lmao Mmmmm RB Power:D*****

Power to weight ratio is soooo right! I'd still like to see a CA powered 240 beat up on a Z06, any vids when that happens would be very much appreciated lol.

Dude TMS wtf did you sell that beautimus turbo!?!?!?!?

[ragenasian]

my rub is not the relationship to the bore but the insane rod angles that result. If the 18 was as tall as a 20 it would make sense.

I miss ya buddy.

I am with you TMS. I shouldn't have sold my setup either but what can you do. I doubled my money at least

[themadscientist]

I'll have a big screw soon enough.

The 26 is still in his car, I heard it run, sounds sexy.

[zero_gripS13]

tms what manifold wsthat u used with the 50 trim?