Birther Bill Passes Arizona Senate

[AZhitman]

As for feeling pressured to vote for the holiday, the people of Arizona still could have voted for your suggestion of a Civil Rights Day over an MLK Day.

Actually, they couldn't - Because it never made it onto the ballot.

But I concur otherwise. I suppose it IS a way for the free market to speak its mind. It just rubs me the wrong way, because what good are state votes if the rest of the nation can dictate a state's policies? I dislike broad-based "strong-arm tactics" that might not punish those who voted against it, and might only harm those who were in support.

Kinda like CA's moronic "boycotts" of AZ over immigration. Way to go, dumbasses - You just hosed a BUNCH of Hispanic hotel workers, restaurant employees, produce workers, porters, and other people you CLAIMED to be acing in defense of.

People just don't think.

[Cold_Zero]

Seems to me that the Obama Campaign did more to fuel the fire on this issue, than to put it out. Why didnt he just release his birth certificate from the State of Hawaii? I seem to remember there were a few lawsuits trying to gain access to the document and the Obama camp taking legal action to seal the document to make sure people didnt see it. I have no problem producing and showing mine from the Socialist Republic of Maryland.
While I dont doubt President Obama was born in Hawaii, why is this bill even an issue? What does it hurt? Or are just people afraid it may be construed as a slap in the face to President Obama? He is doing mighty well in that department all by himself. This past week I heard a tid bit on the news that 'Independents' believe in the whole 'Birther' conspiracy and that more Democrats than Republicans believe in the conspiracy.

[IBCoupe]

He did release the birth certificate in June of 2008. Might want to rethink that whole post of yours.

The reason lawsuits challenging it haven't been successful is because they lacked standing to bring suit. To have standing, you need to have suffered some actual injury. That injury would have to have been reasonably traceable to President Obama's actions, and there must be something the Court could do about it. The only people who really could have brought standing under the law would be some other serious candidate for President. And even then, I don't know what a Court's going to be able to do.

Which is the aim of this birther law. They're anticipating that someone will try to use the law to challenge the documents, and that a lawsuit will develop and some birther candidate on the Arizona ballot will be able to challenge the President in court. First problem I see is that Hawaii has already confirmed the veracity of the documents, and Article IV, Section I of the United States Constitution prevents Arizona from challenging it.

It's dumb all the way around. The only way you can still think this is an issue is if you are either ignorant of the pertinent facts, or if you want to think this is an issue, and in the case of the latter, I think Tariq's suspicions are getting warm.

[srellim234]

As for feeling pressured to vote for the holiday, the people of Arizona still could have voted for your suggestion of a Civil Rights Day over an MLK Day.

Actually, they couldn't - Because it never made it onto the ballot....

Actually, yes they could. That no one in AZ chose to go through the process of getting it on a ballot is not anyone's fault but the fine citizens and politicians of AZ. If it was proposed and not enough signatures were collected to get it on the ballot the people's will was done there too.

[R/T Hemi]

Oh my Gawd. I've got some good friends living in Arizona, so I know it's not the people, but given what I've seen from the Arizona legislature lately, I'm wondering what in the hell they are thinking. I realize it's a red state, but seriously, are they intent on becoming the laughing stock of America? I live in California, where the legislature is lost in a perpetual fog, but at least they don't pull this crap.

[heliochrome85]

proving to those who doubt that BO was born in the US is just as difficult as proving to those who believe in UFOs, that they don't exist. the facts never matter when you are armed with conviction.

[Cold_Zero]

He did release the birth certificate in June of 2008. Might want to rethink that whole post of yours.

The live document was never released, it was a just re-issue of the document. I should have qualified the statement, but it DOES add to the controversy. I have two birth certificates, the one issued to my parents when I was born and a re-issued version I needed to get my Government clearance.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8171314.stm
"Has the Certificate of Live Birth been released?
It has not. But Dr Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawaii Department of Health, has released a statement confirming that she has "seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen"."

There is a saying, "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." The truth is a powerful weapon. Maybe if Obama operated in full disclosure, there wouldnt be this conspiracy. Personally, I dont follow this conspiracy and trust he was born in the USA. It is not different than the True and Exact Copies we issue at work for Promissory Notes. Some true and exact copies of the Note are pretty sketchy and missing pieces. But in the Government's eyes it is the actual document.

