Budget Turbo Planning

[StrangeLove]

I have been messing around with the idea of turbocharging my s14 for quite awhile now. I have come to the conclusion that KA-T is the most cost efficient route. If I am going to do this I will be on an extreme Budget (Broke college student). Which isn't a totally bad thing, since I only want around 180rwhp. Nothing outlandish, since this is my daily driver. After researching on how turbos work, what is needed, and everything that goes along with turbo charging I have come up with a budget setup.

EXAMPLES OF WHAT KIND OF PARTS ARE OUT THERE. I haven't bought anything, this is just some of the items and prices I have found after brief searching. Better deals on better quality parts could be found if you are lucky.

SSA Manifold:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1

I have always heard that SSA is worthless, but for my plans it should do just fine. I have seen quite a few low boost KA-Ts using it, and its working as intended.

T25 Turbo:zerothread?id=147790

Stock SR turbo. Quick spool up, plenty of power for my plans, easy to find, cheap.

Blowoff valve:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

I read that a stock mitsubishi bov works well with a KA-T. I could be wrong though, if you have a better suggestion for a low budget bov, let me know.

FMU:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

There is alot of debate about using a FMU as fuel management. The majority of people will say to use a safc and stock SR injectors. A FMU will work just fine for this setup, there won't be any tuning, and the A/F ratios will run rich with a 8:1.

Oil Lines:http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/ka24et.html

Complete oiline setup from JGS for the KA24DE using a T25 turbo. "Basically everything you need to plumb in oil to and from most T25 and T28 turbosIncludes TA004-GT, TA044, and a TA046 bung*"

Turbo Elbow/Downpipe:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1

I'm not too sure about using the SR20 DP. The JGS turbo starter kit uses it. It will bolt to the stock cat, but I'm not sure about the dp to turbo connection. Will the stock turbo elbow fit? Or should a should a stock elbow be used and a dp custom made? Suggestions?

Intake piping:Just a pipe from turbo outlet to throttlebody, no intercooler. Before I get yelled at for even suggesting a non-intercooled setup let me explain. Many sources have stated that intercooling under 8psi isn't needed. Now, take a look at the stock z31 300zx. It is turbocharged as we all know, and if I remember correctly it is set at 6.7psi stock. The z31 has no intercooler, just a pipe from turbo to TB. I have concluded that for the 4-5psi an intercooler won't be necessary.

I believe that covers everything, and as you can see it would be an extremely inexpensive setup. I know the quality of the products is relatively low, I won't be pushing them very hard. If I left something or got my information wrong, please feel free to correct me.

[Chezedik]

No, looks like you got it, and could be turbo for about 500 bux. I wish you the best of luck. And I agree with you about the not needing an intercooler, but I think at such a low boost with that turbo, you will not see the results you are hoping for. 7 psi would probably do it, though. Also, I think an 8:1 may be a bit much for this setup, I think a 6:1 should be enough.

[fiznat]

I wouldn’t recommend that setup to anyone looking for even moderate amounts of boost, but it looks like your priorities and goals are well in line with the parts that you've chosen. As long as you dont get crazy or greedy with the boost, I see no reason why that setup shouldn’t be perfectly fine.

The only thing I can think of adding is perhaps a boost an oil pressure gauge. You want to make sure you're staying within those levels that your setup is capable of, and imo any time you mess with the stock oiling system (like adding turbo oil plumbing), the overall pressure should be monitored at all times. Besides that though, go for it!

[StrangeLove]

No, looks like you got it, and could be turbo for about 500 bux. I wish you the best of luck. And I agree with you about the not needing an intercooler, but I think at such a low boost with that turbo, you will not see the results you are hoping for. 7 psi would probably do it, though. Also, I think an 8:1 may be a bit much for this setup, I think a 6:1 should be enough.

