Brand new 24 sl and Peed off

[D1dad]

Yes! I’m pissed.

[D1dad]

Was the tires. I actually think there was probably nothing wrong with the wheel bearings. I guessed tires all along, but the tech said no. Now to fight with Nissan about some sort of reimbursement. If anyone sees hankooks that were made in KOREA, I’d demand something else if I were buying new.

[D1dad]

I got the bugs worked out of this thing. Mostly tires and honestly don’t think the wheel bearings were bad. Shame on Nissan! Hankooks are bad enough, but they could have at least used ones made in the states like they did on my rogue and 21 Altima. Either way, the new continentals are night and day. Now I’m going to change the oil, @1000 miles and wanna make sure they didn’t slap a plastic oil pan on the 2.5, To totally piss me off?
I also had to power bleed the brakes yesterday. The pedal had no feel, even after breaking in the pads. Nissan really did sell me a Friday car that rolled off the line at quitting time. The wife likes it, so I guess that’s all that matters. I feel like I bought $33k full of lazy craftsmanship. My 21 and even my 18 were dead nuts perfect. The engine in this thing sounds like a tin can. What if anything did they change here vstar?

[VStar650CL]

Except for electronics, there are zero differences between the '21 and '24 that I'm aware of. Of course, we haven't worked on a lot of '24's yet, so don't take that as definitive. I think you can definitively say that car was built on a Friday.

[D1dad]

Vstar,
If you get a chance, check a 24, new or otherwise and let me know if a big wiring harness runs right down the middle of the floorboard on the drivers side. My 21 has a slight hump from the harness. This 24 has such a dramatic hump from the harness that you can see it and feel it under the floor mat. I can’t believe that where ever this harness goes that it was engineered to be beat on by foot traffic?

[VStar650CL]

The only harness running down the floor should be the console leg of the Main Harness, and that's all underneath the console. The Body Harnesses run out to the seats, but the sections that go there run along the floor gussets and shouldn't be exposed. Maybe you can post a pic of the exact area?

[D1dad]

It actually appears to some sort of hard foam? I was able to run my hand under the carpet from the top. Definitely not a harness but some sort of sound deadener.

[VStar650CL]

There's a big block of molded foam in the floorpan underneath the carpet on both sides. That's pretty standard for almost everything Nissan.

[D1dad]

I don’t know if it’s cocked sideways or what. But definitely foam and a bulge unlike any of my other cars. I drove this thing to Detroit today which is about 150 miles away of dead flat interstate. I hooked my scanguage up about half way there to check cvt and water temp and was shocked. Water was around 205, not horrible but higher than the rogue or my 21. The cvt temp was 213 doing 85! I about chit. None of my other Nissans run that warm. Granted it was almost 90 degrees. The car has less than 1500 miles on it so maybe it’s not broke in? Did they do something different to the cvt from 21 to 24? At those temps Nissan will be replacing this thing well before 60k. I did hook my scanguage to a 24 sv I had for a rental in Florida and that thing ran hot as well.

[VStar650CL]

They did change the external plumbing substantially on the gen6's along with the beefier guts. I haven't checked the run temps on one over a long trip since I don't own one, but given that its primary cooling is the heat exchanger, I'd pretty much expect higher engine temperatures to be reflected one-to-one in the transmission. Kind of weird if those temps are characteristic, though -- because we still don't replace a whole lot of those trannies compared to the gen5's. Maybe the new VB's are more heat tolerant too, not just the belts.

[D1dad]

I’m hoping that’s the case. I’m a hertz presidential circle member so I can pick whatever car I want that’s not a super/luxury car. I always pick Nissan. I took my scanguage on a 2 week business trip to Florida and monitored a 24 Altima sv. Granted, it was Florida, but that thing ran 205-220 the whole time. It had 20k on it and performed flawlessly but I was still skeptical. My 21 coolant never gets over 190 where this one ran 205 on the regular. I’ll probably service the transmission at 10k. They didn’t come out with some suppression of ns3 that your aware of? Eneos still recommends their ns3 on a 24, so I wouldn’t think so.