[Cold_Zero]

I am sorry if my thoughts seemed a bit scattered my guy just lost the chinese formula 1 race. while people may not have legal standing,in the matter of public opinion and conspiracy theories blocking the release of the live document only fuels the fire. I use to work with a guy Mel, who believe that everything was a conspiracy theory so any evidence he had to prove is case was proof enough .really got the point where we thought he was paranoid because every aspect of life cannot be a conspiracy theory. I know that obama cannot waste all of his time trying to refute every single conspiracy theorist. in my opinion if you wanna solve the issue right now you just release to live document and it is settled. Obama could not then do anything humanly possible to resolve the issue.

[srellim234]

Exactly how do you "release" an original of the birth certificate? Put it on the back of a freight train and cart it around the country for all to see? And wait for some wing nut to damage it? Obviously, when you have to scan it to a computer or photocopy it for public dispersal, you have a COPY, not the original. You're also not going to let just anyone who feels like it and harbors ill will towards you have physical access to that piece of paper.

The original has been studied and verified. Factcheck.org has examined the original. The Hawaii registrar of vital statistics has examined the original. The Hawaii Director of Health has examined the original. From

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bi ... ficate.asp

"...those who have actually touched and examined the original certificate have verified and documented that it bears all the elements of a valid certificate of live birth..."

Also covered here:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008 ... e_usa.html

If verification of the original was good enough for the Clinton and McCain campaigns, why the hell isn't it good enough for the birther ignoramuses?

[Cold_Zero]

Yet he has the time, money and lawyers to travel all over the US to block the release of the original birth certificate. I don't have a problem producing either my reissued (which was released in Obama's case) or my original. Plus I am not going to send lawyers to block its release.*shrug* I have nothing to hide.

[srellim234]

Again, how do you release it? The original has been studied and verified by independent sources. Why do you need to personally see it? I assume that if you have done any research on the topic you have seen the photocopy or scanned copy of the original.

Do you want it framed and hung on the wall like a piece of artwork? Sent around the country? The case was closed after the document was independently verified. It's not a matter of hiding anything.

There is no reason to continue to make a case out of it unless you harbor ill will to the man and/or the country. It's been studied and by people a lot more qualified than you or me or nutcases like Donald Trump or Orly Taitz.

Let me guess: You don't believe we declared war after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Have you seen the original document with President Roosevelt's signature on it?

[Cold_Zero]

Actually to be honest, I do not subscribe to this theory. As I stated before, I trust that it is official and that he was born in Hawaii. I can understand (though I do not agree with) why people still question it, because of the effort to block the release of the live document.
Oh and dont get me started on Roosevelt. The guy pushed the line both with the Congress and with participating in the War effort before we officially declared war on the Axis powers. He may have single handedly provoked our involvement in WWII with both the Germans in the Battle for the Atlantic (example USS Reuben James) and in the Pacific (USS Panay), with cutting off raw materials to the Japanese. We (the US) certainly had our hands in the war while trying to claim neutrality. But this is a topic for another thread.

[IBCoupe]

So we're in a situation where crazy people have set themselves up to never ever be satisfied, no matter what the President does. The proper course of action for the rest of us is not to defend them. It's nit President Obama's fault that they refuse to be satisfied. He's done everything he possibly can.

No, the proper course of action is for us to ridicule the crazy people. Point and laugh, everybody, point and laugh.

[szh]

No, the proper course of action is for us to ridicule the crazy people. Point and laugh, everybody, point and laugh.

In the case of the birthers, yes, indeed.

Z

[stebo0728]

We live in the greatest nation on earth, lets come together now and help me change it

That bothered me so much more, on so many more levels, than anything to do with a birth certificate

[heliochrome85]

We live in the greatest nation on earth, lets come together now and help me change it

That bothered me so much more, on so many more levels, than anything to do with a birth certificate

why?

[stebo0728]

why?

I think he inadvertently allowed some of his anti-capitalist nature slip through with that quote. If America is so great, does it really not THAT MUCH changing? So much that you need to specifically indicate that it needs changing? No that was a telling quote, that slipped by most of America.

[heliochrome85]

why?

I think he inadvertently allowed some of his anti-capitalist nature slip through with that quote. If America is so great, does it really not THAT MUCH changing? So much that you need to specifically indicate that it needs changing? No that was a telling quote, that slipped by most of America.

im sure many more people thought america was great in 1964 prior to the civil rights act. doesnt mean we couldnt be better.