I sort of agree with the lack of power at 5psi with the t25. It is a rather small turbo. I could go with a T3 and keep the 8:1 FMU and get abit more horsepower from the same boost level. The only problem I see with the T3 is finding one for a decent price. I know the z31 came with a T3 stock, but It has a weird things to it that I'm not too sure about. Also, the turbo elbow and downpipe situation arises. I'm still not sure of which parts I can use to plumb the turbo to exhaust. Can someone explain about using a z31 T3 in a KA-T setup?

The only thing I can think of adding is perhaps a boost an oil pressure gauge. You want to make sure you're staying within those levels that your setup is capable of, and imo any time you mess with the stock oiling system (like adding turbo oil plumbing), the overall pressure should be monitored at all times. Besides that though, go for it!

I think a few gauges could be worked into the budget. I had forgot about those.

[Jookmasta]

might as well thrown in some new spark plugs, new oil and filter, and new air filter. o also throw in a new fuel filter and i guess u should be ok with the t25 that is. now if u decide on a t3, well u would either have to get a new mani or modify that ssac manifold (not sure if a t3 would fit down there). also u will probably be running 8psi from stock as thats what i'm running. u will need the turbo elbow so that u can use a coupler to connect ur hotpipe to the the turbo outlet. i suggest at least a boost and oil pressure gauge.

[KATwo40]

For what it's worth, my first turbo setup was as follows:

TD04H-13C (much like T-25...slightly smaller)SSA Topmount manifoldCustom downpipe to stock exhaust370'sOLD SAFC (knob-style)Stock pumpNon-intercooled (used some hose couplers and a modified CAI from Ebay).

I made 190whp/200wtq on 6psi with this setup. It was a great turbo, very fast throttle response, low boost threshold, etc. However, after adding the intercooler, I was able to hit 10psi no problem.

BTW, I still have that turbo and it's for sale. It has no more than 15k miles on it since I had it fully rebuilt (new wheels, bearings, shaft, etc.) by High Tech Turbo in Utah. I just ordered a replacement today (T3/T04E) so I can hit the 300whp mark.

I'd sell you this TD04H-13C for $300 bucks. It's internally gated and has an on-board bypass valve, so you won't have to use a BoV at all, and you don't get stumbling issues, because it dumps into the compressor inlet. I also have the downpipe, I'd throw that in with the deal. You can get a topmount SSA mani on eBay for about $150 right now. It bolts right up to it.

Email me: [email protected] for pics, further discussion about this turo.

[StrangeLove]

KATwo40, I sent you an e-mail. You brought up something interesting, the ebay CAI. I could easily hack that into my turbo to TB pipe, and then use the filter part for my intake for under $50. Another problem solved

[Chezedik]

The problem with the Z31 T3 is a extra set of studs, but they can be removed and the holes welded up (or not, I am not going to) and then it is the same as the 5 bolt flange.

[crzycav86]

That seems like the ideal setup for someone with a basic, low power setup in mind. I just suggest 2 more parts: a fuel pump, and the stock sr smic/piping.

Both are cheap, both are very important.

Fuel pumps flow less when put under pressure. Your stock pump will have to push 90 psi of fuel with an 8:1 fmu, which it won't be able to do reliably for very long. A walbro is only $90. It should be on everyone's basic kat parts list.... yours too.

Also, since you're using the ssautochrome manifold and sr turbo, you might as well use the smic and piping/bov as well. Everything will practically drop in, and again, it's a cheap power/reliability adder. You're gonna need a new intake anyway, and this one will already have a bov. Spend a little extra on something that will give you more power and less headache.

[Chezedik]

True nuff, you would still be under a grand, so a SMIC is worth having.

[KATwo40]

at 4-5psi a SMIC would do more harm than good. It would only act as a flow-restrictor more than it would a heat exchanger.

[Chezedik]

Yeah, but you can get a little more boost. With an SR T25, I just don't think that little amount of boost will justify the price. With the SMIC you can hit 7psi and make it worth doing.