[VStar650CL]

I just pored over the ESM a little bit and I don't see a thing different between the '21 and '24 trannies or cooling systems. The only thing I can imagine is something in software, maybe the ECM is holding the grille shutter closed longer.

Incidentally, I'm in your neck of the woods right now on vaykay (Cincinnati) after a trip through Oshkosh, the UP, and down through Michigan main. Our '13 never topped 170F with the Hayden 697 and my beehive killer gizmo, even with air temps in the low 90's and several continuous runs of 4+ hours. Color me very happy about that.

[D1dad]

Had I have known that I’d have paid for your fuel on your trip to swing by and install my cooler on the rogue. Hope you loved the UP as much as us folks who have access to it and take it for granted. There’s something different on the 24 for sure. transmission is smoother, runs hotter and the AC will keep a side of beef frozen. I’ve never had an AC that I have to turn up to 72 just to not freeze.

[VStar650CL]

That's kind of weird, because the A/C's aren't any different between '21 and '24 either. They're both R1234yf systems and I'm pretty sure they use the same compressor and evap. BTW, R1234yf is very quirky. It often "cold spots" in the evap when it gets low, so it's common for it to blow warm on one side of the car and cold on the other. We mistakenly replaced at least two mix servos before we discovered the tendency. It also takes very little leakage to make it act up, most systems take 0.4 Kg and you'll see symptoms around 0.33 Kg. They won't simply cool half-a$$ with a half charge like an R134 system.

[D1dad]

Just drove it to Chicago yesterday in 90 degrees on flat ground. Cvt temps held at 210. I’m going to pull the belly pan this weekend and see if they overfilled this thing. I called my dealer and they couldn’t tell me if that was too hot. The service manage was going to check with a tech and call me back. I got no call back. I told them based off of my other 2, this was to hot unless the newer altimas are known for higher temps. I got the typical “we haven’t had any issues with them”. Is their a tech line that they could reach out to?

[VStar650CL]

Yes, but only if you show up and let them write a service ticket. TechLine won't talk to us without an RO. I'll get better results from our DTS or FSM, let me see if I can get some input from one of them tomorrow when I'm back at the shop.

About how many miles does it take for it to hit peak temperature on the highway?

[D1dad]

Thanks Vstar. I’d say from stone cold to over 200 happens within 20 miles. I just had to drive 40 miles and the outside temp had dropped to 72 degrees. On a back road highway I had the cruise set at 70 and I was running 199 on flat road and topped out at 204 going up a slight incline when the cruise revved up the rpm’s.

[VStar650CL]

Gotcha. In that case, I think I'll find a '24 lot car and see how hot it runs. I'll see if I have time tomorrow, they may have a very full plate for me after being on vaykay for 16 days.

[D1dad]

I just wonder if they overfilled this thing from the factory? I saw a juke forum saying exactly the same thing. My 21 never gets close to 200 no matter how I drive it, or what the terrain or outside temps are. My rogue fully loaded topped out at 220 but that was in 97 degree weather reaching the top of the blue ridge mountains which was an 20 mile climb. Otherwise it’s 180-190. It’s under warranty obviously but I don’t wanna go through that mess if I can head it off. I also noticed that once this thing gets the temps up it doesn’t cool off as fast as the other 2 when you let off highway speeds. If it’s normal than fine, but I could see a trip to Myrtle beach throwing this thing into safe mode in the Appalachians.

[VStar650CL]

No, I'm thinking it's either overfull or there's some kind of manufacturing debris in the heat exchanger. That's a whole lot of thermal mass to generate in a short distance, it can't be normal. Let me verify it for you and you'll have some ammunition to take to the dealer.

[D1dad]

I hope your customers and employer appreciate what they have.

