Buying an EX35 in today's economic climate

[new_guy]

I went to an Infiniti dealer today here in San Diego. The lot was empty...I was the only customer. I went in specifically to look at the EX35. My wife and i are considering other cars in its class (i.e., X3, GLK, RDX). Doing research, it seems that the EX35 just ha alot more to offer for the price. There were 6 EX35s in stock ranging from 36k to 43k sticker. I told the dealer I researched the prices on Edmunds and she cut to the chase and told me that if I brought in print out from Edmunds and showed her the minimum price that our negotiation to buy the car would only take 10-15 minutes. By "minimum price" I'm assuming she was referring to the invoice price.

My question to y'all is considering today's economic climate -- are dealer's willing to sell an EX35 at the invoice price..if not below the invoice price? If so, if the invoice price is 30k on Edmunds, then should I expect nothing less than the invoice price...considering that there are still 6 2008 EX's on the lot?

Any help would be much appreciated...this is my first time buying a car.

[Dodgeyaussie]

By "minimum price" I'm assuming she was referring to the invoice price.

My question to y'all is considering today's economic climate -- are dealer's willing to sell an EX35 at the invoice price..if not below the invoice price? If so, if the invoice price is 30k on Edmunds, then should I expect nothing less than the invoice price...considering that there are still 6 2008 EX's on the lot?

Any help would be much appreciated...this is my first time buying a car.

Dealers sell at invoice ALL the time. Especially for the EX which hasn't exactly set the sales charts on fire. There is only $500 cash available on the EX's at the moment, so i would pick out the car and offer invoice for it.

[tondraj]

Dealers sell at invoice ALL the time. Especially for the EX which hasn't exactly set the sales charts on fire. There is only $500 cash available on the EX's at the moment, so i would pick out the car and offer invoice for it.

Actually there's a $5000 cash rebate, not $500. You can choose the financing rate of 0.9% or the cash back amount. I've been in discussions with a dealer about this car and without me even asking he gave me $8000 off MSRP. That equated to $500 over invoice and $5000 cash back. i countered with an offer of $1500 under invoice + $5000 cash back. We'll see what happens.

[302@12psi]

I have no idea what Infinit does but with Subaru's their "rebates" are defined by regions. Meaning someone buying a car in Texas might have more rebates to offer then someone buying from Maryland.

More or less if you are in a position to get a new car between 500 under invoice up to invoice then it's usually a fair grab.

Worst case is just pin two dealers against each other online. Find the same car with the same options at two dealers and begin the email battle.

When I shop I largely base the purchase off of experiance rather then saving 500 dollars. 500 dollars over the course of 3-5 years is NOTHING and I'd rather buy from the salesman/dealership I liked then save 2-5 dollars a month.

[new_guy]

Wow...so if the dealer accepts your offer for $1500 under invoice plus the $5000.00 rebate, then are you essentially getting the car for under $30k? Is the $5000 rebate a nationwide offer or just by region?

[tondraj]

The MSRP on the one I'm looking at is $41725 so it would've been more like $32k. They didn't accept my offer though and they're coming back with a counter. If you figure there's roughly a $3500 difference between MSRP and invoice and add that to the $5000 rebate for my region, that's $8500 off MSRP. That's a good deal in my book, especially for this vehicle. I'm in the Buffalo area if you were wondering.

[Bmore]

These cars are routinely going for well under invoice. I paid more than $10k under MSRP.

Go over to the Edmunds.com forum and see the prices people are paying. I bought my car in March and got several dealers bidding over email. That's the best way to get the best price I think. They had different cars, so I had to be a tad flexible, but after not much effort one dealer said he would do $32,6XX on a car with an MSRP of $42,2XX. He said he "might" be able to do $32,000 when I said I could get cheaper elsewhere. I told another dealer I could get $32,000 and he said come in and we'll do our similarly optioned car for under $32,000. I ended up going there for that deal. A third and fourth dealer refused to come down that much and gave starting numbers several grand higher than the above. They came down some, but I gave up on them because I just didn't feel like taking the time or energy to haggle when I had other better offers off the bat. They had a bad strategy I guess to get my business.

Destination charge was included in my price and there was only about $100 in added fees, but they lowered the purchase price by $100 to account for that when I pushed back.