[Mustangs_Suck]

I personally have the T25, running 7psi, with the SSA manifold. It's not the best, and it warped very quickly...got it re-bored out so it's better flowing now, but still just made of crappy material, but for the price you really can't go wrong if you just want a budget set up.

I put down 200rwhp/205rwtq with this set up @ 7psi. I have a SAFC and 370cc injectors with a walbro fuel pump for my fuel management.

I had the stock radiator, clutch fan, and a HUGE FMIC and it was still overheating badly. I replaced the t-stat, waterpump and it still was overheating like mad. I bought a Koyo Radiator and a 12" flex-a-lite fan, and it never goes over normal operating temp now, even when boosting in 90 degree heat. So you *might* have to upgrade...i guess it depends on how your motor is doing. Mine's getting a bit tired..lower than recommended compression and 112k on the clock with all stock parts, but it still takes whatever i give it *knock on wood* Been boosting for a good 5k miles now.

You'll be pleased with the set up I think if the SSA manifold treats you nicely. With proper tuning you'll be around my numbers, and run mid-high 13's in the 1/4 mile.... It's plenty of power in such a light car, and believe me, it's fun as hell.

[KATwo40]

Yeah, but you can get a little more boost. With an SR T25, I just don't think that little amount of boost will justify the price. With the SMIC you can hit 7psi and make it worth doing.

I wouldn't recommend 7psi with his intended fuel setup (stock injectors, pump and FMU).

Furthermore, just because an intercooler came on a car from the factory, doesn't mean it's adequate for other applications. There are many factors to consider when building a proper intercooler system. One of the biggest mistakes people make is slapping just any old intercooler on because "any is better than none." This is not true.

With proper timing (base around 15*BTDC) and a proper fuel ratio (even with the FMU) he can hit the 180 mark he wants on less than 7psi. I ran non-intercooled for months on 6-7psi on a small turbo, much like the T25 and made 190whp/200wtq with no blow-ups. Only reason I added the intercooler is because I knew I'd be hitting 10+psi and then upgrading the turbo later.

Attn: Mustangs_Suck

Your mani warped? In what area? The tubes? The flange (turbo)? The flanges (head)? I'm interested to know about this. Mostly, I've heard of them cracking. I need to know what to look for. I'm running a topmount SSA mani.

Thanks!

[Chezedik]

I guess I understand your point about using no cooler, but you can't run that low of boost, you are out of the efficiency range. And plenty of people have ran FMUs to higher boost pressures than that. The IAP stage one kit ran a 12:1 to 8psi. So I think an 8:1 on a walbro would be fine. But the SAFC and 370s would be a better bet.

[KATwo40]

I took a look at the T25 compressor map, and you're correct. At 4-5psi, it won't even be up into the highest efficiency range.

However, he could run 6-7psi, non-intercooled, using the FMU and probably be ok. I would NOT recommend the stock fuel pump.

I'd like to add, that while I'm offering up support for a non-intercooled, budget turbo system, I'm hardly an advocate. Whenever you cheap out on something like this, you pay for what you get.

By "pay for what you get," I mean that you'll suffer eventually from your lack of proper equipment. Maybe sooner maybe later. But, I promise you, you'll have some fun for a year, then want more power. At that time, you'll find yourself nearly rebuilding the entire kit to achieve more.

I STRONGLY suggest you reconsider the "el cheapo" turbo setup. You'll be much better off to wait a few more months until you can afford additional pieces, such as SAFC or BikiRom, some larger injectors and an intercooler (FMIC). This way, the possiblility for engine disaster is a little less and you'll have much more room for growth later on.

[StrangeLove]

I took abit of everyones advice.

I went ahead and bought a SR SMIC ($31 on ebay ), and I'll buy a new fuel pump. I don't think pushing the stock injectors past 6psi is worth it. Technically they can handle more, but I'm not going to risk it (although I am going to take a risk on nearly all my other parts ).

