Bought my first Nissan today.

[Nameless EJ6]

ITR's run 14.9's.

There's quite a few people who have actually ran 13's with a stock ITR. (with good tires) and good driving.. don't underestimate them.

Quote » I think you have a skewed view of what a sports car is. Old porsches are far more of a sports car than an ITR, yet the old porsches are much slower than an ITR. Doesn't matter, the car was designed with one purpose in mind. The ITR was MODIFIED with one purpose in mind, big difference. The base integra chassis/layout is not a sports car one, and since the ITR simply builds off of that base, it isn't a sports car either.[/quote]Ok, more of a sports "hatchback" then. It's FWD, that's probably the only reason it's not a true sports car. It was built for the track though.

Quote »As for FF vs FR for track races, it's no contest. FR cars have very little understeer compared to FF cars, simply because FF cars have far more weight in the front. If you start to add throttle during turns to the mix, then the FF car loses out even worse, as you're going to be understeering like a champion and not accelerating at all when you hit the gas through a turn in a FF car. [/quote]Depends on the car. With an LSD and a well ballance car you're not going to be understeering if you drive it right while not pushing it too hard. Like I said above, it's pointless to argue whether FR or FF is better. I've seen MANY FF cars overcome RWD cars on tracks. Alot of them are ITR's.

Quote »I've driven an ITR, they aren't that great, especially for the price. I could get a 300zxTT in good condition for 13 grand easily. Which would you rather have?[/quote]I'd rather have the ITR. It's lighter, more nimble and N/A. 300ZX's are NOT good cars for a track, they handle like *** and are WAY too heavy. More of a drag car than a track car.

ITR's don't depressiate in value as much as 300ZX's either.

[HashiriyaS14]

As a former Prelude owner, I will second the opinion that they are not sports cars. They do have an excellent powerplant though (at least my 99 did), and I still think they are gorgeous cars.

Anyone saying an ITR isn't a sports car obviously hasn't driven one. This is a vehicle that makes very few compromises to civility and is expressly designed to go point to point extremely quickly. Now, I think they're overpriced for what you get, so I wouldn't buy one (you could damn near get a used S2k for the price, infinitely better car) but they're still awesome.

Honda still makes two of my favorite sports cars of all time, the S2k and the NSX.

[Nameless EJ6]

By the way, my swap if you look closely is a JDM B18c pulled from a wrecked 2000 JDM ITR.

It accelerated like a MOTHER in turns with that LSD and 4.7 trans. I haven't found a RWD car yet that could be pushed that hard through turns without breaking traction in the rear. I've taken out MANY cars on corners with it.

I don't believe for one second that you can't accelerate through a turn with a good FF car. You obviously haven't driven hard with one.

[SILVER97LE]

240's are not sports cars? So Silvias are not sports cars? Like I said before, the only thing missing from US 240's is the engine. I know that is a huge part of the equation, but my point is that the car was built to be a sports car from the minute pencil hit paper in Japan. You can feel that when you drive one in stock form. You cannot say that about a Civic HX/LX/EX.

Prelude is not the only purpose built car from Honda like I implied before. I would say Civic SI, Integra GSR/Type R, NSX, and S2000 would also be on my list (I don't think I am forgetting anything). All of these cars were intentially built to be fun to drive and quick.

Insurance ratings on 240's have way more to do with the cost of replacement parts than the possible "sports car" designation.

Tuned Hondas can kick my car with ease, but so can a tuned kia. From a stock standpoint, 240's are great starting points or great cars out of the box.

[240SXer]

Well no ****, they don't run a 13.7 second quarter mile. Try 14.4-14.7. Yes they handle nicely, something a 240 just doesn't compete with. ITR's are remarkable cars.. if you've never driven one you won't know this.

They're also N/A.. try to race a turbo one and you will NOT keep up.

I've raced turbo Integras with LS Vtech and stuff, not much different. Do you even know what my car runs to make that claim? And BS about the 14.4-14.7, i've seen many of them race at the track and didnt come anywhere near 14.7, I don't care if it *can* do it. If nobody can race it to that level it does not matter much. ITRs are teh slo. ITRs are still FWD hondas no matter how much you want to act like it's some sort of race car.

[240SXer]

240's are not sports cars? So Silvias are not sports cars? Like I said before, the only thing missing from US 240's is the engine. I know that is a huge part of the equation, but my point is that the car was built to be a sports car from the minute pencil hit paper in Japan. You can feel that when you drive one in stock form. You cannot say that about a Civic HX/LX/EX.

