Book burning

[heliochrome85]

Oh ok I wanted to cool like you and drop some Latin. So resorted to calling me a douche, ok



T, I love you man. Lol

ive also got a copy of caesar and the civil war, Syme's The Roman Revolution, and Marcus Aurelius' Meditations.

man, i need to clean out this shelf. good thing i have a kindle on the way, or else i may have to actually do something.

[Cold_Zero]

So no need to drive down to Carmel and party with a bunch of Greeks? I missed the Middle East Festival over at the Antiochian church, so I need to get my fest on this weekend.

Oh IBC, I had to say this because I thought it was funny.
Who, other then Mel Gibson in a drunken rage is trying to collectively punish the Jews for Jesus's death? Please take this tongue and cheek.

[heliochrome85]

So no need to drive down to Carmel and party with a bunch of Greeks? I missed the Middle East Festival over at the Antiochian church, so I need to get my fest on this weekend.

Oh IBC, I had to say this because I thought it was funny.
Who, other then Mel Gibson in a drunken rage is trying to collectively punish the Jews for Jesus's death? Please take this tongue and cheek.

you sir are in a constant state of hunger. we must be related

[IBCoupe]

I can't name a single person, Cold. Can't say that anyone does right now, and I can't say that no one does, either. Does that mean I can't or shouldn't argue against a questionable implication that's made that could support such a position?

I'm serious: if you want to discuss the religious stuff, send me a PM, and I might do it there. Otherwise, stop the passive aggressive posturing.

[Cold_Zero]

Come on man. It was intended as a joke. I thought it was freaking hilarious when I was getting out of the car, heading to lunch. Probably just my low blood sugar causing my good mood (rough day at work).

Passive Aggressive? Do you work here too, I thought that was a management style reserved for my unit!

[IBCoupe]

Sorry to hear about your day.

I can usually spot the humor in things, but picking up when people are trying to create humor is a different beast altogether. It's hard enough in person. I'll try to lighten up.

[Cold_Zero]

Kind of interesting view from the Father at St. George's in the Indy Star yesterday.
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a ... 0109080378

The Rev. Nabil Hanna, St. George Antiochian Christian Orthodox Church

» His reaction: "It's just stupid. First of all, it's not helpful, and it's disrespectful. Not that I want to ascribe September 11th as Christians versus Muslims. That would be falling into the false thinking of Osama bin Laden and those kinds of people that do present it as Islam versus Christianity, which it is not. I think what (Jones) is doing is certainly playing into that. And as a Christian, I'm thoroughly convinced that the Christian faith is the truth for everybody. At the same time, we respect other people. God gave us free will, and who am I to take that away from anybody?"

+ On what he would tell his congregation: "I would say our Lord taught us to turn the other cheek, to love our enemies. (Burning the Quran) would be stooping down to the methods of the terrorists."

[IBCoupe]

Breaking news: the preacher called it off... maybe?

So I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, the message the guy wanted to send was a crappy one. On the other hand, it's a darned shame if he was pressured into not exercising his rights as he wanted to. And back on the other hand, if he's holding the possibility of this thing over the heads of Muslims as a sort of threat (as could be inferred from his press conference announcing the cancellation of the burning) of what would happen if the Park-51 Community Center isn't relocated, then both of the sympathies I hold are used against him. Not only is it a crappy message he wants to send, but now he's the one who's trying to coerce people to give up their rights.

Here's what he said, though his claims that agreement to the relocation of the Park-51 project has been made already has yet to be confirmed:

"If they are willing to either cancel the mosque at the Ground Zero location, or if they are willing to move... away from that location, we would consider that a sign from God...
"The iman (sic) has agreed to move the mosque. We have agreed to cancel our event on Saturday and on Saturday I will be flying up there (top New York) to meet with him."

[heliochrome85]

Breaking news: the preacher called it off... maybe?

