building a 600+ hp kade

[keepingthe240]

http://www.formula1.com/insigh....html

[WDRacing]

I wish you tons of luck! Getting the KA to rev that high will be a task for sure...once again though, remember this isn't a Honda motor and doesn't need to rev to 8k to make power...but it's a great goal, and keep us posted on your process...I would looove to make 600hp out of my KA!

Bout time you started posting in here Brit...

[Chris111]

i'm seriously speachless after reading this thread.

Have you thought about other turbo options since your reving to 9500?

[WDRacing]

I'm sure he'll be able to get over 8000, but 9500 will be difficult with alot of rebuilding after each race.

[deezlins]

I need:

Rods - need to handle up to 1K hp and be LIGHT(I have no intention of hitting 1000hp EVER but would like the parts to be alot stronger than what they need to be...)Pistons - same needs as rodsWrist pins - Ti if possible Valve Train - I need to find parts (or a kit) that will work together at 9500rpm and not introduce the valves to the pistons domes....Cams - Power band from 4000 to 9500. I dont care about idle and sub 4k performanceIntake maifold- Looking for individual TB's like the TODA Sports Injection Kitfor hondas..ill build the pressure box if needed or mabey the whole damn thing.Fly Wheel - Needs to be strong...really frigging strongDownpipe - ...

as someone said before ka24de.com says they have pauter titanium rods available by custom order. It says the regular pauter rods are rated to 800+ hp.

you will probably have to get a custom ground cam, maybe talk to JWT (www.jimwolftechnology.com) about that?

as for the intake manifold, you will probably have to get it custom made or make it yourself.

Id get the downpipe made at a good exhaust shop, you'd want it mandrel bent and probably atleast 3.5", maybe preferably about 4" i'd think

im not sure which flywheel would be best

i dunno if you'd want/need titanium valves, or if stainless steel would workka24de.com has stainless steel valves that are black nitrided, and inconel exhaust valves. They also have titanium retainers and chrome/silicon dual valve springs that are 25% stiffer than stock (i dunno what kind of stiffness you'd need)

ka24de.com has supertech coated racing pistons, and ross forged pistonsIf you didnt get pistons that are already coated you might want to check out someplace like swain coatings (www.swaintech.com), they have all kinds of coatings for just about everything you would ever want coated to do with an engine. I dunno about the weights of different pistons, and im not sure about how much power the above pistons can hold, i would guess a good bit though. Both the Ross and Supertech pistons both come with chrome-moly wrist pins, i dunno if you could get custom titanium ones made, id just ask em about it.

well i hope this helped, goodluck with the project
Modified by deezlins at 1:59 AM 2/1/2005

[Nismo_Freak]

Zepp mellow down a bit.

Guys, Austin Silvia is a cool person... let's let it go.

Crower can produce the Titanium rods for ~$1500 / set. The KA has a fairly long rod so as WDRacing stated this would be a good start for lightening the rotating assembly.

Wrist pins could be produced in titanium and will be a good start since their size is constrained by the rod small end journal diameter.

However, since the KA titanium rods will need to be custom made you should look into doing something like this.

1. Have the rods made with common Chevy small end journal diameters.

2. Have a custom piston produced by Arias to accept the variation in wristpin diameter into the skirt. I would suggest an 8:1 compression ratio, as this will allow you to maintain proper quench in the head by allowing the usage of a thinner headgasket to maintain your compression ratio. (ie. not using the headgasket to drop the CR)

3. Use an off the shelf Chevy titanium wrist pin, and have it machined for length correction.

Moly coated piston skirts, swaintech crowns to reduce piston heating and engine drag.

I'd keep the bore as narrow as possible on the engine to save grams off the piston. The KA has ample amounts of displacement.

[Chris111]

What about the crank? Does anyone even make a lightend crank for the ka?

[Nismo_Freak]

What about the crank? Does anyone even make a lightend crank for the ka?

No, but you could certainly machine a stock crank.

[WDRacing]

Usually during the balancing procedure, the machinist will remove material and lighten the crank. Things like knife edging the counter weights. In some cases though, weight may actually be added for balancing.