Prelude is not the only purpose built car from Honda like I implied before. I would say Civic SI, Integra GSR/Type R, NSX, and S2000 would also be on my list (I don't think I am forgetting anything). All of these cars were intentially built to be fun to drive and quick.

Insurance ratings on 240's have way more to do with the cost of replacement parts than the possible "sports car" designation.

Tuned Hondas can kick my car with ease, but so can a tuned kia. From a stock standpoint, 240's are great starting points or great cars out of the box.

I have yet to see a FF car that can even come close to launching as hard as me on street tires. Don't make excuses, the FF design isnt as good and that's all there is to it. It might be better for certian things, but basically if you want a car that will go fast and handle good you do *not* want a FF car.

ITRs are NOT as fast as you guys want to act like they are. Just check these out:

1997 Acura Integra Type R [email protected] stockhttp://www.dragtimes.com/Acura....html

1997 Acura Integra Type R [email protected] stockhttp://www.dragtimes.com/Acura....html

2000 Acura Integra Type R [email protected] decent tireshttp://www.dragtimes.com/Acura....html

1999 Acura Integra Type R 14.800 100.000 cam gears, intake, exhaust, headers.http://www.dragtimes.com/Acura....html

I've raced them and seen them race, just becuse I haven't been inside one does not mean I don't know their performance. They're fast for being a stock integra but that's about it.

[Nameless EJ6]

I've raced turbo Integras with LS Vtech and stuff, not much different. Do you even know what my car runs to make that claim? And BS about the 14.4-14.7, i've seen many of them race at the track and didnt come anywhere near 14.7, I don't care if it *can* do it. If nobody can race it to that level it does not matter much. ITRs are teh slo. ITRs are still FWD hondas no matter how much you want to act like it's some sort of race car.

You sound like a child. I can tell by the way you type you have no experience whatsoever. It's "VTEC".. not "VTECH". And I'm not BS'ing you moron, if track times are so important to you, go talk to some people on Honda forums what an ITR can run with good tires. If you knew anything at all, you'd know ITR's weren't made for a drag strip anyways. So putting them on a scale of how fast they are at the drag strip is pointless.

I never said it was a race car either. Read more closely.

[Nameless EJ6]

I have yet to see a FF car that can even come close to launching as hard as me on street tires. Don't make excuses, the FF design isnt as good and that's all there is to it. It might be better for certian things, but basically if you want a car that will go fast and handle good you do *not* want a FF car.

ITRs are NOT as fast as you guys want to act like they are. Just check these out:

1997 Acura Integra Type R [email protected] stockhttp://www.dragtimes.com/Acura....html

1997 Acura Integra Type R [email protected] stockhttp://www.dragtimes.com/Acura....html

2000 Acura Integra Type R [email protected] decent tireshttp://www.dragtimes.com/Acura....html

1999 Acura Integra Type R 14.800 100.000 cam gears, intake, exhaust, headers.http://www.dragtimes.com/Acura....html

I've raced them and seen them race, just becuse I haven't been inside one does not mean I don't know their performance. They're fast for being a stock integra but that's about it.

You're hilarious.. all you people care about is launching and drag racing. I guess you're just a part of the majority.

I honestly don't care that you can outlaunch a FF car. I've seen MANY FF cars launch consistent 1.7's with good tires, it can be done in either type of car... it's nothing amazing, it only depends on the driver and how good they are at "dUmpIn thA clutcH yO"..

I'm not suprised you wasted your time looking for drag times so you could attempt to prove me wrong. MOST people can't hit 13's with an ITR.. your list really doesn't have any effect with me considering I've seen posts and timeslips of people who have hit high 13's in ITR's. You're wasting your time.

Anyways, it's great that you think FF cars can't be a competetive. You're obviously clueless and limit your knowledge to what YOU drive. , The old saying about RWD cars being true track/race/sports cars etc. is total crap these days.

And yes, if you've never ridden or driven in one then you DO NOT know their performance. Ask ANY ITR driver.

[Nameless EJ6]

LOL look at all of their 60 ft times.. none of them can launch either. =p

[240SXer]

LOL look at all of their 60 ft times.. none of them can launch either. =p

Part of the problem is it's hard to launch a no torque FWD car. I know nothing about racing? I'm stupid? What the **** is wrong with you? Who do you think you are? I have a ****ing website racingonthestreet.com. I can garuentee you've i've raced more and been in the racing sene a long longer than you.

