Book burning

[stebo0728]

Ok so whats the whole book burning thing about anyway? I mean come on, stop being a tool preacher and worry about your flock.

Heres a funny read about these folks.
http://www.alligator.org/opinion/column ... 06732.html

[stebo0728]

And heres another thing about this. Could it be that this guy is doing this to invite an act of terror against him? Just to flip the coin we talk about the mosque folks possibly trying to play the victim card in the future by putting this thing where they are. Could it be that these Terry Jones Dove Ministries folks are planning to play the victim card in the future by asking for an attack?

[IBCoupe]

"Das war ein Vorspiel nur, dort wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen."

[stebo0728]

"Das war ein Vorspiel nur, dort wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen."

Nice, are you saying muslims themselves are next with this guy?

[IBCoupe]

What do you mean? I'm just quoting some random German guy.

But really: trying to eradicate an idea by violence is futile, and, if the desire isn't sated or abandoned, it will lead to unfortunate consequences. Either this planned demonstration is a publicity stunt, or it's representative of a dangerous train of thought that we can only hope remains marginalized.

[stebo0728]

What do you mean? I'm just quoting some random German guy.

Every dictator has to start somewhere ...

[IBCoupe]

Oh, I don't think it's a problem limited to dictatorships.

[mattblancarte]

"Das war ein Vorspiel nur, dort wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen."

Thankfully, modern law enforcement makes it pretty damn difficult to escalate to burning people en masse.

trying to eradicate an idea by violence is futile...

Agreed. Let them burn their books and wallow in the depths of hypocrisy. True Christians are tolerant because they know that judging men is reserved for their God. WWJD?

[IBCoupe]

WWJD

Get killed by Italians?

[stebo0728]

WWJD

Get killed by Italians?

Actual a misunderstanding. Jesus was killed ACTUALLY by Romans, but they were enacting a sentence that was not warranted by the Romans, but the outcry for it by the Jewish people was so large that the Romans caved.

[mattblancarte]

Get killed by Italians?

[IBCoupe]

Actually, I've always heard from scholars and my high school and college courses on the region and time period that the Romans looked to the Jews to spare Jesus' life, and they declined - the default Roman setting at the time being: "When it doubt, crucify and stab the sucker! 'Specially if he's being treasonous." I was trying to come up with a way to rhyme it, but gave up.

Might surprise you, but Jesus apparently wasn't particularly interested in ingratiating himself with anybody in the Levant. He pissed off the Romans, because he was claiming he was the Son of God and King of the Jews (which called into question the Caesar's power), he pissed off the Rabbinical Jews because he was claiming that he was the Jewish Messiah (which called into question the actual validity of the messianic prophecies he completely failed to fulfill), and he pissed off the Jewish Priests because he was stealing Jewish parishioners (and their tasty monies). About the only group of people he didn't rile up were the hippie Jews, busy hangin' around the Dead Sea, writin' on scrolls.

That said, there's no historical record to draw on as to how Jesus actually met his end. There are five different accounts (five different gospels), each trying to convert a different group. If I recall correctly, Matthew was the closest to Jesus' death (30 years later), and he blamed the Romans because he wanted to convert Jews. In contrast, John (60 years after Jesus' death) blamed the Jews because he was trying to convert Greeks. "You killed God" isn't really the best message when you're trying to sell something. And once Rome went Christian, it wasn't particularly prudent to be blaming them anymore.

And that's all I'm gonna say about that, because I have absolutely no interest in getting banned for perpetuating a forbidden religious discussion. The only reason I said what I did is because "The Jews killed Jesus" has been yelled at me once or twice before, and I don't really feel like putting up with it.

[stebo0728]

Actually, I've always heard from scholars and my high school and college courses on the region and time period that the Romans looked to the Jews to spare Jesus' life, and they declined - the default Roman setting at the time being: "When it doubt, crucify and stab the sucker! 'Specially if he's being treasonous." I was trying to come up with a way to rhyme it, but gave up.