In my area, all cars have AWD. The leftovers on the lot, and there are many of them, are also relatively optioned out. I didn't see anything below $40k in MSRP or else I would've jumped on it. The ranges of cars in my area were basically $41k to $45k. Not sure if they are discounting the less optioned cars at such great amounts, but probably somewhere in the area. They may give greater discounts even on the fully loaded ones, as those seem harder to get off of the lots.

Not sure if April purchases changes anything from my March purchase, but you should be able to go well below invoice. I negotiated my deals without any reference whatsoever to a trade-in because I wasn't sure I was going to trade and had heard the tip not to mention this or to say no you aren't trading. I did decide to trade instead of donate, and I think they got some of their "loss" back out of that. But it was easier for me than donating it and I did better than the tax deduction I would've gotten. The car had a major mechanical problem, or else I would've tried to do a private sale.
Modified by Bmore at 3:26 PM 4/21/2009

[Bmore]

I think you shouldn't buy for less than $8k off MSRP. Based on what I've seen, reasonable (to great) deals are between $8k and 11k off MSRP. Where in the range you get depends on locale, dealer, stock, how you approach the sale, competitiveness in the region between dealers, etc. But $8500 off is reasonable. I would go for more though and see if you can do it.

[new_guy]

Thanks for the information. This forum is great resource, so thanks to all that have responded. I will take a look at the Edmunds forum...i didn't think to look there.

Anayways, I got my first offer from a dealer via email this morning and it is consistent to what many of you have been saying. This is a paste from his email:

"Christopher,,'08 EX35 RWD... MSRP $41,475.00 your price $32,955.56 + fees... Incl. Premuim Package, Navigation,Wood and Splash Guard...Special Financing Not Compatible with this price...Let me know if this works for you."

About 8k off sticker. Do you guys thinks I can get this lower? or is this good already? This was his first response to me. I didn't even have to ask for anything and he offers me 8k off the sticker? Is this a sign that he is desperate?

Regardless, I plan to do what you guys have been saying and that is to see what other dealers offer me via email. Maybe I can start a bidding war.

Thanks again for your responses.

[Bmore]

I wouldn't pay any fees, except tax and registration. I would email him back and say that you don't think this is the best deal you can get and that you think he's off by a grand or more. Ask him if he can get lower before you expend some energy working with other dealers. See what he says. And in the meantime email a few other dealers and say you've gotten over $8.5k off but would rather deal with them and by how much can they beat that.

I think you can get more than $8500 off MSRP, but some dealers just won't do it. If you have 3-4 dealers in your area with similar cars, my guess is that one will be willing to go $9000 to $10000 off. Of course there are lots of variables at play. If they won't do it, then the $8.5k is really a fine deal. Like I said, I think the best deals out there are between $8.5k and $10.5k off. Try for the latter, but the former is acceptable as well if you can't get it.

And try to be vague! They really tried to nail me down to the exact number the other dealer was offering and who that dealer was and do I have written proof. Try not to tell but give enough detail that they buy what you are saying. It felt like navigating a job interview/offer on salaries!
Modified by Bmore at 3:19 PM 4/21/2009

[Punjab]

NewGuy

Depending on options.. i would say that the dealer has about 5k (a marketing promotion from what i remember but its a cash option not applicable with financing) on top of dealer invoice not sticker to move.. this would net in no profit just a hold back if any...

I got 6k off my Ex and did 0% for 6 years.. if i had not I would have gotten 11k off the car.

Essentially bought the car at dealer invoice with no destination and or misc fees,

Also try to get them to let you put down payment or taxes on a credit card to make some points in the deal to..

Edmund's and KBB can lay out exact cost of vehicle to dealer.Dont be afraid to walk away, if they dont what to sell you a car someone else will.. they all come from the same place after all.

[new_guy]

Thanks Bmore and Punjab...all sound advice. I'll let you know what I find out.

[new_guy]

I have a potentially stupid question =)

When I look at Edmunds for dealer invoice, Is the invoice price the base price for that model or does the invoice price also include the options that I was asking for?

[new_guy]

Hi Punjab,

Today, I got this offer that seems way above True Market Value.

