CA Coilpack Cover

[dash]

recent threadhttp://www.nissansilvia.com/fo...15903

v6 gm coilhttp://www.skylinesdownunder.c...85805

nico threadhttp://forums.nicoclub.com/zer...78931

[bentvalves]

great link to good info!!

[missionsix43]

Ive got some ford focus coils...

Looks like they list for $55 each brand new

I should be done figuring out if they will work or not within a couple days.

I just confirmed that they work in the same manner..

They ground through the mounting bolt, and have a 2 pin connector.. one is signal, and one is +12, just like the stock packs.

I have to go get plugs for them and then I will work on installing them, luckily, they look plenty long for the application so you wont need to use any sort of spark plug extender.



These are the same packs




Modified by missionsix43 at 12:38 AM 2/11/2007

[float_6969]

I've got an SDS and I'm using the GM coils that come with it. They're rated good to about 10K rpm and 500HP, IIRC. The plug wires on my setup are about 18" at the LONGEST. I seriously doubt that a COP has got much, if any advantages over my setup.

[missionsix43]

The plug wires on my setup are about 18" at the LONGEST. I seriously doubt that a COP has got much, if any advantages over my setup.

Yeah AND? Yes, it works, but it is NOT more efficient.

It IS downgrading, coil on plugs are more advanced than standard coils, and more efficient. I'm not saying it will hurt performance, but it is downgrading nonetheless.

If I wanted to spend more money, and add more crap to my engine bay, I would certainly look into standard coils.

As far as these coils go, I know the owner of one 370whp motor which has them stock, and they work flawlessly. All the speed world challenge cars etc run stock ignition as well.

[dash]

more advanced? ok... call it what u want, but the results ain't.downgrading? can't be.... if the performace isn't diminished.more efficient? you'll die a wrinkled ol' man trying to drum up a device to measure that. You'll see the tooth fairy & easter bunny 1st.

Just remember that LOTS of cars have reached the pinnacle of street performance, equipped with distributors or coil packs - at a level of driveability, power & efficiency none of us will probably ever achieve. More power to you if you feel COP affords you any advantage over these whatsoever - that exists only in your mind.For many of us, 'function' is paramount, so "downgrading" is quite acceptable Remember Marks' 440whp street ca18 ? ya... downgraded.

After done testing (and the ignitor survives), the focus coils may be considered yet another worthwhile alternative to replace failed stock coils. Which btw perform flawless too.... while they work.

[Chinamandrift]

two LED CPU FANS ...and 4 heats sinks FTW!!!!

i have those here.....cuz yeah imma computer geek also ....hahaha and i have a custom aluminum vented cover

[missionsix43]

more advanced? ok... call it what u want, but the results ain't.

What results? The ones in your head?Coil on plug IS more advanced than a coil pack + plug wire. There really isn't any denying that.

downgrading? can't be.... if the performace isn't diminished.

And you know this HOW? YES, there are cars making A LOT of power on standard coils, that does NOT mean they are better, it means they are SUFFICIENT for making that much power.

more efficient? you'll die a wrinkled ol' man trying to drum up a device to measure that. You'll see the tooth fairy & easter bunny 1st.

Ever heard of the term RESISTANCE? Look it up.

Incase you dont understand, there is resistance AND voltage drop in a plug wire, I'm not saying it is HUGE, I am saying that it exists.

Incase you dont understand, a C.O.P Coil is basically a standard coil, which sits DIRECTLY on top of the spark plug, therefore has SIGNIFICANTLY less resistance/voltage drop than a standard coil with a sparkplug wire.

Just remember that LOTS of cars have reached the pinnacle of street performance, equipped with distributors or coil packs - at a level of driveability, power & efficiency none of us will probably ever achieve.

It is true that there are a lot of cars making a lot of power with distributors and standard coil packs, this does not mean that distributors and coil packs are more efficient than coil on plug. You have to get it in your head, that coil on plug is an ADVANCEMENT in technology, it IS more efficient that a distributor or standard coilpack. Just because a certan motor makes so much power running standard coilpacks does not mean that it will not benefit by using coil on plug.

More power to you if you feel COP affords you any advantage over these whatsoever - that exists only in your mind.

I do feel they do and no, this does not only exist in my mind, it is a FACT. If you refuse to accept the fact that putting a coil DIRECTLY on the spark plug, rather than placing it 8+ inches away and using a spark plug wire is JUST as efficient, you are truely a MORON and should have taken physics in high school.

For many of us, 'function' is paramount, so "downgrading" is quite acceptable Remember Marks' 440whp street ca18 ? ya... downgraded.

Decreasing the efficiency of your ignition system is hardly a "function" modification, more like "my standalone cannot handle coil on plug" so I will use standard coils rather than purchasing a better standalone system.

Awaiting your ingenious reply.