So I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, the message the guy wanted to send was a crappy one. On the other hand, it's a darned shame if he was pressured into not exercising his rights as he wanted to. And back on the other hand, if he's holding the possibility of this thing over the heads of Muslims as a sort of threat (as could be inferred from his press conference announcing the cancellation of the burning) of what would happen if the Park-51 Community Center isn't relocated, then both of the sympathies I hold are used against him. Not only is it a crappy message he wants to send, but now he's the one who's trying to coerce people to give up their rights.

Here's what he said, though his claims that agreement to the relocation of the Park-51 project has been made already has yet to be confirmed:

"If they are willing to either cancel the mosque at the Ground Zero location, or if they are willing to move... away from that location, we would consider that a sign from God...
"The iman (sic) has agreed to move the mosque. We have agreed to cancel our event on Saturday and on Saturday I will be flying up there (top New York) to meet with him."

Donald Trump tried to buy out the site and pay 25% premium for the site if they agreed to move it at least 5 blocks away from Ground Zero.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/201 ... _trum.html
AND
According to the Owner of the site, P51 has NO plans to move the mosque or cancel the plan, contradicting what the "pastor" said.

[IBCoupe]

Which makes me think that either the Pastor heard something wrong from the go-between, the go-between said something wrong, or the Pastor's trying to "negotiate" through public statements, rather than through a sit down (which I think is planned to happen very shortly).

[heliochrome85]

Which makes me think that either the Pastor heard something wrong from the go-between, the go-between said something wrong, or the Pastor's trying to "negotiate" through public statements, rather than through a sit down (which I think is planned to happen very shortly).

i think its the latter. this guys 15 minutes of fame are almost up.

[IBCoupe]

I'm willing to give him a very tenuous benefit of the doubt. It always seemed plain to me, however, that this thing was in response to the Park51 project at least indirectly (wouldn't have happened without the national hype that accompanied the project, if nothing else), though it was never explicitly stated until today.

[heliochrome85]

you are a better man than me if thats the case. I have little tolerance for that sort of open faced bigotry. not in this case, and not in the case of the morons who issue fatwas against farting, jews, and eveyrthing under the sun.

on a side note, L'shanah tovah

[IBCoupe]

Thank you, and you must be having a deliciously-unhungry evening tonight. Id mubarak!

I try to maintain a rule of presuming stupidity before malevolence.

[heliochrome85]

Thank you, and you must be having a deliciously-unhungry evening tonight. Id mubarak!

tonight is the last night. dinner in 45 min. tomorrow is for celebration and random acts of gun fire .

[IBCoupe]

Enjoy!

[audtatious]

It does not matter if he falls off the face of the earth at this point, Westboro has stated that they will be burning them if he doesn't.

[IBCoupe]

Well, that's not at all surprising.

I've heard critics of Petraeus saying that it doesn't matter if this guy burns a Koran - they'll find reasons to shoot at our troops. Don't know if that really addresses the "Let's not squirt lighter-fluid, okay?" argument that Petraeus was making.

[Cold_Zero]

Let's say this, if you find yourself in the same boat as Westboro Bapist cult, then you best evaluate if you need to jump ship! Because you are in bad company.

[audtatious]

Well, that's not at all surprising.

I've heard critics of Petraeus saying that it doesn't matter if this guy burns a Koran - they'll find reasons to shoot at our troops. Don't know if that really addresses the "Let's not squirt lighter-fluid, okay?" argument that Petraeus was making.

You know, if they do start escalating against our troops and start attacking us elsewhere because of these idiots then I say F-them. The hypocrisy they teach and act out against non-Muslims will make me want to burn one myself out of spite.

[AZhitman]

Thank you, and you must be having a deliciously-unhungry evening tonight. Id mubarak!

I try to maintain a rule of presuming stupidity before malevolence.

Great, great, great.

Maybe you two retards should hammer out the whole Gaza Strip issue while you're at it.