- Premum Package- Navigation Package- Technology Package- Luxe Style Package- Roof Rails

Moonlight White/ Wheat Interior

With Infiniti Special Finance Rate of 0.9%: $40,469.00 + feesWith my own financing from my bank: $35,469 +fees

This car at invoice price of $31, 516 + the options listed is worth 38k on Edmunds.

I wrote him back and said that it wouldn't be worth my drive if he couldn't offer me the invoice price of $31,516, if not below the invoice price.

What are your thoughts?

[Bmore]

Something is way off in your numbers/analysis. The car you described seems fully loaded to the max, meaning the MSRP is about $44k-46k dependent upon if it is RWD or not. We need to know the exact MSRP of the car you want to purchase and the exact invoice of it with all options. Where are you getting the invoices of $31k and the $38k? That seems way low for the options you listed.

You seem to be misreading/misunderstanding the Edmunds numbers and getting them wrong. Invoice for a Journey RWD is $32,597 and this is without any options, in other words, not the relevant number. If I price it with your options, I get $40,651 as the invoice.

So, he's offering you at invoice if you take the financing and $10k under MSRP (5k under invoice) if you don't? We need to know the MSRP, as you are shooting for 10k below that. If it is, then that's on target with the promotions and within range of the best possible deals out there and many people would consider this great. So what's the MSRP? If it's $44k or under, try to get him down a bit more. If it's $45k, you should take the deal.

He's going to think you've lost your rocker or are seriously confused if you send him that email. I can't see how a car with Tech, Navi, Prem, and Luxe Style would ever go for $31k. I'm not used to pricing out RWD models, but I think his price sounds really good. Again, I can't tell exactly what the MSRP or true invoice of the car you want to buy is. If you give us that, then we can give more guidance. If you want a $31k car, you gotta ditch the Tech and at least one other package.
Modified by Bmore at 2:36 PM 4/22/2009

[Bmore]

I added wood trim and some other small things when I built your car, assuming your car had those too. But you need to get your exact numbers straight or else you're going to lose a few hundred dollars here and there.

[new_guy]

Something is way off in your numbers/analysis. The car you described seems fully loaded to the max, meaning the MSRP is about $44k-46k dependent upon if it is RWD or not. We need to know the exact MSRP of the car you want to purchase and the exact invoice of it with all options. Where are you getting the invoices of $31k and the $38k? That seems way low for the options you listed.

You seem to be misreading/misunderstanding the Edmunds numbers and getting them wrong. Invoice for a Journey RWD is $32,597 and this is without any options, in other words, not the relevant number. If I price it with your options, I get $40,651 as the invoice.

So, he's offering you at invoice if you take the financing and $10k under MSRP (5k under invoice) if you don't? We need to know the MSRP, as you are shooting for 10k below that. If it is, then that's on target with the promotions and within range of the best possible deals out there and many people would consider this great. So what's the MSRP? If it's $44k or under, try to get him down a bit more. If it's $45k, you should take the deal.

He's going to think you've lost your rocker or are seriously confused if you send him that email. I can't see how a car with Tech, Navi, Prem, and Luxe Style would ever go for $31k. I'm not used to pricing out RWD models, but I think his price sounds really good. Again, I can't tell exactly what the MSRP or true invoice of the car you want to buy is. If you give us that, then we can give more guidance. If you want a $31k car, you gotta ditch the Tech and at least one other package.

Modified by Bmore at 2:36 PM 4/22/2009

Sorry...Here's the dealer' email with the MSRP and Invoice pricing. Hopefully this helps. So now with this information and the previous post regarding his offer; is it a good offer? I apologize for the formatting. This is how it came out in the email. I look forward to your analysis. Thanks again!



Search for another VehicleOrder #: CA91693Current Configuration883182008 EX35 RWD JOURNEY SUV AUTOQAA-CMOONLIGHT WHITE, WHEAT

Invoice MSRPBASE $32,597 $35,450

ACT $0 $0

ACTIVATION DISCLA

CGO $51 $70CARGO AREA PROTECLSP $1,078 $1,250LUXE STYLE PACKAGNAV $1,853 $2,150NAVIGATION PACKAGPRM $1,853 $2,150PREMIUM PACKAGERAC $172 $200ROOFRAILSTEC $1,680 $1,950TECHNOLOGY PACKAG50S $0 $050 STATE EMISSIONFreight Charge $865 $865