Might surprise you, but Jesus apparently wasn't particularly interested in ingratiating himself with anybody in the Levant. He pissed off the Romans, because he was claiming he was the Son of God and King of the Jews (which called into question the Caesar's power), he pissed off the Rabbinical Jews because he was claiming that he was the Jewish Messiah (which called into question the actual validity of the messianic prophecies he completely failed to fulfill), and he pissed off the Jewish Priests because he was stealing Jewish parishioners (and their tasty monies). About the only group of people he didn't rile up were the hippie Jews, busy hangin' around the Dead Sea, writin' on scrolls.

That said, there's no historical record to draw on as to how Jesus actually met his end. There are five different accounts (five different gospels), each trying to convert a different group. If I recall correctly, Matthew was the closest to Jesus' death (30 years later), and he blamed the Romans because he wanted to convert Jews. In contrast, John (60 years after Jesus' death) blamed the Jews because he was trying to convert Greeks. "You killed God" isn't really the best message when you're trying to sell something. And once Rome went Christian, it wasn't particularly prudent to be blaming them anymore.

And that's all I'm gonna say about that, because I have absolutely no interest in getting banned for perpetuating a forbidden religious discussion. The only reason I said what I did is because "The Jews killed Jesus" has been yelled at me once or twice before, and I don't really feel like putting up with it.

I understand, and believe me I was not pointing any kind of finger. To be honest because of my faith and interpretation of the events, I place the blame on everyone. In my belief, NO ONE killed Jesus, because Jesus wasnt killed, he gave his life. But again, lets avoid the ban, and drop this where it is. I meant no insult by saying what I said, and I certainly wouldnt blame anyone directly today for something that happened millenia ago. I get pissed when us trailer trash white folk get blamed for slavery that died 3 or 4 generations ago. No one today in America ever owned anyone else today in America as a slave, what was done was done, lets move on, earn your own living and stop begging for my money cause 'ol great great great granpappy happened to be a functional part of the society he lived in.

[themadscientist]

Agreed. Let them burn their books and wallow in the depths of hypocrisy. True Christians are tolerant because they know that judging men is reserved for their God. WWJD?

And that is why when Pat Roberstson regurgitates BS I don't assume all Christians think that way. I know too many people who walk the talk.

[szh]

Agreed. Let them burn their books and wallow in the depths of hypocrisy. True Christians are tolerant because they know that judging men is reserved for their God. WWJD?

And that is why when Pat Roberstson regurgitates BS I don't assume all Christians think that way. I know too many people who walk the talk.

Indeed, yes.

I have a number of religious Christian friends who do good deeds for those in need ... without fuss or trumpeting their virtues. They are the ones who deserve the admiration and glory.

Z

[AZhitman]

Agreed. Let them burn their books and wallow in the depths of hypocrisy. True Christians are tolerant because they know that judging men is reserved for their God. WWJD?

If I understand my Muslim friends correctly, Allah (pbuh on y'all's behalf) himself would shake his head and feel pity for the guy.

If I'm correct, then that's EXACTLY what I'll be expecting of all American Muslims. Shake your head and ignore the lunatic. Christians have been persecuted for centuries, so don't expect to get off that easily.

[Cold_Zero]

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-20/worl ... s=PM:WORLD

I love the irony that it is un-American to burn a Koran, but it is ok for the US government to burn bibles. Not saying it is right in either case. Why didnt they just send them back? I guess the only country with REAL freedom of speech is Denmark.
Dont even get me started on burning the Flag.

[Cold_Zero]

That said, there's no historical record to draw on as to how Jesus actually met his end. There are five different accounts (five different gospels), each trying to convert a different group. If I recall correctly, Matthew was the closest to Jesus' death (30 years later), and he blamed the Romans because he wanted to convert Jews. In contrast, John (60 years after Jesus' death) blamed the Jews because he was trying to convert Greeks. "You killed God" isn't really the best message when you're trying to sell something. And once Rome went Christian, it wasn't particularly prudent to be blaming them anymore.