[AZhitman]

Well, that's not at all surprising.

I've heard critics of Petraeus saying that it doesn't matter if this guy burns a Koran - they'll find reasons to shoot at our troops. Don't know if that really addresses the "Let's not squirt lighter-fluid, okay?" argument that Petraeus was making.

You know, if they do start escalating against our troops and start attacking us elsewhere because of these idiots then I say F-them. The hypocrisy they teach and act out against non-Muslims will make me want to burn one myself out of spite.

Attention all Muslims, American Behavior 101 is now in session:

Welcome to our beautiful, flawed, amazing country. You are welcome here. You may speak as you please without fear, you may worship as you please withyout fear, you may dress as you please without fear. If you'll notice, there are those among us who don't like this country. We call those people "dissenters". Some call them "patriots". Regardless, you may observe them burning the US flag, criticizing the President, or drawing unflattering caricatures of major religious figures (yours, mine, and others).

That is their right. It has been bought and paid for thousand-fold with the BLOOD of patriots. It is NON-NEGOTIABLE.

Unfortunately, this means some of you may be offended. That's ALSO part of the American experience.

It is up to you whether you have the hair on your a$$ to deal with it, or if you're going to be a hypocrite and enjoy the fruits and beauties of this great nation without accepting its warts.

Feel free to leave at any time, but these freedoms won't change for you or anyone else.

May God (yours too) bless America.

[audtatious]

Pretty much. I don't judge the individual and I treat them all with respect (until they lose it). Everyone I know is this way. BUT there is only so far we will bend over to accommodate without expecting accommodation in return. When we don't get it we no longer accommodate. That's were we/I am now. Give me, give me, give me is what I hear and when you ask for their accommodation it's no no no.

Screw it.

[AZhitman]

I think your position echoes that of many.

Y'know, I think (and I can't speak for others) that if I came from a poverty-stricken country, maybe a dictatorship or one overrun by feuding religious factions, with no Constitution, no police protection less than 5 minutes away, and questionable infrastructure, I'm pretty sure I'd be starry-eyed and weeping at the bounty that is America - even with its "warts".

I think the constant running water, reliable electricity, paved roads, abundant food, generous compensation and guarantees provided by our judiciary would have me praising my chosen diety at all times.

I also think I could find a way to honor my religious faith without making an a$$ of myself. I have several Muslim friends who demonstrate this every day.

[audtatious]

Someone asked one of the Muslim leaders if we helped them build the Mosque in NY would that extension of good will ensure there would be no more attacks against the US. The leader would constantly ignore the question and go on to something else. We all know the real answer to that question.

[AZhitman]

He also refused to repudiate Hamas... repeatedly.

Again: fear or alliance? That's the question in the minds of middle America.

[IBCoupe]

He didn't refuse to repudiate Hamas. He was asked if he would classify Hamas as a terrorlst organization. He said that he maintains the same position as the United Nations - he condemns every act of terrorism as such, but he refuses to get into labeling, because that starts to require complicated rule-making.

For example, Hezbollah, in Lebanon, acts as a second government of sorts, providing general services to the public and being an all-around positive force in the communities there. They also launch rockets into the West Bank. It's a similar situation for Hamas in Gaza. Are they a terrorlst organization? The populaces of Lebanon and Gaza probably don't see it as simply as you'd like them to.

[audtatious]

So, at what point do they become terrorists? Lob rockets at civilians but it's not terror because you help your own?

[IBCoupe]

You missed the point. Lobbing rockets at civilian populations is terrorism, regardless of who's doing it. We can condemn those acts without getting into calling an organization a "terrorlst" organization. Labeling like that gets us into tricky situations where we say we want the Palestinians to elect their own government, but then refuse to recognize and deal with that government because they've elected a "terrorlst organization."

[audtatious]

What if the organization is the one who is supporting their members in lobbing those rockets? What if that very organization is calling for the extermination of all Jews?