Either way the stock crank is a monster when combined with the factory stud girdle.

[stuckinwisconsin]

First : Nismo_Freak - Im taking your advice about the 'custom' rod/piston combo.

Second: "why build this motor." - I already answered that question - its a challange. To my knowledge nobody has built a 600hp KA that gets driven daily and does not need rebuilding every 500 miles..... I promise this one will make well in excess of 500hp (600hp when tuned) and will go for a long time before it needs to be rebuilt. If i was putting this kind of effort into a 2jzgte I would be expecting 1200hp....when done this KA will be functioning at its balanced limit for reliability/power output.

Third - "9 K rpms is nuts!!" I know....no way is this going to happen. I ran more numbers and decided, rather strongly in fact, against this. Looks like im going to be keeping it right around 8200 tops. With the weight thats being shaved there should be a minimal increase in stress on the rod, granted the speeds are going up (alot) but the drop in mass compensates (enough) for the increase in piston speed. The first motor i ever built was a na honda b16 that ran in my rex (This is my 5th motor overall but only my second forced induction). When that b16 was done it spun to 9500 easy.. and could have safely gone to 10000..and with NA's if you can keep the air flowing you add gobs of power the faster you spin them. F1 motors hover around 19-22,000 rpm.....and they make gobs of power up there. Thats why I wanted to really spin the crap out of this motor.

Update on the motor - The crank will be coming back from lopez early next week - Im pretty hyped about getting this back.

Rods - Ordered a set of pauters (similar to the ones on Ka24de.com) through my local shop - its going to take 2-3 weeks to get them however frigging one offs. Im taking Nismo_Freaks advice on this one and reworking a few things with the rod/piston so I can use the 'off the shelf' chevy wrist pins.

Pistons - Im talking to my local shop and setting up a custom order from Arias - this should happen by the end of next week, Ill update when their ordered.

Intake Manifold - Im building this. I have to get my cylinder head back (still at the shop..i just have to get of my arse and go get it) before I can start any real work on it in autocad but when im done designing it ill post some renderings on the board for review before I go and fab it all up.

[hysteria]

thanks for the reply about motives...by the way i was "austinsilvia" incognitothat's my brothers account like i said. was just doing "quick reply". got tired of using his name so i made my own account.

good luck with the project.

b16a2?... 170 hp and 1.6 liter NA... wow, but no comment on torque.

how much power were you making with that b16? torque?

[IvanAtSPRacing]

Actually, I have built a 600 HP KA that gets driven daily. Of course its not at 600 HP all the time. There are actually more out there, Rick from KA-T.org, Duy, etc. All cars that are driven and make that much HP. Its nothing new, just not comon.

What did you get done to your crank? I dont believe you can do any more to a crank then Norbert and I have done to ours. Knife edge, ballance, shotpeen, cryo, nitride, radius oil galleys, etc

Are you having Pauter make you Ti rods? Watch out with the Pauters, the X beam comes too close to the bottom of the cylinder and you have to clearance for them. I dont see the purpose of using Chevy wrist pins. If you were going to build a crank, it would make sense to go with a stroke and rod journals that would work with comon Chevy stuff but for wrist pins only... dont think the money is worth it. If you didnt get the Ti rods, then Crower would have been a better choice as they are lighter and have the same rating for power.

Arias are a good choice for pistons. Again, off the shelf would be just fine. Just watch the ring end gaps.

Lets see what you come up with for an intake manifold. The trickey part is the damn waterneck.

[DRIFTEADOR]

an undersquare design, like that of the ka motor, isn't rpm friendly primarily because of friction caused by the higher piston speeds, no? other than that the motor would be fairly rev happy given its near perfect r:s. my question, how much does skirt coating help in reducing this friction? assuming the motor makes power up top, what would be a reasonable redline after coating?

[stuckinwisconsin]

the coating will reduce frictional losses...but rod length is going to determine max rpm more than swain coatings.