[VStar650CL]

Well, it looks like it's "normal" for a '24, but I hope it doesn't mean we'll be seeing another rash of dead trannies sometime down the road. I can only imagine it's some kind of silly gas mileage game. I ran a brand new lot car 21 miles in light highway traffic, and this was the result:

[D1dad]

Wow! I take my scanguage when I fly out and track Nissan cvt temps. The 24 sv I picked up in Tampa ran 205-220 and I just shrugged it off and said I’d never buy an off rental Nissan. I just ran 23 miles in 80 degree weather and within 18 miles I was at 195 doing 70. I wonder what they did to keep these things upright and not go into safe mode? This scares me vstar.

[D1dad]

Did they change up the cvt fluid? So many questions. The trannys definitely feel better but at what cost!

[VStar650CL]

After texting our FSM about it, I may have a clue. It seems Nissan engineering discovered that some of the new Altima trannies weren't getting warm enough to boil out moisture and it was causing corrosion in non-immersed parts. He speculated that the higher temperatures might be because of that. I didn't get a chance to ask anything in depth, but I did remark that 200F couldn't be good for the fluid. His exact response was:

FSM: "I believe CVT deterioration represents temp vs time?"
Me: "Sure, but that isn't something the typical customer can check. I'm afraid we'll be seeing another rash of long-term dead trannies."
FSM: "If you love your customers, upsell."

I think that's pretty clear. Nissan expects dealerships to catch poor fluid condition during warranty and isn't willing to put it in the form of a recommendation for more frequent changes. Or concerned in the slightest about what happens afterward. That said, the FSM wasn't aware of any changes in NS3 or the beehive itself, same part numbers and plumbing. My suspicion (unverified) is that the extra heat is baked into the Torque Converter design.

My assumption would be that the corrosion problem is likely limited to places with dank winters like Cleveland or Buffalo, or anyplace along the northern coasts. So if you live in a place like that and want a cooler for your '24, make it a 180F bypass type. In any other locale, use a 160F or lower. And in any locale, change the fluid like a religion.

[D1dad]

Do you know at what temp fail safe mode comes in? I get the winter thing no doubt. I live on the Ohio Michigan border and our 2018 takes a few miles before the rpm’s come down (fake shift) when it’s single digits out. I guess trade this thing in at 59k or change fluid every 10k. I do that anyways, but don’t wanna be going on a trip and have the dreaded no gas pedal. The 24 rental I had was up there in miles for a brand new car and performed flawlessly in Florida heat, but I was shocked at running 220 on a 3 hr cross Florida trip.

[VStar650CL]

I think 10K is excessive, but 20K is probably advisable until the warranty is up and you can do what you please. The units themselves are very durable, as I mentioned earlier. I'm just concerned about Nissan relying on people to check something they can't check without a dealer visit, then having trannies blow up early from degraded fluid. I can't see how that isn't going to occur at those run temperatures. If that's the true state of affairs, then this may turn out every bit as foolish as the whole "lifetime fluid" exercise. Color me very worried.

[D1dad]

I’m going to change out the factory fill @5k just to make sure it’s not ever filled and then every spring…and maybe fall. Our altimas will see some miles, quick fast and in a hurry. I’ve managed to squirrel away around 40 qts of eneos, idemitsu and 12 qts of ns3 from Nissan. As much of a pita as it is to pull the belly pan then why not?
Plus I’ll be a test subject on the new “runs hot as hell” cvt. I just don’t get how my 21 runs at 176 and has not so much as a hiccup in the north @40k, yet a 24 shipped to Florida is ok running at borderline safe mode. Maybe the engineers at Nissan and jatco figured out that soggy fluid is the true cvt killer?
My 09 ran to 95k without a fluid change before it started whining and I never tracked a single degree. I didn’t know any better.

[VStar650CL]

People not knowing any better is exactly what has me worried. It isn't an old problem, the FSM said it's specific to the UK32 transmission (in-house name for the gen6 Altima unit) and specifically corrosion. I just hope this "solution" isn't robbing Peter to hit Paul with a brickbat.

[D1dad]

So the condensation issue is only applying to the new trans? When was this one introduced?