Basically we've determined that it's not a sports car, can't drag race, will have a harder time on the track because it's FF, just what DOES It do all so well? I don't see anything. It's just a pre-riced honda. And drag racing is still racing no matter how much you want to think you're better. And if it were as easy as just dumping the clutch the slow *** ITR would be faster.

[240SXer]

You're hilarious.. all you people care about is launching and drag racing. I guess you're just a part of the majority.

I honestly don't care that you can outlaunch a FF car. I've seen MANY FF cars launch consistent 1.7's with good tires, it can be done in either type of car... it's nothing amazing, it only depends on the driver and how good they are at "dUmpIn thA clutcH yO"..

I'm not suprised you wasted your time looking for drag times so you could attempt to prove me wrong. MOST people can't hit 13's with an ITR.. your list really doesn't have any effect with me considering I've seen posts and timeslips of people who have hit high 13's in ITR's. You're wasting your time.

Anyways, it's great that you think FF cars can't be a competetive. You're obviously clueless and limit your knowledge to what YOU drive. , The old saying about RWD cars being true track/race/sports cars etc. is total crap these days.

And yes, if you've never ridden or driven in one then you DO NOT know their performance. Ask ANY ITR driver.

So if I race a ITR and smoke it it's pretty clear that my car is faster right? But for some reason when I get behind the wheel i'm just going to be amazed with the performance? What the hell are you talking about? That does not make any damn sence. Don't say that what "you" drive. I own 6 cars buddy. RWD is better, I don't care what you say. What REAL ****ing sports car is FWD? NONE. The most power FWD car I've EVER seen (stock) is a ****ing Cadilac, how pathetic is that? only 300hp. Just shut the **** up. I never said it's the worse thing in the world if it's FWD, I just said RWD is better, and it is. I've driven and own FWD cars and they suck balls. Torque steer, traction, everything about it sucks.

[Nameless EJ6]

Part of the problem is it's hard to launch a no torque FWD car. I know nothing about racing? I'm stupid? What the **** is wrong with you? Who do you think you are? I have a ****ing website racingonthestreet.com. I can garuentee you've i've raced more and been in the racing sene a long longer than you.

Basically we've determined that it's not a sports car, can't drag race, will have a harder time on the track because it's FF, just what DOES It do all so well? I don't see anything. It's just a pre-riced honda. And drag racing is still racing no matter how much you want to think you're better. And if it were as easy as just dumping the clutch the slow *** ITR would be faster.

Don't cry now, I didn't mean to hit your soft spot. You do NOT know me or anything about me, so don't sit on your *** and tell me your worthless guarantee that you have raced more and have been in the racing scene longer than me. You don't know ****, obviously. Look at yourself and what you've typed.. it's pathetic.

Looks like you have some ricer hostility too. I think that's influencing your opinion on the ITR and FWD.. it's obvious. You haven't owned one nor have you driven one, you just cry on the forums about how they suck. I'm just blown away by your experiences with them!

Anyone can drag race.. it's all timing, there is no real skill in it. You should lock yourself in a closet or something untill you can lose your opinionated attitude towards FWD cars you have NO EXPERIENCE with.

Your website's about street racing? Great.

[240SXer]

Don't cry now, I didn't mean to hit your soft spot. You do NOT know me or anything about me, so don't sit on your *** and tell me your worthless guarantee that you have raced more and have been in the racing scene longer than me. You don't know ****, obviously. Look at yourself and what you've typed.. it's pathetic.

Looks like you have some ricer hostility too. I think that's influencing your opinion on the ITR and FWD.. it's obvious. You haven't owned one nor have you driven one, you just cry on the forums about how they suck. I'm just blown away by your experiences with them!

Anyone can drag race.. it's all timing, there is no real skill in it. You should lock yourself in a closet or something untill you can lose your opinionated attitude towards FWD cars you have NO EXPERIENCE with.

Your website's about street racing? Great.

Okay, you're right. You're a lot better. Sorry for questioning your greatness. You appearently know more than me about everything. Sorry.. No more now. ITR are gods gift to the car industry.

[Nameless EJ6]

Now you're just being a moron.

I'm sorry you can't hold your grounds for a competetive conversation.

