bolt on turbo kits suck balls

[Projex240]

Okay, I've been reading for a while about the bolt on turbo kits that cost way too much money, and dont give more than 225-240 at the wheels. This is what i have to say about those:

DO NOT SPEND YOUR MONEY ON BOLT ON KITS!!

for the same price, I could put my own kit together that would yield more power, and be less laggy than say, nsports kit. A t04b?modified? Give a friggin break. Has anyone ever looked at a compressor map on one of those things. Unless youre at like 18 pounds and up...they are worthless. And almost all of us know that that is just about the threshold of our motors' ability to stave off detonation without racegas. T3/t04e's are much better matched-especially the 60 comp 50 trim/ 63 turbine stage 3's. sweet turbos-and the same price as "modified T04B-R's":rolleyes.All these kits START at 4000 bucks, and guess what, the injectors are maxed at 260 at the wheels, so there comes another 300 bucks-and more for the fuel rail youll need. and the ecu upgrage youll need--oh wait i forgot u get a fuel pressure riser:rolleyes . c'mon guys....I wont even start on those ****ty assed rev-hard cast manifold peices of crap.

For the same price I could have a whole kit with ecu and be pushing 300 to the wheels on 10 pounds and full driveability, with stock internals. every day. all day. period. i do it. dont argue.Oh and that brings me to another point. Whats with people talking about "pounds is is max boost on stock internals" "10 is just pushing your luck" Hello- your motor isnt going to blow up because you boost too much( granted 18-20 pounds is what i mean), its because you didnt tune it right- knocked, pinged and blew the **** up. this is what I mean by fuel pressure riser thats a bunch of crap- and what do they expect to do about timing? just dump feul in there until it doest detonate-ummmmm.....NO.

Guys, search out there- start at these places.

JGSTOOLS.com - great log style manifolds. You get to position these things the way you want them to be. up down sidways. kind of like sex without the payoff. 250.00 plus shipping.also, check these guys out for badassed intercoolers for 400 bucks if you not afraid of piping- all kas have to get over that anyway.sr20performance.com - t3/t04e on sale for 550 SHIPPED!stage 3 turbine wheels, a 57 or 60 trim comp wheel. think a .50 trim is available-just ask. t3/60-1 is only 650 shipped to. 60 lbs/min flow rate....holy ****.

the same place has 50 lb injectors for 270 for the set. unstable sells em for 300, jim wolf is what 100 a peice?!

unstable-hybrids.com - has fuel rails for 130. jim wolf is umm 240?you decide.

see where im going with this...im not done.

JWT ecu's---ok, lets face it. hes expensive, but hes the man at ecu tuning- downside....price and even wors...downtime. go through stillen. hell have it back to you in a week, and beat jwts prices.

exhausts and downpipes. 500 bucks shipped for an N1-

my ***- but a good muffler with a 3 inch inlet, and find a shop that can bend 3 inch GOOD, not crimp that all up. save your self 150-200 bucks.

hmmm what else.... o yeah! electronics-your on your own here.

all i can say is ebay ebay ebay.

the way i figure it i could save over 1000 bucks and be smokin a car with a bolt on kit.

let me know if you guys think so to0.

[MainEvent212]

dude, you are the man...

i've been waiting for someone to come out and say this...now hit me up on AOL IM as soon as u can, so we can talk about turbo stuff...i wanna build a turbo KA to make a consistant 300 WHP at 10-12 psi, and i think you're the guy to help me out

[TrunkMonkey]

the man?

you act as if he's stated some ground breaking new revelation.

-demetrius

[king_johnthegreat]

This is some kinda crap, idn't it? This is like the same post he just put about what BS ten psi is. First of all, they (Kits) do not all start at $4000. I can sell you a complete F-Max kit for $3400 dollars, and customize it for 300 whp for just about $200 more. The reason people do this is simple: they don't feel the need to, or do not have the smarts to, build their own kit when they can buy one that is all but turn-key. If you are the man, and really can do all this, why don't you? Take some time, make some kits, get some figures on performance and price, then put up or shut up. John

[Drift Machine]

Is there a point to this post.....I'm sorry but all of those things have been mentioned on this board awhile ago. Like Demetrius said, nothing new here.

[red240ne]

what a loser. are you expecting people to look up to you or something?

[encasemyheart]

dude, you are the man...

i've been waiting for someone to come out and say this...now hit me up on AOL IM as soon as u can, so we can talk about turbo stuff...i wanna build a turbo KA to make a consistant 300 WHP at 10-12 psi, and i think you're the guy to help me out

lol

Am I the only one sensing the sarcasm from Mainevent?