[dattodude]

Using external coils is good because they don't get cooked, and cost 20-30% the price of the Nissan COP ones.

The performance drop is negligible, and you get to replace the old/crusty 17 year old nissan plugs.

I run CDI and external coils, and I am very happy with the results.

There are more variables at play here than simple spark lead resistance.

Heat related unreliability is a big problem in hot countries. In Japan, sure I'd run COP, for the 5 year lifespan that the cars were designed to last.

[ca18datsun510]

Using external coils is good because they don't get cooked, and cost 20-30% the price of the Nissan COP ones.

The performance drop is negligible, and you get to replace the old/crusty 17 year old nissan plugs.

I run CDI and external coils, and I am very happy with the results.

There are more variables at play here than simple spark lead resistance.

Heat related unreliability is a big problem in hot countries. In Japan, sure I'd run COP, for the 5 year lifespan that the cars were designed to last.

[dash]

missionYou keep spewing out this 'efficiency' rubbish but won't quantify it.SHOW US how much more efficient your COP are... stop bull5h1tin'.Then put down the crack pipe, get this in your head. I NEVER once said any is better or more/less efficient... besides who cares if its 'more advanced' BUT performs NO better ? Yours won't.Unlike you, the rest of us focus primarily on results. Lots of testimonials show COP conversions didn't make a dam bit of difference - only in the wallet. Tell us what makes *you* so special.I'm sure no chance dattos entry would wisen u up either.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/show...pp=25Read post #8Know what the big difference is ?? Keith of Flyinmiata has a wealth of experience AND actually dynos modifications back to back, during (1.6/1.8/2.0 turbo miatas) R&D work. Do you ?Why would he make those comments ? Now go lecture he & Jeremy on "downgrading, resistance & efficiency". They're obviously another two morons who desparately could use a dose of your wisdom. lol

[missionsix43]

edited due to content by float_6969. If the name calling continues, you'll get more than flowers.

[The_Chosen_One]

Here ya go Ls1 coils, rated at 1000HP EACH!!!!! capable of over 15Krpms, decently priced, more effiecent as it takes less energy to create the same spark. You can actually control them more precise than a coilpack. And the way they operate is definatly a plus.

[dash]

missionCANNOT answer simple questions...typically sidestep the issue.Just spew out more BULL/another dumb response. You're so full of it. Worse... sheer ignorance overshadows your ability to reason.Incapable of posting ANY useful information with substance.Resort to childish name calling is clearly the best of u.

[davidricardo86]

Wow this is getting a little cra-zay so i think im going to try and have some input in this "conversation" since were on the topic. I have some information straight from some of my auto books on ignition systems id like to share with you guys. There are a few differences to either Electronic Ignitions and Distributor Ignitions. A lot of this is redundant and known knowledge but important non-the-less. By now, most of us should know how a Distributor Igniton (DI) System works so im not going to go into too much detail about this type of ignition system. If not, search online for a brief guide on this.

"Electronic ignition (EI) systems have no distributor: spark distribution is controlled by an electronic control unit and/or the vehicle's computer. Instead of a single ignition coil for all cylinders, each cylinder may have its own ignition coil, or two cylinders may share one coil. The coils are wired directly to the spark plug they control. An ignition control module, tied into the vehicle's computer control system, controls the firing order and the spark timing and advance. This module is typically located under the coil assembly. Some manufacturers will have the function of the ignition module performed directly by the PCM."

"The main difference between the basic distributor system and the DI systemis the elimination of any mechanical or vacuum advace devices from the distributor. In the DI systems, the distributor's purpose is to generate the primary circuit's switching signal and distribute the secondary voltage to the spark plugs. Timing advance is controlled by a microprocessor, or computer. In fact, some of these systems have even removed the primary switching function from the distributor by using a crankshaft position sensor. In this case, the sole function fo the distributor is to distribute secondary voltage to the spark plugs. Using the computer to sense engine load, engine speed, engine temperature, ambient temperature, and to control spark delivery allows for precise ignition timing for increased fuel economy and reduced emissions."

"The computer continuosly monitors existing conditions, adjusting timing to match what its memory tells it is the ideal setting for those conditions. It can do this very quickly, making thousands of decisions in a single second. The control computer typically has the folowing types of information permanently programed into it:

-Speed-related spark advance. As engine speed increases to a particular point, there is a need for more advanced timing. As the engine slows, the timing should be retarded or have less advance. The computer bases speed-related spark adave decsions on engine speed and signals from the TP sensor.

-Load-related spark advance. This is used to improve power and fuel economy during acceleration and heavy load conditions. The computer defines the load and the ideal spark advance by processing information from the TP sensor, MAP/MAF, and engine speed sensors.

-Warm up spark advance. This is used when the engine is cold, since a greater amount of advance is required while the engine warms up.