Oh man, I am going to ignore the rest of what you said. You might want to pick up a book on higher criticism. Of the synoptic gospels Matthew draws on the Gospel of Mark as a source. The Gospel of Mark is about 20 years after the death of Christ. But might I inquire as to the fifth Gospel you refer to in your comments?
Thanks

[dusred]

stop being a tool preacher and worry about your flock.

Agreed. I 100% support his right to free speech; however, when he dies I will personally go piss on his grave (natural consequences, as Greg would have it). This is unacceptable.

[IBCoupe]

I love the irony that it is un-American to burn a Koran, but it is ok for the US government to burn bibles.

That's not irony - there's a big difference between denouncing an idea by burning the books that contain it and preventing trouble with the some of the locals who kill proselytizers. We're in Afghanistan for a reason.

Why didnt they just send them back?

Oh, gosh, you're right! They should have just put them right back in the big blue mail box right there in Kabul. What were they thinking? The USPS is all over that.

But might I inquire as to the fifth Gospel you refer to in your comments?

You may certainly inquire, goofball, but it seems like a silly thing to do after I wrote: "And that's all I'm gonna say about that, because I have absolutely no interest in getting banned for perpetuating a forbidden religious discussion." I'm not interested in having an obscure, irrelevant religious debate. There are other websites for that, and this website explicitly does not like them.

[Cold_Zero]

I love the irony that it is un-American to burn a Koran, but it is ok for the US government to burn bibles.

That's not irony - there's a big difference between denouncing an idea by burning the books that contain it and preventing trouble with the some of the locals who kill proselytizers. We're in Afghanistan for a reason.

Yeah a big difference. Show no mercy to the intolerant in Florida, because he doesnt shoot at US troops and show mercy and compassion to the intolerant in Afghanistan, because they DO shoot at US troops. I know, I know you have to start somewhere to build a better relation with the locals, but it is so ironic in my mind. We dont really practice what we preach here in this country. But then again, we dont overreact to Danish Cartoons and non existent Koran flushing-s (gitmo) in this country or issue Fattwahs (sp) against British authors.

Why didnt they just send them back?

Oh, gosh, you're right! They should have just put them right back in the big blue mail box right there in Kabul. What were they thinking? The USPS is all over that.

We ship french fries and fuzzball tables to Afghanistan. There has to be a lot of empty aircraft, trucks and transport ships coming back from the region. What would have hurt to throw the pallet back on a truck and ship it back to the US. It was at Bagram Airforce Base, you know, the largest military base in the region. And just because I corrected your biblical criticism assertions doesnt mean you have to turn into a sarcastic a** on everything else.

But might I inquire as to the fifth Gospel you refer to in your comments?

You may certainly inquire, goofball, but it seems like a silly thing to do after I wrote: "And that's all I'm gonna say about that, because I have absolutely no interest in getting banned for perpetuating a forbidden religious discussion." I'm not interested in having an obscure, irrelevant religious debate. There are other websites for that, and this website explicitly does not like them.

Yet you make some crazy modernist assertions about the role of Jesus and think you skirt the religious debate guidelines because you dont relate any of it to his deity. But you wont even give just the name of the fifth Gospel you referenced? *shrug* Higher Criticism is a disciple that spans a lot of difference ancient works in academia. Discussing criticism is not (inside of itself) necessarily a religious discussion. I at least respect you trying to make the moderators jobs easy be not potentially throwing a discussion into a full blown religious discussion, by saying something and others seeing as a free license.

[IBCoupe]

Yeah a big difference. Show no mercy to the intolerant in Florida, because he doesnt shoot at US troops and show mercy and compassion to the intolerant in Afghanistan, because they DO shoot at US troops. I know, I know you have to start somewhere to build a better relation with the locals, but it is so ironic in my mind. We dont really practice what we preach here in this country. But then again, we dont overreact to Danish Cartoons and non existent Koran flushing-s (gitmo) in this country or issue Fattwahs (sp) against British authors.

