Bush or Kerry

[ilovedrifting]

"The child would never know the difference?????????????????

So you know what an unborn child feels or does not feel?? Being sucked through a tube and put in the trash???

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS WORLD???????????!!!!!!!!!!!" ---nismodave

an aborted baby doesn't feel being sucked through a tube and thrown in the trash. At the time of most abortions the fetus is a group of cells with out nerve or sensory organs developed. They don't feel anything and it is not inhumane. We know this through proven scientific research, it isn't a theory. How ever partial birth abortions are a different story, but i don't think that they should be banned because it just gives the govt. more power which we don't need

[nismodave]

If you dont want to have children........wear a condom...........take birth control pills..........or dont have sex.

Are people just that dumb that they cant figure birth contol out?

Must be.

[ceniack]

well, i will prolly vote bush. because i feel he is the lesser of the two evils. and as what was stated before, at least he is willing to take a defenant stand. that is what is important in a leader (and as was stated before, congress has more power anyway)

as far as the iraq war.

so what if they didn't formaly declare war on the US. they still posed a threat. and if they could have, they would have attacked us.

and i don't think it is an unfair comparison at all to compair saddam huisen's regime to nazi germany. hitler commited genocide, saddam tried (remember the kurds right after the first gulf war?)

hitler invaded neighbors, saddam invaded neighbors.

the only difference (as far as principles go) is that we tried to stop saddam BEFORE it got outa hand.

appeasment will only buy you time (as we learned in WWII)

and really, i think we had justification to go to iraq, saddam's regime violated at least 19 UN resolutions and the last one even stated that if he didnt' straighted up that military action would be authorized, but saddam called the UN's bluff and the UN did nothing, so we went in there.

the main reason why we won't (or havn't) went into north korea is because of china. the minute we go there, china will not only probably send troops and arms to north korea (they do border them on the north so it wouldn't be hard) but china will also go after tiawan.

as far as the isreal/palestine thing. if it wasn't for the US, israel would not be a nation, so it is very unlikely that we are going to stop supporting them. but that is a situation that i havn't formed an opinion on yet.

and i do agree with the statement that the islamic extreamest (the ones that want to kills us) fear freedom. it is the ones who are in power that fear it. because as soon as their people have it, they will use it, and throw out the leaders who are oppressive and put someone new in. dictators like saddam fear freedom, they fear freedom, because it will take them out of control to where they can't do what they want.

i also think that it is an unfair statement to say that all islamic people hate us, because that is not the case (it would be like someone comming up to you and saying that all people who own imports are slow and ricers)

[gabossie]

You really think we all use abortion as a method of birth control? Come on, don't be so thick skulled. Accidents happen, and some people feel comfortable using abortion as a way out. You are looking at things in such a simplistic, single sided way. Not everything can be explained that way.

[The Mic]

If you dont want to have children........wear a condom...........take birth control pills..........or dont have sex.

Are people just that dumb that they cant figure birth contol out?

Must be.

but there are cases in which people do take all the necessary precautions and STILL have an unwanted child. Non of the counter reproductive stuff is 100% effective guaranteed.

BTW gabossie & Nathan i believe you mean to say "Affect"

EDIT: Hey Nathan know any places that sell t-shirts of your sig? ive looked in ebay and couldnt find any

[AZhitman]

but there are cases in which people do take all the necessary precautions and STILL have an unwanted child. Non of the counter reporductive stuff is 100% effective guaranteed.

That's nature's way of telling you that child was INTENDED to be.

There are NO accidental preganancies. Every child is unique, special and formed for a purpose.

Some of those children grow up to become adults who fail to recognize their uniqueness, importance, and purpose.

p.s. Abstinence is 100% effective - Always has been, always will be.

[The Mic]

nature..... is that a running candidate?

[gabossie]

BTW gabossie & Nathan i believe you mean to say "Affect"

damnitall, I hate that word! I'm a stickler for my own spelling and grammar usually too, but that one has thrown me since elementary school

for t-shirst and stuff, try here http://www.vhemt.org/aboutvhemt.htm#tet

[UncleBen]

I Am I wrong or are all the moderators on this BB appear to be Bush backers?

Does it matter? So we like the guy that is the best for the job, good for us.

[UncleBen]

If you dont want to have children........wear a condom...........take birth control pills..........or dont have sex.

Are people just that dumb that they cant figure birth contol out?