-Special spark advance. This is used to improve fuel economy during steady driving conditions. During constant speed and load conditions, the engine will be more efficient with more advance timing.

-Spark advance due to barometric pressure. This is used when barometric pressure exceeds a preset calibrated value."

"Manufacturers have evolved their systems from the point-type, to solid state, to computer controlled DI systems, and now to electronic ignition (EI). EI systems electronically perform the functions of a distributor. Distributorless systems use multiple coils and modules to provide and distribute high secondary voltages directly from the coild to the spark plugs. Since the distributor is eliminated in EI systems, ignition timing remains more stable over the life of the engine.

Another advantage of the EI system is its higher voltage reserves. A specific amount of energy is available in the secondary ignition circuit. This energy is normally produced in the form of voltage required to start firing the spark plug, then a certain amount of current flow across the spark plug electrodes. Electronic ignition systems are capable of producing much higher energy than distributor ignition systems. Since both the DI and EI systems are firing spark plugs with approximately the same air gaps, the voltage required to start firing the spark plugs in both systems is nearly the same. However, since EI systems have higher voltage reserves, if the additional energy is not used to create the spark across the plug's air gap, it can be used to maintain the spark for a longer period of time. Since the additional energy is not produced in the form of voltage, it will be produced in the form of current flow for a longer time across the spark plug electrodes. The average flow across the spark plug electrodes in an EI system is 1.5 milliseconds compared to approximately 1 millisecond in a DI system. These extra 0.5 milliseconds of current flow duration may seem insignificant, but it is very important on today's engine with stricter fuel economy and emission regulations. Today's emission standards demand leaner air-fuel ratios. The additional spark duration on EI systems help prevent cylinder misfiring with leaner air-fuel ratios."

"The typical amount of secondary coil voltage required to jump the spark plug gap is 10,000 volts. The coil is capable of producing approximately 30,000 to 60,000 volts. However, the level of voltage that is produced is dependent on many factors. The coil will produce only enough voltage required to overcome these factors: plug gap, air-fuel ratio, plug wire resistance, engine speed, and compression ratio. The margin of potential voltage above that which is required to fire the spark plug represents the secondary reserve voltage which is built into the ignition system. This Reserve Voltage is necessary to compensate for high cylinder pressures and increased secondary resistances as the spark plug gap increase through use. The maximum available voltage must always exceed the required firing voltage or ignition misfire will occur. If there is an insufficient amount of voltage available to ionize the spark plug gap the spark plug will not fire."

So as you can see, the more "advance" coil-on-plug Electronic Igntion systems do have some advantages over Dristributor Igntions, it is more or less for improved fuel economy and reduced emissions. This is a step up in "performance" but then again a lot of us know that fuel economy goes down aswell as reliablilty, and emissions go up when trying to build our fuel hungry "race or street" performance engines. Either igniton systems is obviously capable of handlying the job, as proven with normal cars and full bred race cars. Engines love fuel, but if we can make them run on the highest air-fuel ratio, reduce emissions, improve economy, improve efficiency, avoid detonation, misfiring, and all the other problems that we must overcome, the better we are! I'll agree that they didnt get more into detail about the disadvantages and advantages of both but hey atleast i tried, now its your turn! (not directed towards any specific person)
Modified by davidricardo86 at 5:51 PM 2/17/2007

[float_6969]

COP-Pros- No plug wire resistance to overcome (which is minimal in a modern plug wire), no EM interference from the plug wire (once again minimal in a modern plug wire).Cons-Prone to failure from heat.

Remote coils-Pros-No heat issues to worry about, can still run individual coils for each cylinder, and can be mounted in such a way to keep the temps down, but still keep the plug wires quite short. Cons-Minimal increase in resistance and EM interference due to plug wires.

COP setups have shown to have longevity issues. I promise you that a remote mounted individual coil with a modern plug wire kept to a reasonably short distance will have a barely measurable difference in spark duration and a VERY measurable difference in lifespan.

[r34 gtr]

if i was concerned about the quality of the spark with a remote mounted coil setup i wouldnt be changing to it. to boot, motorcraft stuff is cheap as a tijuana whore so if it breaks you dont have to take out a bank loan or give the nissan dealer your left testicle.

[dattodude]

My CDI and external coils can produce a 2 foot spark, no factory system will do that. I reckon they might even ignite to the piston crown or cylinder bore :-)

Factory designs do use cost as a design dimension, as do they scope planned obsolescence. Like the mounting of ignition transistors on the back of the head, that's just plain stupid.

I agree that the Factory Nissan ECUs do easily complain about interference for the factory CAS, courtesy of interference to the 1deg signal, when using external leads.

So, I also agree with float's latest summary of this discussion.

I would NEVER waste US$600 on splitfire COP. Unless engine modifications were illegal in my state, and I was trying to hide the mods from the police.