Total $40,149 $44,085

Vehicle InformationOrder #: CA91693 VIN: JNKAJ09EX8M306741

[Punjab]

Hello New Guy

The 40K appears to be accurate for dealer invoice, it includes destination which is around 865, also I am not sure if the (5k is still avail to cash buyer ) if it is then that should bring you down to 35k at the most.. dealer will try to make some money so can vary. Also i was looking at edmunds and their is a 500$ incentive, their was a similar incentive when i was buying but i am did not qualify for it since it was for previous infiniti owners only.. its worth looking into( its a first month car payment)

MSRP 44k Dealer invoice 40K (Most dealers will do ) (inquire about the 500)

Cash Buyer 35k ( ideal but may need to be chased)

In retrospect if you can score a car for around 15% off Msrp your solid .. look at other manufactures they will barley move 8-10% even in this market.

Always calculate the value of financing and not financing.. many people will chase the cash deal but 5k upfront is sometimes a loss in the long run when you get hit by 5,6,7 % over 5 years.

Hope this helps.

[new_guy]

Hello New Guy

The 40K appears to be accurate for dealer invoice, it includes destination which is around 865, also I am not sure if the (5k is still avail to cash buyer ) if it is then that should bring you down to 35k at the most.. dealer will try to make some money so can vary. Also i was looking at edmunds and their is a 500$ incentive, their was a similar incentive when i was buying but i am did not qualify for it since it was for previous infiniti owners only.. its worth looking into( its a first month car payment)

MSRP 44k Dealer invoice 40K (Most dealers will do ) (inquire about the 500)

Cash Buyer 35k ( ideal but may need to be chased)

In retrospect if you can score a car for around 15% off Msrp your solid .. look at other manufactures they will barley move 8-10% even in this market.

Always calculate the value of financing and not financing.. many people will chase the cash deal but 5k upfront is sometimes a loss in the long run when you get hit by 5,6,7 % over 5 years.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

Your analysis was right on. The offer was 35k for cash buyer and 40k with Infiniti 0.9 financing. Unfortunately, I'm looking for something closer to 30k, but then again this initial offer was for an EX with all the bells and whistles. I hate it when you ask for something in particular and they turn around and offer something more than you want.

I'll keep looking. I'm patient enough to wait till I get what I want. But all this helps. Thanks guys!

[Dodgeyaussie]

It's only $500 in CA.

Actually there's a $5000 cash rebate, not $500. You can choose the financing rate of 0.9% or the cash back amount. I've been in discussions with a dealer about this car and without me even asking he gave me $8000 off MSRP. That equated to $500 over invoice and $5000 cash back. i countered with an offer of $1500 under invoice + $5000 cash back. We'll see what happens.

I stand corrected.
Modified by Dodgeyaussie at 3:20 AM 4/23/2009

[Bmore]

Does the dealer not have anything less optioned on the lot? He probably didn't. You need to find a car that has a $38,000-$41,000 MSRP to have your purchase price (without TTL) be around $30,000. Not a fully optioned $44k vehicle.

[gloa2000]

Search for another VehicleOrder #: CA91693Current Configuration883182008 EX35 RWD JOURNEY SUV AUTOQAA-CMOONLIGHT WHITE, WHEAT

Invoice MSRPBASE $32,597 $35,450

ACT $0 $0

ACTIVATION DISCLA

CGO $51 $70CARGO AREA PROTECLSP $1,078 $1,250LUXE STYLE PACKAGNAV $1,853 $2,150NAVIGATION PACKAGPRM $1,853 $2,150PREMIUM PACKAGERAC $172 $200ROOFRAILSTEC $1,680 $1,950TECHNOLOGY PACKAG50S $0 $050 STATE EMISSIONFreight Charge $865 $865

Total $40,149 $44,085

Vehicle InformationOrder #: CA91693 VIN: JNKAJ09EX8M306741

is this car what you looking for? i had my friend in Infiniti Locate this vehicle and this car exists.and Actual Dealer invoice on that EX is $40203 and MSRP of $44085 told him about you and he is willing to do $300 under invoice on 0.9% finance or $5300 under invoice for your own financing. Let me know if this is something you been looking for... and i can have him locate less loaded ex's since you are lokking for cheaper vehicle, he told me the $300 under invoice is also available on cheaper EX's.


