CA transmission power limit

[BACARDI_DWB]

Just wondering what kinda power the stock tranmission is capable of. Since i have it sitting should i have it taken in by a shop and worked on. I want it to beable to take the force of 600-700hp. thanks guys

[float_6969]

It might take it for a little while, but not too long. Remember that is 3 times the amount of power that transmission was designed for. With those power levels, I'd try and get your hands on a geiken gearset or a totally different transmission with a custom bellhousing.

[bentvalves]

once your making that power, do what some do with SR's and use a z32 twin turbo transmission.

or if you have a money faucet, go for an OS gikken gearbox.

[c-rad]

better have a ford 9" rear with a solid axle too

[r34 gtr]

swedish mike was talking abou people across the pond using zf gearboxes from e46 bmws. said they were good for tons of power all day long (correct me if im wrong). i must say, after driving one i do like the transmissions a lot. i might consider trying it one day.

[float_6969]

You can use any trans really as long as you can make a bellhousing to make it work.

EDIT:I just thought of this. What if you had the trans rebuilt and then had the whole thing cryo treated. IDK what it would cost, but it might be cheaper, and you could keep your current gearing.

[dash]

If a ca18 will be attempting this 6-700hp, gbox durability may be the least of your worries.A stock motor can kill a gbox with abuse/shock.Seen cyro boxes let go just as easily... I wouldn't.If its in a 510 or something considerably lighter than a s13, the gbox could live significantly longer.z32 gbox waayyyy bigger than ca 5spd, so may require major tunnel surgery.Heavy S-chasis gone 8s with J30 rear end. That may be an option.

[float_6969]

I never asked, what application is this 600-700hp CA for. Drag I would hope, because if you think that you're going to make that much power and have any useable powerband for roadracing/autoX/drift, you're sorely mistaken.

If it IS for drag, then forget all this crap, and get a good auto and have a bellhousing fabbed up.

[BACARDI_DWB]

well this car is going to be multi purpose and i am building it to Withstand 600-700 hp. it will most likely be a 400hp daily driver. but i am building the block to withstand 700hp and i want to have the drivetrain to withstand it also.

[c-rad]

well this car is going to be multi purpose and i am building it to Withstand 600-700 hp. it will most likely be a 400hp daily driver. but i am building the block to withstand 700hp and i want to have the drivetrain to withstand it also.

Hate to burst your bubble, but multipurpose doesn't really work too well. Autox, drag, drift-- all have very different setups. Drag = super soft suspension with small front brakes and rotors. Autox = very stiff chassis/susp with large brakes and rotors. The best you could shoot for is middle ground but the car won't be competitive in either type of event.

[BACARDI_DWB]

ok wow! this is why i really don't like coming on this site that often.

c-rad i know you have the best intentions. but i said neither of the sort. i said "it will most likely be a 400hp daily driver" nothing else. please don't tell me how to tune my car.

I appreciate the assistance in that. but I know how to tune my car. I have 3 cars in the 12's and one of them in the 11's. this is a personal car that i am building. just need to know what the max on the stock transmission has been taken to. not to sound like a prick but pls stay on topic

[JaPPster]

i was asking the same question some time ago, no good replies, but i think anything over 350bhp is pushing the limit..Swedish Mike did help me, he uses BMW E36/46 boxes with very litlle modifications, they are strong enough for 1000hp and they shift great.I'm currently looking for E46 330i 6speed box, i hope i'll find it cheap :-)i say go with that solution, it will be cheapest of all, they are almost straight fit...

[BACARDI_DWB]

Thank you Jappster. now when you say almost fits straight in what hinders it? are the problems in the transmission tunnel or in the bell houseing. did you have to get a new bell housing? and about what kinda price are they running? that sounds like the best idea i have heard of so far.. thanks

Ryan

in that case i can sell my old one also to offset that cost

ps.what years were the good ones. and which 36/46 transmissions can i use? out of which ones and years? thanks


Modified by BACARDI_DWB at 1:34 PM 11/14/2006

[dattodude]

The question of how much power can a manual gearbox handle is surely determined by the gearboxes condition, the treatment it receives during gear changes, and the road surface/condition.

Most CA/SR gearboxes I've seen that have busted, have done so because bits of selectors or synchros break off and lodge themselves in the geartrain and the small faults caused by this failure allows the gears to 'ride up' and merrily strip the teeth off the gears.

But my experience is that the S13 gearboxes are good for up to 400-500hp. But for drag racing, Auto gearbox is the only way to stop smashing the selectors and synchros. These things aren't bullet proof on the CA/SR boxes. I don't think many peoples left leg would handle a 700hp clutch for very long either :-)

The US$2000-$4000 new internals available from some shops use tougher selectors, and better synchros, but this is at the expense of noisier shifts, making the car no longer a daily driver.