Must be.

110% correct. If you are sexually active, be mature and responsible and protect yourself. If you dont wanna worry about it, dont have sex. Good Lord it isn't like you are going to die without it; it isn't nicotene or something.

This whole abortion issue will always be a matter of discussion I fear, because of everyone having such diverse opinions. My standing on it is this; its wrong. Its murder. I dont give a rats a$$ if you think it isn't murder. Its a child, a person, a gift, whatever you wanna call it. It is a substance WITH LIFE. This being needs nourishment, oxygen, etc etc just like we do. If thats not alive then what is?

Plus having an abortion IMO shows how inmature you are already. Like you always hear; if you are old enough to have sex then you are enough and should be mature enough to accept the consequences, whatever they may be.

[The Mic]

No one seems to mention the death penalty. Who are we to end a life?? In CA, the death penalty exists but its not used often bc ppl are against it. why cant the same be for abortion? theres a double standard some ppl are missing here. Republicans are pro- death penalty but want to ban abortion????

[ceniack]

the difference between the death penalty and abortion that alot of people fail to realize is that the person that receives the death penalty did something to be given it. an unborn child hasn't commited anything like that.

[ilovedrifting]

they want to ban abortion because we feel it is incorrect to kill an innocent being. A murderer getting exicuted is different from abortion in the fact that he isn't innocent. When you kill another being and take away their right to life you forfit (SP?) yours. death penalty is just insurrance that, that person won't harm any other peoplebtw i am a republican but i am pro choice and pro death penaltypro choice because as a male I shouldn't decide what a women does with her body.

[The Mic]

I am a catholic and I think abortion is morally wrong but its not wrong in the eyes of the law. It is something that is frowned upon but its not barred from using. Basically there are 2 things I am afraid of 1) the government's ever-so flirtatious relationship with the church. 2) the gov't's increase in control of our liberty.

EDIT: I think another person should not have a say about another person's actions (aborting) bc they simply do not have enough information to make a decision like that.

[ilovedrifting]

^^ i agree with number 2bigger government = less freedom

[Nathan]

110% correct. If you are sexually active, be mature and responsible and protect yourself. If you dont wanna worry about it, dont have sex. Good Lord it isn't like you are going to die without it; it isn't nicotene or something.

Can I get an AMEN? I've been dating my girlfriend for 3 years and we are VERY close...but yet we still haven't had sex. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want it, but the idea of a baby is insurance enough that I wont have sex without a bare minimum of her being on a form of oral contraceptive. A condom is not even enough to me, besides...they are gross. Thats not even bringing our religious views into it, which she feels especially strongly about. Sex is not necessary, its just a nice perk. If you cant live without it, or live with your decisions, then you shouldn't have any rights.

[JESTER]

And please dont come out saying that Muslims hate freedom and thats why they are attacking the U.S. Dont fool yourself.

Agreed, totally.

I would say they value freedom very much. But some of the leaders and all the terrorlst like Bin Laden hate it. Freedom is what takes their power away.

We just have to get freedom started really good in the middle east, and it will take off. But someone has to make sure the process is not interferred with, by the likes of people like Bin Laden. And of course the fundamental nuts in Iraq can not be let to mess up what we and the good people of Iraq are building.

This is a time of possibilitys in Iraq. Possible freedom and a productive society. Or possible repression under another tyrant's grasp. The people of Iraq deserve the same freedom we have. And I have hope and belive that in the end they will recieve it, and it will work out for the best.

Anyway..........................

[The Mic]

think ego-wise, would Iraq's republic really like it if they were given their liberty by the U.S.? We are proud of our country's revolution and we got our freedom fighting for it. Dont they deserve the same chance by toppling a regime on their own if thats what they really want?

Or maybe they just like being opressed idk, it all goes back to that abortion thing about letting ppl do what they want.

[JESTER]

interesting look on it.

[ilovedrifting]

they couldn't overthrow saddam's regime themselves because they didn't have the supplies. Saddam had strict laws on weapons so it was hard for people to get guns and revolt which back in the day this wasn't a problem, also he had intelligence everywhere listening to everything and whatching for a planned uprising. Conspirators were severialy punished (brutal torture and exicution). When we fought the british for our independence they didn't have the technology saddam had and thus we prevailed. An umprising from iraqis would be near impossible and even if it started they wouldn't win. The Iraqi people needed us to help them gain independence

[Jesda]

This is gay. I'm going to get drunk and pretend this thread never happened.