[trpower7]

I think so too......all this info has been hashed and rehashed by the rest of us about 250 times

[WDRacing]

Wow...Its amazing what happens when you actually browse the internet for parts...lmao. In case no one realizes this, YES you can find cool stuff online. I agree with some of the kits selling things that are not exactly what one would have chosen. But such is life when you buy a bolt on kit.

JGS Tools, I love them. But I can weld. Your average guy will burn a whole right through a manifold or simply the welds will be poor and lead to cracking. This assumes the average Joe has an ARC welder in his house.

I have no idea what your talking about with detoantion and boost levels, I'm not even gonna touch that one. I don't understand what the motor has to do with making you knock at 20 psi. More like fuel management and fuel type...

As far as smokin a car with a bolt on kit goes...lmao. You can't be serious. What kind of quote is that? Most bolt on kits are simply a few PSI away from making 300hp at the wheels.

WD

[aleph1]

I think hes attempting at making a good point, but he displays FAR too much-passion-in his post that he kind of get carried away.

I do agree however that no kit really has every part you would want, my dream kit (for a beginning turbo kit) would consist of:

JGS manifold or possibly a custom equal length manifoldthe T3/T04E discussed aboveTial 35mm wastegateChoice of a few BOVs (HKS, Greddy, Blitz, etc)SR20 Injectors (370cc)RRFPRWalbro fuel pumpFMIC roughly 22x10x2.75 (ideal for me at least)2.5" pipingCone air filter3" downpipeMAYBE some colder plugs

Remember this would be a basic kit, obviously Id prefer some sort of electronic/programmable fuel management, but I believe this setup will be fine for 7-8psi...possibly even more.

Off the top of my head the price for this setup is just under 2500. =) Have a nice day.

[cosmo]

correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a wastegateoverkill for 7-8 psi?

[aleph1]

*cough*.....how do you think it will stay at 7-8psi?

You can always turn it up as well, and I have complete faith in Tial.

[slipsr20]

:oface

[cosmo]

ahhh.....wait I knew that dammit, nevermind

[cosmo]

ok this i don't know

would getting this t3/t4 mounting and turbonetics dual port actuator take care of getting a wastgate and flange, or do I need something else?

http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/ >turbo accessories>internal and external wastegates and accessories> 3rd one down

[aleph1]

Honestly I have no idea if that will work, or how to mount it. I think its kinda a waste of money though, an external wastegate is far more desirable...especially if you are gonna add that actuator on, rather than the turbo coming like that.

[Drift Machine]

ok this i don't know

would getting this t3/t4 mounting and turbonetics dual port actuator take care of getting a wastgate and flange, or do I need something else?

http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/ >turbo accessories>internal and external wastegates and accessories> 3rd one down

If your trying to save money, then I would say probably. But in the words of corky bell "Do you see any race cars running internalwastegates?"

[cosmo]

but I'm only planning on running low boost(7-9 psi)

I thought an internal waastegate would be sufficient for that level of boost

edit-**** it. Tial 35mm here I come!!

[C-Kwik]

Projex240 - As much as I think you are correct that you can piece together a turbo kit for cheaper, I hardly constitute it as a reason not to but a prefabbed kit. Some are willing to go through the hassle of searching for parts and perhaps a good fabricator to make some of the piping and other custom parts. I was able to install my XS kit within one weekend. I doubt anyone who is building a turbo system will be able to do that.

As far as turbo choice, I'm sure you can pick and choose what size turbo you want. And as far as cost, certainly, you can buy a T04E for the same cost as a T04B. But businesses negotiate costs and such, so I would speculate companies like NSport and XS Engineering get a deal by buying a lot of T04B's at one time.

As far as JGS, it's far from being the BEST manifold. If built correctly, it should perform as well as the Fmax mani, but is far from the best type of manifold for a turbo car. As far as revhard, I agree that it's not the best mani out there, but most of the problems can be solved by prepping the mani correctly. Not ideal, but it should get the job done and done right, should perform just fine.

Lastly, it should be pointed out that there are very few shops that actually have mandrel benders. In fact the only one I've seen was at Hotshot, but they are not a muffler shop. They do manufacturing. Most muffler shops that can build a mandrel bent exhaust weld pieces of pre-bent mandrel bends.

I think you have a lot of great suggestions, but I doubt anyone here can really appreciate the attitude. You come off as buying a prefabbed kit is just plain wrong. Maybe it is for you. But there are plenty who will and have chosen to purchase a kit. It's their choice, not yours. And to all their own...