The only people I know that are searching for 500+ horses are drag racing people. I don't know of any circuit racers using CA18det wanting more than 400hp, because of the losses in usable torque curve. It's about the area under the curve, not the peaks that makes a winner in most autosports.

Get the engine running in your 510 at 400hp and then come tell us you still need 700hp :-)

[BACARDI_DWB]

datto dude believe me i know exactly what you are talkin about and totally agree but in that same aspect, i am building a 700hp capable car and only running 400 hp. why you ask. because reliablility means alot more to me. i will never run that thing to over 550 hp. but i would like to know that if i wanted to that i can without worrying if my pistons will hold up. now if i make an engine reliable up to 700hp that leads me to want a drivetrain that can match that also. hence the reason why i am here asking the question.

thanks Datto

[c-rad]

ok wow! this is why i really don't like coming on this site that often.

c-rad i know you have the best intentions. but i said neither of the sort. i said "it will most likely be a 400hp daily driver" nothing else. please don't tell me how to tune my car.

Your track record of questions shows otherwise--

Looking into bearings i noticed there are different sizes other than the standard. of course this can increase compression and/or lower it i was wonderin besides wear and tear and heat transfer what would be the main reason for going with the different sizes and what would you guys suggest as shown in this site:

Bearings change compression?

Alright first is first

I am not looking for alternatives to what other rods their are i am pretty set on the titanium rods.

Secondly this is not going to be a daily driver this is my race car

and also i am fully aware of what stock can do

its my money let me spend it how i want i was wonderin if there is anyone with any experiance with titanium rods.

So is it a daily driver or a race car? And I see a pattern with you putting yourself out there for criticism, yet get all TO'd when someone does criticize you.

Oh, and lastly--

and the type of racing i am building for is drag and scca racing. i want to build a car that can do both. not professionally but just cause its something that i have wanted to do. and as to your last statement

Contradict yourself much?

[BACARDI_DWB]

alright c-rad. your right ok my plans have changed. and.. wow big man you called me out on all my old posts. seems you have nothing better to do with your life than pwn someone for asking questions? just because i say its my race car does not mean its not going to be driven on the street. i will give you what you want. YOU ARE THE MAN! I want EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT C-RAD pwned me without helping someone who didn't know and had questions!!! thanks for all the help C-RAD i am glad you were there with the assist.

[BACARDI_DWB]

oh and just so you know i did go with advice given to me on the rods. i didn't go with titanium, i went with pauter rods.

[c-rad]

alright c-rad. your right ok my plans have changed. and.. wow big man you called me out on all my old posts. seems you have nothing better to do with your life than pwn someone for asking questions? just because i say its my race car does not mean its not going to be driven on the street. i will give you what you want. YOU ARE THE MAN! I want EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT C-RAD pwned me without helping someone who didn't know and had questions!!! thanks for all the help C-RAD i am glad you were there with the assist.

That it? You're welcome.

Back on topic- None of the S13 trannies will last long above 300 hp if you're banging gears. Like the others said, upgrade the gearset to an os giken or grex and or use a Z32 etc through the use of an adapter plate.

[BACARDI_DWB]

yeah i see how it is.. I call you out and you jump back and give advice..

ok no worries i will drop it. but know that i came to this forum not wanting a Ca but after learning about it i wanted one so i got it and i am still learning about it. i am no expert nor never claimed to be. but i am slowly starting to regret getting a CA just due to the community like yourself that act a total fool and pwn newbs when they have questions.

I appreciate your help everyone and i thank you to those who have actually contributed. pretty sure i want that Bimmer transmission now. any one have any information on it? *starting search*

[tyrannix]

only read the last few posts

kiss and make up?

i have found this board in perticular (the CA one) to be one of teh *more* mature boards ive ever been on, and why i stuck around.

the thing is that you have been (as far a i have seen) asking questions that noone here knows definate answers to. like titanium rods. youll be lucky to find someone here who has ever had experience with them.

but back to teh question at hand. the general consensus is that an s-body will hold up to 400 ft-lbs (beat down cars may vary)

im planning to run some stupid power as well (not as high as you are aiming, but high for the average CA)

im going to see how long a normal (KAE, to get the taller 5th gear) box will last me.

but for exactly what youll need, talk to sweedish mike. He has hands on experience with the BWM boxes on nissans, and CAs im pretty sure.he might even be able to hook you up with an adapter plate.

CJ

EDIT> DUDEi just realized this was for a 510. curb weight = what? 2200 lbs? you can get that lighter than an ae86... and an ae86 with 250 to the wheels is a scarey ride...

there is such a thing a 'too much ' power ... if you have a 400 ft-lb powerband on a 510.. youre probably going to have traction issues too (and pucker factor issues)

just keep that in mind too. I'm All for stupid power in small cars, and i want to see new things happen.