I've been driving around a stockish s14 for 2 years, when I got my exhaust it felt like a new car, and that was maybe 8hp. I only plan on running 5-6psi. Thats plenty of boost for 40-50hp. That'll be a huge difference. I drove a stock MK3 supra that was only running 5psi of boost. That probably put it at 200rwhp. It was very fast, even at 3600lbs. I've also riden in a s13 with a sr20 at stock boost, which puts out 180-190whp, it had plenty of speed. Since I haven't had a chance to ride in a KA-T, Judging by other cars I'm assuming that 180whp in my 240 will make me plenty happy.

To conclude abit:

SSA ManifoldStock SR T25Stock SR SMIC with BOVJGS Oil line kitCustom DownpipeFMU at 8:1Stock InjectorsWalbro Fuel PumpCustom Intercooler PipesEbay Air Filter/Intake

5-6psi of boost, running rich, estimated 180whp, and a smile on my face

[KATwo40]

Good call on the pump and SMIC. At least you can go up later with some injectors and more appropriate fuel management.

[jmwenick]

Thats definetly going to be a fun, instant boost setup. Thats probably the exact setup I will use when I build my track car. Good luck with it and HAVE FUN!!

[Edub1]

You're going to need intake pipe and an exhaust.

For 185HP you could also go with cams, exhaust and a good tune. It would be a lot less trouble. Also, people typicaly don't have good experiences with $125 turbos.

[KATwo40]

I made 190whp / 200wtq on a slightly smaller turbo with stock exhaust and a custom downpipe. Let me clarify...stock 150k miles exhaust...rattling, crunching, etc...nasty stuff.

Oh, that was non-intercooled, with the old nasty knob-style SAFC...working incorrectly at that. haha

And yes, used turbochargers generally suck balls, especially$125 units.

[Mustangs_Suck]

Attn: Mustangs_Suck

Your mani warped? In what area? The tubes? The flange (turbo)? The flanges (head)? I'm interested to know about this. Mostly, I've heard of them cracking. I need to know what to look for. I'm running a topmount SSA mani.

Thanks!

The tubes warped on the manifold. they were out of place by a few 16th's of an inch, i'm lucky they didn't crack.

[StrangeLove]

You're going to need intake pipe and an exhaust.

For 185HP you could also go with cams, exhaust and a good tune. It would be a lot less trouble. Also, people typicaly don't have good experiences with $125 turbos.

If I could get 180rwhp with a N/A KA for under 1k, I'd love it. I really don't think its possible.

I might have to reconsider my turbo plans, my motor has 142k miles, with the last 15k being filled with spirited driving. Perhaps I should get my compression checked

[KATwo40]

I boosted mine when it had over 140k on it. It now has 165k-ish and still running strong.

I haven't checked the compression since I've owned it.

[Edub1]

You can add a good 35HP with a good cam, tune & exhaust for well under $1000.

Problem with old turbos is that when they go, they go. I'd expect to pay at least $250 for a turbo worth using.

[StrangeLove]

My turbo plans are still on. I just picked up a stock SR turbo in good condition for $180 and that stock SR intercooler.

Manifold is coming next.

[emperor_lunchbox]

let me know how this works out, I am very interested in doing something similar. I dont feel that the IAP kit is worth 3200 and I dont like any of the others, so depending on your results I may have to go a similar route as you.

[Bauholzwolf]

Could a setup like this be used as a base for eventual number chasing? Just to get the car turbocharged initially, you know.

[hannibal]

Sure, as long as the number youre chasing is over ~250whp. Thats about as much as that turbo will do.

[StrangeLove]

I'm going to be doing nearly the same thing as S13DRFT89

Here are the pics of his setup http://www.putfile.com/s13drft89

Those pics gave me a good idea of how my piping is going to be done, I'm most likely going to be doing it the same way. Stock SR20 hotpipe, and then a few abs connectors and the stock intake tube for the cold side. Then using the ebay air filter and more abs for the intake.

Btw, I have a 2.5" resonated BRM exhaust. I've had it for about a year now.