[slipsr20]

Sorry but a internal wastgate on a t3/t4 turbo!? :oface lolLets think mechanics here first! t3/t4+internal wastgate=slow, slow boost response+no top end power!:thinker TIAL's the way to go! slip

[fritts]

It would be great if somone came up with a partial kit for those without welders. Specifically the JGS manifold with a T3/T4 turbo running an external 35mm Tial and downpipe back to the fake cat or maybe to the hookup point from an SR downpipe. I can do all of the intake and lines, but will have to find somone to outsource my welding. Just a thought for some savy person to get in on the KA24 Turbo kit scene.

[Structure240sx]

Wow...Its amazing what happens when you actually browse the internet for parts...lmao. In case no one realizes this, YES you can find cool stuff online. I agree with some of the kits selling things that are not exactly what one would have chosen. But such is life when you buy a bolt on kit.

JGS Tools, I love them. But I can weld. Your average guy will burn a whole right through a manifold or simply the welds will be poor and lead to cracking. This assumes the average Joe has an ARC welder in his house.

I have no idea what your talking about with detoantion and boost levels, I'm not even gonna touch that one. I don't understand what the motor has to do with making you knock at 20 psi. More like fuel management and fuel type...

As far as smokin a car with a bolt on kit goes...lmao. You can't be serious. What kind of quote is that? Most bolt on kits are simply a few PSI away from making 300hp at the wheels.

WD

i've said it before and ill say it again WD is the man. hell by the time my nsport kit gets here i would be able to buy WD's kit

[AceInhole]

Quote »Okay, I've been reading for a while about the bolt on turbo kits that cost way too much money, and dont give more than 225-240 at the wheels.[/quote]hmm... i've seen FMax's Stage II kit do well over 300rwhp, in a couple cars.

Some people just weren't born with enough technical know-how or logic to build up a turbokit. Some people don't like to do "heavy" projects on their cars for fear of messing them up or lack of time. This is where kits are very useful, as are shops.

Saying "kits suck" is like saying "everyone and their mom should change their own oil instead of paying $20 to the local garage mechanic."

[scotty-2-forty]

Ever notice that he starts the thread but never gets involved in the hashing? Second post I know of. As for the kit vs. custom? Apples for some, oranges for others ... it's still fruit ... eat it and shut-up . Sheesh.

[aleph1]

haha, cleverly said.

Custom is for those with...more "discriminating" tastes =)

[Structure240sx]

yea i was planning a custom kit but was quoted to recieve my nsport kit in 3 weeks back in may, which would be a lot sooner than if i put a kit together. its been well over 3months now that i've been waiting for my kit. so i would have been better off putting some together for $1000 less. of course i was told by the retailer that this only happens to 1 out of 4 people lucky me. but since the intercooler has been on back order for a couple months there has to be alot more people waiting.

sorry for goin on just venting a little

[:: orion ::]

For the same price I could have a whole kit with ecu and be pushing 300 to the wheels on 10 pounds and full driveability, with stock internals. every day. all day. period. i do it. dont argue.

I'm gonna ignore the rest of the semi-correct (but not so well cited) info and touch on just this quoted part...

Yeah....OK. On what turbo???

That's 15rwhp per psi. Not likely from a KA...

IMO, 12.5 rwhp per psi is reasonable and safe, and not particularly hard to accomplish. But +13 is tough...I haven't ever seen it in fact.

Show me a 300rwhp KA with only 10psi and I'll show you a KA-T with a T88-34H, which DOES NOT = "full driveability".

Later - Brian

[I am Technoman]

I think a good three piece kit would be sweet but not many companies sell them. Something like turbo, manifold and intercooler would be cool and could be sold for like 1,300 or something around that. I would love to buy a kit like this because I could use my connections to get the rest of what I would need to run the kit.

[aleph1]

I dont think it would be that hard to get 300rwhp with only 10, youd have to do a lot of extra mods, such as porting and polishing, large intercooler, turboback 3" exhaust, ignition, etc. As well as excellent tuning, it all adds up....so I can believe it.

[:: orion ::]

That's low boost for big power...

I run a T3/T04E, 57 trim...which is a decent sized compressor - Paired with a .63 A/R exhaust side, it's can support +400rwhp easily.

So it's not a tiny turbo...

But at 8psi I expect 250-260rwhp MAXIMUM. I'd be floored if I made more...

So 2 more PSI for 40 more RWHP...it would take a MUCH bigger turbo...3" exhaust, port/polish etc... would help, but not add up that much IMO. Most I've EVER sen on a KA is ~13.5rwhp per psi - And that's in question IMO...

Granted, I haven't done anything to try and extract max power at low boost...but I still think it's optimistic at best.

Later - Brian