[BACARDI_DWB]

Tyrannix,yes you are right i do have some lofty questions. pretty much i only ask questions that i cant find out by searching.

thank you i didn't know if you needed an adaptor or not for hte bimmer. good to know. i live in sandeigo and i know tons of places that make them for cheap since everyone out here does v-8 sand rails that need those adaptor plates..

thought about the KA transmission but want something a little more reliable..

[BACARDI_DWB]

yes this is all about lightweight and lots of stupid power. this is all about seeing what i can do reliably. i want this as my fun fast crazy 510 and its mainly just a project for myself

[ca18datsun510]

Hate to burst your bubble, but multipurpose doesn't really work too well. Autox, drag, drift-- all have very different setups. Drag = super soft suspension with small front brakes and rotors. Autox = very stiff chassis/susp with large brakes and rotors. The best you could shoot for is middle ground but the car won't be competitive in either type of event.

hate to burst your bubble but in drag you want a hard rear so it puts the power to the ground, and in the front you want it to rebound fast and compress slow. (easy out, hard in.)

and no on the small front brakes and rotors. you still want big diameter, but lighter, thinner, maybe less pistons cause they dont have to withstand constant use and kick off heat, but you still want the leverage of big rotors.

[BACARDI_DWB]

oh yeah and i also just sent out my head for a full race port job. oversized valves 7 angle job. and my guy is making me a custom plenium with a 70mm throttle body.. hehe can't wait to get that back

[ca18datsun510]

better have a ford 9" rear with a solid axle too

pls explain. there are plenty of high horsepower r32-33-34, s13-14-15, datsun z's etc. running the r180-200 etc rear ends.

some of them running in the 8's, 9's, 10's etc.

mostly in australia/new zealand, and japan. but they are starting to show up in america. mazworx sr powered s14 for example.

[ca18datsun510]

alright c-rad. your right ok my plans have changed. and.. wow big man you called me out on all my old posts. seems you have nothing better to do with your life than pwn someone for asking questions? just because i say its my race car does not mean its not going to be driven on the street. i will give you what you want. YOU ARE THE MAN! I want EVERYONE TO KNOW THAT C-RAD pwned me without helping someone who didn't know and had questions!!! thanks for all the help C-RAD i am glad you were there with the assist.

wtf is pwned? can we keep it english in here? i dont speak ethug or whatever that **** is.

[BACARDI_DWB]

yeah i am going to use a r200. can i say ford cosworth? or the rear end out of a subaru STI... either way i will get that power to the ground.. it may be up in smoke but i will have independant rear regardless

[ca18datsun510]

yeah i am going to use a r200. can i say ford cosworth? or the rear end out of a subaru STI... either way i will get that power to the ground.. it may be up in smoke but i will have independant rear regardless

can i say dont waste your time?

if you are really gonna be making that much power, get a r200, put in a real lsd, and while you're at it, change over to cv joints in the rear axles and ditch the stock u-joint style axles.

or leave them and hope they break(like a fuse) before your stock ca trans.

400+ horse, dont waste your time with a viscous lsd. spend the money there just like the rest of the money you are spending on the motor and trans.

then setup the rear suspension real good. box the rear control arms, and notch them for tire clearence, cause that 510 aint gonna hook up with anything that will fit under a stock setup rear end unless you got flares.

change over to a coilover setup, and ditch the stock rear spring/shock setup.

stitch weld that ***** and add a rollcage.

30+ year old datsun made out of recycled buicks and tin cans dont like 400 horse and traction.

[BACARDI_DWB]

can i say dont waste your time?

if you are really gonna be making that much power, get a r200, put in a real lsd, and while you're at it, change over to cv joints in the rear axles and ditch the stock u-joint style axles.

or leave them and hope they break(like a fuse) before your stock ca trans.

400+ horse, dont waste your time with a viscous lsd. spend the money there just like the rest of the money you are spending on the motor and trans.

then setup the rear suspension real good. box the rear control arms, and notch them for tire clearence, cause that 510 aint gonna hook up with anything that will fit under a stock setup rear end unless you got flares.

change over to a coilover setup, and ditch the stock rear spring/shock setup.

stitch weld that ***** and add a rollcage.

30+ year old datsun made out of recycled buicks and tin cans dont like 400 horse and traction.

That is one of the best set of advice i have heard of in a while, i have been looking at the inboard brake setup that the corvetts used to use. but i like that R200 idea .

an i am putting in a roll cage as soon as i get my new floorboards welded in (hence the reason i am not worried about the transmission tunnel)