butterfly valves

[fabio240]

Fair Lakes area. My email addy is in my profile, hit me up. I'm out of town during the week for work, but the weekends I'm usually just wrenching on my 86 or hitting a bar.

Do you have a CA18det in your corolla

[flohtingPoint]

Do you have a CA18det in your corolla

No. Blacktop 20v from an AE111. My CA sits next to my SR powered S13 and a spare SR in my rented storage space in California until I figure out what to do with them.

[davidricardo86]

Is this correct?


Modified by davidricardo86 at 12:14 AM 6/16/2009

[The_Chosen_One]

Solenoid energized (on), secondary butterflies closed:



As you can see, it is connecting the butterfly system to the vacuum tank, which provides a vacuum source to pull them closed.

Solenoid de-energized (off), secondary butterflies open:

[Fleemer]

Looks good. I'l have to take a look at my pulsar and see whats going on. I want to get rid of all my emissions but I have about 3-4 of those solenoids and didn't know which one to pull off haha. I still want my butterfly valves

I might not bother since I may just do it when I drop the ca18det in ^_^

[davidricardo86]

Does anyone know which direction the delay valve is suppose to be facing?

From my setup, is it okay or do i have to turn it the other way?

Lets say my system is hooked up correctly, would i be able to see the butterfly valve rod moving up and down when the solenoid is turned on or off by the computer?

What is the main purpose of the second solenoid found next to the ignition module/power transistor?

[biosehnsucht]

check valve might be backwards ? not entirely sure. if it is, then the delay valve is probably hooked up right.

notice the shapes for the valves in this image:

One side is short compared to the other, I am thinking these might be matching with the 'short' sides of the valves (purple or black, on those in your pic)

I'm not really sure at this point from memory, I'd have to test them to figure it out for sure which way they flow

the check valve, you should be able to suck air through in one direction, but not the other...

it should allow air to flow FROM the vacuum tank TO the manifold, not the other way around (because its there to help create vacuum)

[fabio240]

Just a heads-up to anyone looking for these parts, i have a complete set butterfly valve controls i can sell anyone who is looking for it. Its was 100% operational before i removed the system.

Email me if your interested.

I emailed you on the butterfly valve setup and no responce how much do you want for it shipped to 22193

[zero_gripS13]

couple questions.

1. which pin is for the solenoid for the butterflys?

2. does it supply power or ground for the solenoid?

3. where is the plug for the soilenoid? is it on the transmission harness?

[biosehnsucht]

1 - Surprised I don't have this in my online list, will have to remember to check my JDM FSM when I'm home2 - I believe it's a switched ground (other side of solenoid goes to the 12V supplied via relay when the ECU is on, just like other solenoids and stuff)3 - should be on the ECU harness itself, I think ? but it may have been on some kind of body harness instead. the plug would be over by where the cruise control is on a USDM car.

[zero_gripS13]

when u check the jdm fsm, could u tell me what pin 57 and 9 goto according to the fsm i have for the 4port setup since i cant find a fsm for the 8 port engine (jdm) which sucks because they had different harnesses but ne ways it says its for the idle switch which cant be because mine is cut and so is 9 which isnt listed in the fsm ne ways.

that would help alot of u could check those also... but i cant find a plug on my harness for the solenoid

[zero_gripS13]

for those who have this setup runnign did u splice into the wire on pin 8 (grey i beleive) or did u cut it and just run it from ecu to solenoid, i spliced into it and it was a constant ground and just opend the valves back up.... im lmost done setting this up just need to get the ecu controlling part working.

[zero_gripS13]

wow cant beleive no one has done this.......

[superJoy]

I don't think the plug for the solenoid is on the engine harness; it'd be on the body harness like cruise control is on S13s. Basically it plugs in to the body harness, then gets routed down to the ECU. I think the JDM cars with butterfly valves are like that, so there's no actual plug on the engine harness we get with motorsets.

Anyway. I have a working JDM butterfly set-up, or at least I think I do. Seems to work.

What I did, was get a +12V, switched power. I did an add-a-circuit on a random fuse, don't remember which. Then you just splice another wire into pin 8 on the ECU. I think I traced the wire back from the ECU connector, stripped the jacket off, and soldered in a little splice. Then ran that wire from the ECU through the firewall via the wheelwell, and joined it with its brother, the +12V wire. Then found a plug from my old KA24E harness that fit the solenoid. Soldered the wires to the plug, doesn't matter which sides gets what I don't think.

Of course, you then have 2 little wires running sorta randomly. Best thing to do would be untape the engine harness, find a more permanent source for the 12V inside it, splice that, and add (or extend, or whatever) the pin 8 wire, and finally get a plug so it's all integrated in the engine harness. That would be classy.

But whatever, haha.

Hope that helps.

