BRAKES!!! BIGGER=Better

Post by **GorillaClub** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

hey, trying to finish the suspension on my 91 240sx. I decided to keep the car 4 lug for the long run and now all I need is brakes searching high and low through the post all i find is the z32 upgrade, with money not being much of a problem what brake kits are some people running and how do you like them. I found a kit 12.2" all around all hardware and everything seem good to me when comparing it to brembos, rotora's, and fast brakes.

Post by **stillmatic** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

Actually, more mass = better.

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

With the Z brakes you can easily lock-up the front tires... so in all fairness unless you are doing stops from 150+ mph or repeated high speed stopping, like on a roadcourse, there is no reason to get larger brakes than the Z brakes other than to impress your friends.

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

stillmatic wrote:Actually, more mass = better.

More swept area = better

Post by **Exar-Kun** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

uhm more hp=better?

dude, if you can lock up your brakes, you have all the stopping power you need. If you are racing and experience brake fade/head spotting, consider upgrading the brakes, until then, dont waste your money, you wont gain any better braking.

in fact, someone tested the Z32 verus stock brakes, it actually took a longer distance to stop WITH the Z32 brakes from 60...I believe it was about the same from 100mph.

just a thought.-chet

Post by **Snarlynx** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

chet... was it an apples to apples comparo?

I mean, same pads, the "correct" (I know the definitive size is debated but still...) MC for the Z brakes, same tires et al.?

I'm not doubting the results just when you say "someone" it makes me think it was a rather informal test is all.

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

Even with the incorrect MC it's just going to allow for more pedal travel before lock-up... so the car should stop faster actually.

The problem is the tires, not the brakes... most people run on pretty crappy tires and skinny ones at that.

You have X amount of braking force and Y amount of tire traction.

Doubling X just gives you more force but Y remains constant.

When I was running my 215/45/16 Falken Azenis I could hardly lock up the front brakes in a non-abrupt pedal depression. However when I converted to 5-lug and got the cheaper Falken 512s (with the wheels) I had problems applying full brake force on entry.

This was just using Axxis Metal Masters on stock 4-lug brakes... the 5-lug conversion actually brought me back to OEM crap pads which helps to further my statement.

Post by **Exar-Kun** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

yep in 99% of cases, tire grip is going to limit the brakes ability to stop the car, not the diameter or clamping force of the brake system itself.-chet

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

stillmatic wrote:Actually, more mass = better.

So if I have uranium rotors I'm all good right?

I understand what your saying, just poking fun.

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

Exar-Kun wrote:in fact, someone tested the Z32 verus stock brakes, it actually took a longer distance to stop WITH the Z32 brakes from 60...I believe it was about the same from 100mph.

I recall it stopping a whole 2 ft. shorter with the Z32 brakes.

Either way it doesn't warrant a brake upgrade... it warrants a tire upgrade lol.

IB 335/25/19s all around

Post by **lessthanjakejohn** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

read teh new GRM article anyone?

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

Haven't gotten the new issue... worth it?

Post by **Twintip_yeti** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

Correct me if im wrong but one of the reasons why you would upgrade to the z32 brakes is because they wont fade as soon as the stockers?

im jw

Post by **Exar-Kun** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

its got better ability to dissipate heat, because of the larger rotor mass, thats the reason to upgrade, not because it "stops me faster"...

some people say its the same thing, but it is not.-chet

Post by **Snarlynx** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

Plus they look like look like a bajillion times better espesially cross drilled and sloted (lost mass be damned). Plus if you get skyline ones off of a clip it's JDM tyte. :pface

Post by **Exar-Kun** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

I never judged a car by its brakes....:p

but yes, a worthwile upgrade for those of us track junkies or really, really spirited drivers...hah.-chet

Post by **Snarlynx** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

I've seen stock brakes behind 19's on a 240 once. It wasn't pretty.

I know the primary reason is to dissipate heat and I was half-joking when I said it was JDM tyte, you've got to admit big brakes look good behind wheels.

Post by **MarkEmark** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

stillmatic wrote:Actually, more mass = better.

bigger brakes = more unsprung weight (and rotational at that).

As usual, I agree with chet. You don't need huge brakes for a light car. I seem to have plenty of braking with my brakes, and I just have upgraded cross drilled rotors + kvr carbon kevlar pads on all 4 corners; never experienced any kind of brake fade.