ERIC CARTMAN FOR PRESIDENT!

[JESTER]

And you were doing so well. I think I am gonna lay off drinking for awhile. I think I might be becoming a drunk. That would suck.

[Jesda]

I cant STAND politics on car forums. Its a pet peeve of mine. I do all my political jibber jabbering at http://www.ircpolitics.org/

[ceniack]

think ego-wise, would Iraq's republic really like it if they were given their liberty by the U.S.? We are proud of our country's revolution and we got our freedom fighting for it. Dont they deserve the same chance by toppling a regime on their own if thats what they really want?

Or maybe they just like being opressed idk, it all goes back to that abortion thing about letting ppl do what they want.

the kurds have been fighting saddam for years, they tried to revolt after the first gulf war and failed.

and don't forget, we did have a little help from the french during ours (they helped keep the british navy at bay)

[VimyJ]

Lets put it this way--if bush it taken out of the presidency, all we've done in iraq will be for nothing because we all know kerry will pull out.

All we have "accomplished" in Iraq is nothing. Kerry knows we can't pull out. bush trapped needlessly us in Iraq. That misguided, simpleton son of a beetch should be tarred, feathered and sent back to his faux ranch in Crawford.

The British flailed about in Iraq 80 years ago and got their a$$es handed to them. Arabs have always had a fear of the West and their crusades and bush simply reinforced the idea which will create more terrorism. There were smarter ways to skin SH but bush is a dummy.

Iraq has nothing to do with the "War on Terror". No AQ connection with Iraq and attacks on the US. WMD? Pathetic.

bush should not be rewarded for his stupidity with another 4 years of "The New American Century".

"I believe in the American people" says bush as he shakes his head in a recent ad. What's up with that?

[Omar]

Lets also go and invade Israel cause what they are doing there is nothing short of a Holocaust of Palestinians. How would you like it if somebody ran a bulldozer through a place you called a house for some odd years and be forced to move somewhere else so that somebody else can build a house for themselves. Or the new wall they are building right through half the country which is illegal and in violation of numerous UN regulations and not to mention its stealing land from palestine and making it Israeli why dont we do anythign "right" in that region? We always look away, and dont give a rats ***, thats why we are hated in the Arab world and just like the Jews we are bringing it on ourselves.

Bravo. Well put.

- Omar

[The Mic]

they couldn't overthrow saddam's regime themselves because they didn't have the supplies. Saddam had strict laws on weapons so it was hard for people to get guns and revolt which back in the day this wasn't a problem, also he had intelligence everywhere listening to everything and whatching for a planned uprising. Conspirators were severialy punished (brutal torture and exicution). When we fought the british for our independence they didn't have the technology saddam had and thus we prevailed. An umprising from iraqis would be near impossible and even if it started they wouldn't win. The Iraqi people needed us to help them gain independence

one word... Kosovo

edit: Yeah the French did help us, but it wasn't as blunt as our invasion in Iraq. i dont think anyone would have liked it if the French came in, kicked the Brits asses, write our constitution, and handing the country over to us while we say: Praise the French for giving us our freedom!!:bowdown

[AZhitman]

That's certainly one way of looking at it. However, keep in mind we had help overthowing the oppressive rule of the crown.

Who cares how they achieve democracy and freedom?

Here's a good example, to put this situation in perspective:

You're getting your arse kicked on the playground by the school bully on a daily basis. As you are a weakling, you have no way to stop this from happening, so it continues.

You can do one of several things:

1) Continue to take the beatings (or worse)

2) Cry to the principal (U.N.?)

3) Enlist some friends (you have none) to fight the bully

4) Take on the bully yourself (and get pounded)

5) Hope one of your classmates has the good heart (and balls) to come to your aid. Stand back and watch him take a 2x4 to the back of said bully's skull, then thank him for his help as bully lies unconscious on the playground. THEN, aforementioned classmate takes the time to reaffirm your value as a person, tell you that you don't HAVE to take a beating from this guy ever again, and teaches you some simple skills to help defend yourself in the future. You become confident, self-assured and hopefully a defender of others.

Does it REALLY matter that the bully NEVER picked on the defender? NO. He did the right thing. Does anyone here think the defender did it to extract money (oil) or adoration from the weakling? NO. Will the bully jack with you again? UNLIKELY. Could things have been done differently? YES. But in the end, does it really matter?