Modified by gloa2000 at 10:35 AM 4/24/2009

[gloa2000]

Is the $5000 rebate a nationwide offer or just by region?

Actually the $5000 is Incentive for a dealer, not a Rebate. the Difference in those 2 is Incentive can be deducted from the selling price, which helps you pay less sales tax but on rebate they put that amount in your down payment section and you are entitle to pay the sales tax for that rebate amount.

and new_guy if you can tell me your Interest rate from your bank and your down payment amount i will be able to find out which will save you more on payments, I have deal structure calculator, i can help you to coordinate.
Modified by gloa2000 at 10:31 AM 4/24/2009

[Bmore]

He can't afford that car he said. He needs something around $30k. I don't think $5300 under invoice is a rockstar deal at all.

[gloa2000]

He can't afford that car he said. He needs something around $30k. I don't think $5300 under invoice is a rockstar deal at all.

he prolly needs to remove Lux style/Navi/Tech... than it should be slightly under $30k

[swacksman]

I leased a new EX last weekend. I negotiated a price of $33,499, $9126 off MSRP. It's a 39 month lease. I never leased a car before, but I find myself constantly trading and losing money, so I decided to lease to lock myself in a bit.

There's a lot to like about this car. It rides great and has tons of power. My MPG so far is respectable -- about 21 or so combined driving. My only dislike so far is the headrest position. It just feels a bit confining, but I'll probably get used to it. I didn't test drive this particular vehicle. It was still in all of its plastic. I think the leather may have been nicer on the test car. Not a big deal, especially since I'm leasing. The cupholders are a major upgrade over my 2004 Audi A4 Cabriolet that I'm selling (anyone interested -- see Autotrader and look in zip code 41017), but not as good as the ones I had in my TL or Grand Prix. Of course, those cars were larger, so it was easier to design larger cupholders. I personally like driving something relatively small. It's just easier. But I like that I get some utility in this car, and it has all the tech toys I crave (for now). I came close to buying a Maxima. I'm not overly hip about the back seat room in the EX, but there's a lot of front room space, so the front passenger can scoot up a bit to give the rear passenger a bit more space. I think it's okay for kids or small adults. Not really much different than being in an airplane coach seat. The Maxima had more rear space, but there was NO toe room under the seats for the rear passengers. I guess it's blocked with electronics or something. Makes it kind of tight. Although Nissan was willing to deal, the EX was a better overall buy, I'd say. It's a close call in my book. I would have liked the cooled seat and heated steering wheel, but the EX gives me AWD, and that may save my life one day. I don't think a cooled seat will do that. After driving my Audi, it's spoiled me.

Anyway, unless you are a bigger person, I don't think you can go too wrong with this car. Plus, the warranty is better than a Nissan.

[dividedhighw]

Welcome to NICO, swacksman, and thanks so much for the detailed post!!

Cheers,David

[Kinex]

I just bought the 2008 Infiniti EX35 Journey AWD with Premium pkg and Navi.

On Edmunds.com, including options:MSRP = $42,015 Invoice = $38,451. I paid $33,600.

There are not too many EX's left in my area with these specific options only. I didn't want the Luxe or anything else. I negotiated with 3 dealers for 2 weeks and this is the best we could do (also, the other dealers had only white EX's which I didn't want). I probably could have held out a bit longer for a few hundred more, but I didn't have the patience:) Hope this helps!

[tondraj]

I ended up buying a white AWD Journey two Thursdays ago. It has the Premium, Luxe Style Package, Wood trim, etc.

MSRP=$42225I paid=$33600

Not a fantastic deal, but I felt pretty comfortable with paying invoice minus $5k. More importantly, I love the car. I have 8xx miles and can't wait for 1200 to click off so i can give it some throttle!

[obregoan]

So what's the lowest people here have paid with the 0.9% APR?

For the folks who got the rebate 5k off, how low/high was the interest rate you got?

The lowest i've been quoted is $41,400 (MSRP=$46,325) fully loaded with tech, premium, nav, and luxe for the 0.9% APR,the lowest i've seen if not using the 0.9% APR is like $37,000 but depending on the interest rate, could end up being closer if not more than the $41,400 at 0.9.

thoughts?
Modified by obregoan at 3:27 PM 5/13/2009