Plus, z32 brakes with my 15" Work 3-piece wheels are a non-option; they JUST clear my stock brakes (they actually make my stock brakes look really big-it's the illusion created from the thick lip and small diameter of the actual spokes).

Post by **Snarlynx** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

Can I see a pic of those wheels? I'm a fan of work wheels. espesially 3 piece with a (hopefully) polished lip.

And if they are black with a polished lip... all the better.

Post by **MarkEmark** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

The pic doesn't do justice to the wheels--they're reaaal shiny

I like them; they remind me of Ferrari F40 wheels. Dunlop sp sport 8000 225's in the rear, yokohoma avs es100 205's up front.

http://24.59.109.135/pichost/pic//120-2055_IMG.JPG

http://24.59.109.135/pichost/pic//120-2056_IMG.JPG

http://www.eniety.com/pichost/pic/120-2041_IMG.JPG

Also, why is your font always bold?!?

Post by **Exar-Kun** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

he's cool like that :p

nice wheels man, they do look a bit like F40 wheels(but much smaller..hehe)

how much do they weigh? any idea?-chet

Post by **MarkEmark** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

Chet--They weigh EXACTLY 14 pounds...not a hair over. So I'll quote 13.9

Not as light as I'd want, but they look awesome and are obviously extremely strong/stiff being three piece.

Yes, not as big as an F40. But we can pretend :ylsuper

Post by **Exar-Kun** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

now to just get a twin turbo 2.8 v-10 with 485 hp in my ca.r...

donations anyone??!?!

hehe, 14lbs isnt too bad at all. anythung under 1lb per 1" diameter is good.-chet

Post by **MarkEmark** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

Exar-Kun wrote:now to just get a twin turbo 2.8 v-10 with 485 hp in my ca.r...

donations anyone??!?!

hehe, 14lbs isnt too bad at all. anythung under 1lb per 1" diameter is good.-chet

Wasn't there someone on the Fresh Alloy forums who was going to swap a 308gt ferrari 3.0 v8 into a 240?!?

I gotta stop post-whoring. It's addictive

Post by **Snarlynx** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

Damn those wheels look old shcool. Why did you get 15's BTW?

As for the bold, it's a habit I started at IGN.com that has carried over to every other forum I visit.

Post by **Q45tech** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

Just remember a single stop from 60 mph won't heat the stock rotors up by more than 100-150F even in summer and the pads don't begin to lose friction [increased pedal effort] until 500-600F.

Post by **MarkEmark** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

They may look old school, but they sure as hell have more character than 95% of the wheels you see on imports today.

I got 15's to save weight, period. I had 17's with 235's on it and hated how bloody sluggish it made my car feel (accelerate, brake, steer, handle, etc). Wheels make a damn big difference when it comes to the overall feel of the car. Even with 9 psi, the 17" wheels were just too heavy for my liking.

Marc

Post by **Snarlynx** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

I like old school.

The 15's however... I like performance and give it the nod 9 times out of 10 but I'd rather just get 17 inch forged shoes as a comprimize.

Post by **MarkEmark** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

Yes, in a perfect world with no financial limitations I would have opted for 17" forged wheels, such as the ssr competitions or the 5zigen fn-01 r---but I would have payed a lot more for wheels had I done that.

Post by **240Stilo** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:55 pm

MarkEmark wrote:They may look old school, but they sure as hell have more character than 95% of the wheels you see on imports today.

I got 15's to save weight, period. I had 17's with 235's on it and hated how bloody sluggish it made my car feel (accelerate, brake, steer, handle, etc). Wheels make a damn big difference when it comes to the overall feel of the car. Even with 9 psi, the 17" wheels were just too heavy for my liking.

Marc

And then again...I have 235/45/17 in the rear and my car doesn't feel slow at all.

When it comes to brakes, a good bang for your buck would be to get some q45 rotors and calipers. After the core deposit they came out to $170 ($230 up front). These brakes can be used with the stock lines so the rotors and calipers are all you really need. I decided to go a step further with this upgrade and buy stainless steel brake lines all around.

Now for the performance...VERY good stuff. I use Raybestos ceramic brakes with it and it still stops very well. Very good control and feel to them also. They don't make the pedal mushy or stiff (e.g. upgrading to 300zx MC). I retained the stock feel and only notice the braking power is there when I really get on it. 300zx brakes are said to be a little more difficult to control a gradual stop for everyday driving.

BRAKES!!! BIGGER=Better

BRAKES!!! BIGGER=Better

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