Think about it.

[90Q45blue]

I will most definitely be voting for George Herbert Walker Bush this election. I am voting for him for the following reasons:

1) Foreign Policy - I like the fact that he is not afraid to tell the UN to ***** off when they refuse to come to the aid of a country oppressed and abused by a dictatorial regime. The worst mistake Clinton ever made was being a ***** about foreign policy and acquiescing to the UN's wishes. Don't believe me? Do some research on the Rwandan genocide in 1994. I also like the fact that Bush is a staunch supporter of globalism.

2) Iraq War - Bush made the right decision to fight the war in Iraq, he just did it at the wrong time. Our military is not a big as many people might think. They didn't really have the capacity to go over to Iraq and keep current operations in Afghanistan and other countries afloat and still keep our own country defended. I think Bush should have waited to go to war, but what's done is done. Saddam is gone and I am happy for it. I believe that Kerry threatens to destroy the efforts of our military in Iraq by pulling our troops...which is the WORST thing that could be done at this point. We need to see this through to whatever end.

3) Economy - Bush is doing an awesome job on the economy. He has "purged" our country of the large corporations lying to stockbrokers, our government and investors alike to inflate their stock prices. We no longer have a bull market, but I would rather not have one than have a bull market based on lies. He has also done what every President should do in a recession: cut taxes and increase federal spending. My main concern with Bush on the economy though, is whether he'll have the balls to raise taxes and decrease spending in 2005 when the economy recovers. The rich should get bigger tax cuts because they drive the economy. The guy making $40,000 a year doesn't do anything for our economy when he gets a tax cut. He pays his bills, provides for his children, which is honorable and right. He is not in a position to be able to invest that money into the economy the way a wealthy businessman can. The poor get enough already IMO.

4) Social Programs - Bush does not support increasing aid to programs such as Social Security and welfare. I agree with this. He does, however, support getting prescription drugs to the people that need them. Good stance on the issue IMO. Healthcare is for everyone, wealth is not.

5) John Kerry - I can't stand the man. He does not seem authentic. I can't get a read on what he really stands for. He is trying too much to be a centrist, like Clinton was, but when Bush is taking strong stances he can't just sit there and flip-flop, like he's doing.

Nick

p.s. a word on Michael Moore: as long as you realize that the movie Farenheit 9/11 has the SAME ACCURACY as Finding Nemo and The Matrix, then enjoy the movie. What irks me the most about that piece of trash person is that he presents his movie like it's true, like everything he says is accurate. What he doesn't tell you is that the only reason he's not being sued is because he has never made a documentary, he makes movies. He's not different from Steven Spielberg, Todd Phillips and Peter Jackson. He is not presenting to you a piece of news. He's entertaining you. For lying about who he is and what he's making, I detest him.

[Bubba1]

Wow, a lot's been happening since I signed off. Great thread

To the anti abortion guys. Might want to think a bit more about your stance. If your daughter. mother or wife was violently gang raped for example, (god forbid), and got pregnant as a result. In an anti-abortion society, the poor victim will be forced to carry and bear that child. There are other scenario's just as ugly. Trust me, your view would change drastically if the issue hit you close to home. It also astonishes me that any woman would give up such a choice and endorse such a program. And if you're going to eliminate abortions, you better figure out what you're going to do with ALL those unwanted children. There aren't people lining up to adopt the available adoptable children now. What do you think is going to happen when that number of children doubles/triples/quadruples, etc. Think about it. Saying that the problem can be fixed if people simply didn't have sex or if they always use protection, is unrealistic and simplistic. There are always going to be women and teen girls that get pregnant at the wrong time regardless of rules you set up. I'm not suggesting eliminating adoption, but denying a woman her right to choose what to do with her body is way wrong in my book.

And Omar, there's two sides to every story. And the Palestinians are behaving as badly if not worse toward Israel. Does strapping bombs to a Palestinian kid and convincing them to blow themselves up and killing as many innocent civilians as possible any better? Gimme a break. There is blame to be shared by both Israel and the Palestinians. There is also some blame to be shared by the adjoining arab countries as well, which no ones seems to want to address. Until the Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist and stop the terrorism nonsense, and when Israel withdraws from the settlements that they're not entitled to, it's gonna remain ugly.