[xe0]

Don't cry now, I didn't mean to hit your soft spot. You do NOT know me or anything about me, so don't sit on your *** and tell me your worthless guarantee that you have raced more and have been in the racing scene longer than me. You don't know ****, obviously. Look at yourself and what you've typed.. it's pathetic.

Looks like you have some ricer hostility too. I think that's influencing your opinion on the ITR and FWD.. it's obvious. You haven't owned one nor have you driven one, you just cry on the forums about how they suck. I'm just blown away by your experiences with them!

Anyone can drag race.. it's all timing, there is no real skill in it. You should lock yourself in a closet or something untill you can lose your opinionated attitude towards FWD cars you have NO EXPERIENCE with.

Your website's about street racing? Great.

Hi,

Sorry to interrupt your argument but I do take issue with one of your statements. Drag racing takes no skill? Anyone can do it? Right. Maybe launching a 110ftlb tq honda takes no skill, try launching a 450ftlb tq car.

As far as fwd vs rwd, I thought this thread was about someone purchasing their new 240sx? Way to go off topic.

[Nameless EJ6]

Hi,

Sorry to interrupt your argument but I do take issue with one of your statements. Drag racing takes no skill? Anyone can do it? Right. Maybe launching a 110ftlb tq honda takes no skill, try launching a 450ftlb tq car.

As far as fwd vs rwd, I thought this thread was about someone purchasing their new 240sx? Way to go off topic.

I don't really care to make a thread about this, therefor I kept the conversation in here. Opening conversation like this in the main forum would be like disturbing a bee hive. Most car owners on this forum are extremely opinionated about FWD cars so I personally couldn't justify displaying valid argument to everyone, I'd be attacked by a bunch of children scurred that I'm dissing on their 240's for being RWD. I do own one btw and I love it. I have nothing against RWD, I actually prefer my car being pushed not pulled.

I've driven more than one vehicle with over 500 Ft Lbs torque. Yes it's not the easiest thing in the world to learn to launch with a huge turbo kicking in and breaking traction while being thrown into the seat.. but comparing driving that car on a track vs drag strip it seems it's much easier to be consistent on the strip. There's no one else around you and all you're basically doing is practicing fast shifting and launching. It's fun, but IMO not near as competetive as a track.

Anyways, I'm sorry the thread got hijacked. I'm done posting in here. I have nothing else to say.. I have respect for FWD and RWD.. so it's not really important to me to defend my argument any longer.

[240SXer]

Okay, you're right. You're a lot better. Sorry for questioning your greatness. You appearently know more than me about everything. Sorry.. No more now. ITR are gods gift to the car industry.

Sometimes you have to realize that there is no end to an argument, I have my opinion you have yours. There really is no truth in the matter, you're right in your points and i'm right in mine.

[BadMojo]

It's a shame this thread got a bit nasty there, but all I have to say is that the ITR has received nothing but respect in every publication I've ever read.

When a magazine like Grassroots Motorsports is speaking very favorably about the ITR...well, that says something. If you've ever read GRM, they're not about stop light racing...they're more about brake proportioning valves and cornerweighting.

For what it's worth, as I recall both the Mazdaspeed Protege and the Focus SVT posted better skid pad and slalom numbers than the 240SX. Now, I love my 240SX but those are two FWD cars that bested it in two key handling tests.

Anyway, I've got nothing but respect for the ITR and I do think it's silly that a FWD that's been set up properly can't handle *very* well.

[dfw240_EE]

A FF will understeer, and the poorer the setup the worse it is (like me getting seat time in my old 91 Civic DX, that got ugly fast). However I have seen some ED Civics at autocross that are very well setup and will not understeer much at all. Though they will still understeer if you don't drive them right.

Next Sunday is my first Solo2 event in a FR car. Wish me luck

[emperor_lunchbox]

i dont really see what the hostility is about. as car enthusiasts we should be a fan of horsepower regardless of the avenue, import or domestic, FWD or RWD....

also i think this forum should come up with a definiton of a sports car. Really. The 240, while i love mine, is not a sports car. Its more of a "sport'y' car". and the I suppose the same could be said as the ITR. point is both have potential. But that is just my .02$

[nismofly]

comparing driving that car on a track vs drag strip it seems it's much easier to be consistent on the strip

i can vouch for this with a car that has that much power it takes quite a bit of skill to put it down coming out of a turn...trust me a flipped a car at a racing school when i messed this up a wee bit