[stuckinwisconsin]

I started with a B16B out of a JDM 98 Civic Type R - that dynoed at 180hp at the crank. The factory rated that motor at 185..it was in good condition and thats about 115 HP/L. Im not getting into what all I did to this poor bastard but it was quite a bit..lots of mugen and toda parts...this thing was a beast(for a non-turbo'd honda) . when I was done and it was tuned the HP/l went to about 150 hp/l so the motor was putting out 241.2 hp @ 9200 rpm and trq was 156.6@7500. 240/156 NA out of a 1.6 is decent but not to good ..Ferraris f1 motors are WELL over 300 HP/L NA (with MAJOR limits to what you can do.) ..I need to double my numbers and then im getting good But ill be done with college soon enough and when I get a 'real' job Ill be able to do more 'work' on getting up to that number..ill be doing it for a living.

After this engine is done im back to square one on finding a new motor to build up and prove out my 'design'...then I get to do my own from scratch (thesis project..WoOT) . The block, heads,crank...everything....shiver.
Modified by stuckinwisconsin at 5:36 PM 2/15/2005

[Bloodstone]

I know a guy that's having a 34' ford coupe custome built form the ground up. He's putting about $70,000 total into it. Moral of the story. It doesn't matter what everyone says. If you got the money, and you want to do it, then it can be done. Over half that car is being custom built. If anything, talk to some drag racers, and see what materials, and shops they use.

[nonchalant rage]

i know you just sent your stock crank to the shop and all but...if you really want to rev the ka higher, you could destroke it by using the ka20de crank, with some custom rods. maybe bore it out to keep the displacement. the hard part would be finding a ka20de crank. you could always order it direct from nissan, or just somehow find a ka20de longblock in japan somewhere. the engine comes in the caravan and i believe their frontier. hope this helps

[deezlins]

Watch out with the Pauters, the X beam comes too close to the bottom of the cylinder and you have to clearance for them.

is that the case with all pauter rods for the ka (like on ka24de.com)?

[95_240sx]

Actually, I have built a 600 HP KA that gets driven daily. Of course its not at 600 HP all the time. There are actually more out there, Rick from KA-T.org, Duy, etc. All cars that are driven and make that much HP. Its nothing new, just not comon.

What did you get done to your crank? I dont believe you can do any more to a crank then Norbert and I have done to ours. Knife edge, ballance, shotpeen, cryo, nitride, radius oil galleys, etc

Are you having Pauter make you Ti rods? Watch out with the Pauters, the X beam comes too close to the bottom of the cylinder and you have to clearance for them. I dont see the purpose of using Chevy wrist pins. If you were going to build a crank, it would make sense to go with a stroke and rod journals that would work with comon Chevy stuff but for wrist pins only... dont think the money is worth it. If you didnt get the Ti rods, then Crower would have been a better choice as they are lighter and have the same rating for power.

Arias are a good choice for pistons. Again, off the shelf would be just fine. Just watch the ring end gaps.

Lets see what you come up with for an intake manifold. The trickey part is the damn waterneck.

Thanks for the love Ivan....I'm still fixing to knock you off the map hahaha

Rickhttp://www.ka-t.org

[Nismo_Freak]

i know you just sent your stock crank to the shop and all but...if you really want to rev the ka higher, you could destroke it by using the ka20de crank, with some custom rods. maybe bore it out to keep the displacement. the hard part would be finding a ka20de crank. you could always order it direct from nissan, or just somehow find a ka20de longblock in japan somewhere. the engine comes in the caravan and i believe their frontier. hope this helps

That would honestly negate the benefits of the KA engine and hamper it's ability to turn out torque. The SR is better suited in 2.0L capacity to output torque thanks to it's high port design. The KA unfortuneatly doesn't share this benefit, which is both bad and good at the same time. I say good because in order for the cams and valves to be mounted in such an angle required rockers... rockers are what limit the SR engines potential for RPM. The KA is a good torque maker thanks to it's long stroke.... it is it's defining trait.

I think a KA-T singing to the tune of 8000+ will more than satisfy the RPM department.