So, just so we're clear: there's a difference between speech and a tactical military decision.

We ship french fries and fuzzball tables to Afghanistan. There has to be a lot of empty aircraft, trucks and transport ships coming back from the region. What would have hurt to throw the pallet back on a truck and ship it back to the US. It was at Bagram Airforce Base, you know, the largest military base in the region. And just because I corrected your biblical criticism assertions doesnt mean you have to turn into a sarcastic a** on everything else.

Alternatively, we could pile them up and light a match. Quicker and cheaper than the bible pile's weight in fuel. And just because I'm sarcastic after you tried to correct my assertions by pointing out a difference without distinction doesn't mean I'm sarcastic because you tried to correct my assertions by pointing out a difference without distinction. That's a post hoc fallacy.

Stuff IBCoupe told him he's not going to talk about.

Whose was the closest gospel chronologically to Jesus' death and how many gospels there are that try to "document" Jesus' death does not matter in the least when it comes to the substance of what I wrote. If you want to discuss it more, PM me, but I'm not going to do this on the boards. Chances are, though, I'm going to shoot you down there, too, because I don't really care about that stuff, and as I explained before, the only reason I said anything was to defuse the implication that the Jews were responsible for Jesus' death.

[Cold_Zero]

I wonder what the carbon footprint was for burning all those books? J/k
Let's see you don't care about that stuff yet you didn't mind throwing out your own commentary. But if it makes you feel any better in a round about way I agree with you on your very last statement. But probably not for the same reason as I don't feel the need absolve my ancestral group from any wrong doing.

[IBCoupe]

Yes. I don't care about that stuff, and I didn't have a problem throwing out my commentary, because I do care about other stuff. Get it yet? Stop being a douchebag.

I don't feel the need to defend my "race" either, dude. It's not about absolving collective guilt, it's about avoiding collective punishment.

[Cold_Zero]

You're funny.. now I see what T sees in you.. and it is easy to get you ginned up. Oh and since we are throwing out Latin phrases (I must apologize I studied Attic Greek and not Latin in my classics classes), I would like to add the phrase 'ad hominem.' Thank you for resorting to ad hominem attacks by implying that I was trying to be a douchebag. You avoid all my questions and then resort to personal attacks. Obviously, I got you all ginned up by my gall to question your supposed 'Authority.' I apologize.

On a side note, I was thinking about burning my copy of Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars in protest to the apparent favouritism of Latin being taught in classrooms today and not ancient Greek. I sure hope I piss someone off, might have to do that at this weekend's Greek Fest to garner solidarity.

[stebo0728]

Hey Im on board to burn some copies of "Origin of the Species" or "The Universe in a Nutshell"

[heliochrome85]

On a side note, I was thinking about burning my copy of Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars in protest to the apparent favouritism of Latin being taught in classrooms today and not ancient Greek. I sure hope I piss someone off, might have to do that at this weekend's Greek Fest to garner solidarity.

its creepy that you mention it, because i was just skimming my copy the other day trying to decide whether or not its worth keeping on my shelf.

[IBCoupe]

I would like to add the phrase 'ad hominem.' Thank you for resorting to ad hominem attacks by implying that I was trying to be a douchebag.

You fail logic forever. "Ad hominem" is when personal attacks are used as an argument, which is not what I did: I did not argue that your being a douchebag is what made you wrong. I didn't say you were a douchebag in lieu of an argument, I said you were a douchebag in conjunction with an argument. Further, I never once implied that you were trying to be a douchebag.

I avoided one of your questions for the reason stated; you've yet to PM me.

On a side note, I was thinking about burning my copy of Caesar's Commentaries on the Gallic Wars in protest to the apparent favouritism of Latin being taught in classrooms today and not ancient Greek. I sure hope I piss someone off, might have to do that at this weekend's Greek Fest to garner solidarity.

Okay.

[Cold_Zero]

Oh ok I wanted to cool like you and drop some Latin. So resorted to calling me a douche, ok



T, I love you man. Lol

[IBCoupe]

No worries.