[zero_gripS13]

see thats basically what i did except whenthe cars runnig the valve r closed, but as soon as i hook the wire i spliced into pin 8 to the solinoid it opens the valves like its a constant ground.....thats the trouble im having.

i basically for testing took a splice connector and spliced pin 8 then ran a 12v from battrery and hooked it up to the solinoid and bam valves open instead of stasying closed, unhook the ground form pin 8 and valves close...

[D_Stirls]

Here's some dyno results for you guys;

[davidricardo86]

I don't think the plug for the solenoid is on the engine harness; it'd be on the body harness like cruise control is on S13s. Basically it plugs in to the body harness, then gets routed down to the ECU. I think the JDM cars with butterfly valves are like that, so there's no actual plug on the engine harness we get with motorsets.

Anyway. I have a working JDM butterfly set-up, or at least I think I do. Seems to work.

What I did, was get a +12V, switched power. I did an add-a-circuit on a random fuse, don't remember which. Then you just splice another wire into pin 8 on the ECU. I think I traced the wire back from the ECU connector, stripped the jacket off, and soldered in a little splice. Then ran that wire from the ECU through the firewall via the wheelwell, and joined it with its brother, the +12V wire. Then found a plug from my old KA24E harness that fit the solenoid. Soldered the wires to the plug, doesn't matter which sides gets what I don't think.

Of course, you then have 2 little wires running sorta randomly. Best thing to do would be untape the engine harness, find a more permanent source for the 12V inside it, splice that, and add (or extend, or whatever) the pin 8 wire, and finally get a plug so it's all integrated in the engine harness. That would be classy.

But whatever, haha.

Hope that helps.

So the ecu provides the on/off switch of ground or power? I assume its ground. Power to the solenoid can come from any 12v source like lets say my battery?

[zero_gripS13]

yea pin 8 is ment to be a switced ground, but thats what im having trouble with when i splice into pin 8 its a constant ground, i thinking about just using a rpm switch ....

[davidricardo86]

yea pin 8 is ment to be a switced ground, but thats what im having trouble with when i splice into pin 8 its a constant ground, i thinking about just using a rpm switch ....

It doesnt switch after a certain amount of rpms? I remember reading that it is suppose to switch somewhere in the 3-4k rpm range. Dont quote me on that as i read it/heard it here a long time ago and cant verify for sure.

Maybe someone here can verify this.

[float_6969]

IIRC the stock ECU provides a ground for the solenoid below about 3-4K and then removes the ground path above that. It might be backwards from that, but regardless, it's just a matter of routing the vac lines properly.

[zero_gripS13]

ill have to look into that because i have everything routed that if it where to provide a ground at 3-4k it would opperate properly but it gave me a ground at idle and opened the valves back up,so ill have to see if it act as you state and gives a ground then takes it away if thats true then swaping SOME VAC LINES should make it opperate properly maybe tomorrow ill do more inestigating

[niscort]

pin 8 does not function as on/off

it has valves in the address file

the crossover is relative to eng temp, rpm, and octane rating iirc

[D_Stirls]

^^^Yep that's correct, Well it's what we found when we were adjusting the timing on the dyno.Glen can you see any reason why we go to a point where changing the values had no effect on the timing of the opening?

[zero_gripS13]

ok do u know why when i splice a wire into pin 8 and run it to the ground on my solenoid the valves open at idle?

[D_Stirls]

See whether it's TPS related. while the car is idleing adjust your TPS so the idle switch is open and see if it closes the soleniod.

[zero_gripS13]

ok this is what i foun out today

1 i got it working

2 it is tps related

3 it is a ground that goes open at set rpm. (meaning its grounds at idle then turns the ground off at set rpm to make the switch)

4. it works it seemed to kick in around 4k when i had my girl watch the tack and i reved it and noted when it opened. it does not open at light throttle it has to be atleast 1/4 or more it seems...

now just to permenantly install everything.. thanks for everyones info you have been more than helpful..

anyone has experience making adjustments with rom editor to the engagement of the valves to know how to adjust higher or lower rpm?

[D_Stirls]

We have played with the timing on the dyno with my car when i fitted the bigger turbo. Because the bigger turbo Lags more then the T25 you need to keep the valves closed longer as there is less boost at the point where the valves open.You will find that it is a Map that defines the opening and as well as getting a TPS signal it's also related to load. So if you are just reving it while stationarry it will open at the same point every time because the load will be the same every time. You would know this but it more for the other reading this, for the point of this debate (and many others) think of load a Air Flow, it took me a while to get my head around the load=airflow concept when i first started playing with injected cars.
Modified by D_Stirls at 4:45 AM 7/17/2009

[zero_gripS13]

its a trickey lil thing really these butterflies but i noticed a big improvement from hooking them up...