[IBCoupe]

That bothered me so much more, on so many more levels, than anything to do with a birth certificate

why?

Seconded.

Do you just oppose the implication that we're the coolest kids on the short bus?

Are you similarly outraged when every other politician in the course of American history has made exactly the same claim? Well, all except for Blando McTwiddlefingers, who said we're the greatest nation on Earth, and there's literally nothing he'd change once elected. That the guy you want for President?

[AZhitman]

So we're in a situation where crazy people have set themselves up to never ever be satisfied, no matter what the President does.

*ahem* "Blood for oil" *ahem*

[AZhitman]

im sure many more people thought america was great in 1964 prior to the civil rights act. doesnt mean we couldnt be better.

Win.

Doesn't absolve POTUS of a poorly-worded sound bite, but win nonetheless.

[R/T Hemi]

Yet he has the time, money and lawyers to travel all over the US to block the release of the original birth certificate. I don't have a problem producing either my reissued (which was released in Obama's case) or my original. Plus I am not going to send lawyers to block its release.*shrug* I have nothing to hide.

Here's the problem with that. In some state, having that original certificate might be enough to establish a new identity for someone. I'm pretty sure I'd not want mine released either.

[AZhitman]

I'm pretty sure we're not going to have anyone trying to assume the identity of the President of the United States.

[heliochrome85]

I'm pretty sure we're not going to have anyone trying to assume the identity of the President of the United States.

i know, its bad enough for the republicans that there is one obama. imagine the scene if they found out there were more!

[srellim234]

Actually to be honest, I do not subscribe to this theory. As I stated before, I trust that it is official and that he was born in Hawaii. I can understand (though I do not agree with) why people still question it, because of the effort to block the release of the live document.
Oh and dont get me started on Roosevelt. The guy pushed the line both with the Congress and with participating in the War effort before we officially declared war on the Axis powers. He may have single handedly provoked our involvement in WWII with both the Germans in the Battle for the Atlantic (example USS Reuben James) and in the Pacific (USS Panay), with cutting off raw materials to the Japanese. We (the US) certainly had our hands in the war while trying to claim neutrality. But this is a topic for another thread.

Paragraph one: Simply put, at this point in time, it is none of their d*mn business. They are trying in intrude into his private life in a way that is unwarranted and unnecessary. If you want to look at my wedding license, it is none of your d*mn business and I don't have to show it to you. If the IRS wants to see it as part of verifying my claim of "married" on my taxes then I will show it to them. If someone ELSE wants to challenge my claim of married after the IRS has verified the original document, tough. None of their business and they can go to h*ll. I'm not hiding anything. It's just none of their d*mn business.

Paragraph two: You sure know how to absolutely miss everything. I ask you the question, "Do they believe we declared war if they haven't seen the original document with the President's signature in ball point pen?" Your answer: "I don't like the actions of that president."

Your answer is totally unrelated to the question.

[AZhitman]

Simply put, at this point in time, it is none of their d*mn business. They are trying in intrude into his private life in a way that is unwarranted and unnecessary.

Just to play devil's advocate, it most certainly is our business.

<-- not a birther, don't personally give a damn.

[heliochrome85]

and the issue has come to a close...
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/po ... -4-18-2011

[Cold_Zero]

srellim234,
As the question if they believe we declared war if they haven't seen the original document with the President's signature in ball point pen... probably not. There is a lot of conjecture as to the legitimacy of the ratification of the 16th amendment. Geez, why are you so uptight about this?

[AZhitman]

and the issue has come to a close...
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/po ... -4-18-2011

Yep.

There's the "wackjob" everyone was whining about.

Notice she also vetoed the guns on campus bill?

..."feigned outrage" comes to mind...

[Cold_Zero]

Greg in the current age of supporters doing everything they can and believing/confessing what ever it takes to helps their guy, you know what the answer will be to your rhetorical question. These guys still buy the Obama persona because they haven't gone through what we did for the past 8 years. We woke up late in the 2nd administration and realized Bush wasn't a conservative, did nothing to help the cause and set this country back years. We learned it is not enough to just get 'our guy' in the oval office. We need good governance, not 'scoreboard'.
There is a popular song that ends with the lyrics, 'the revolution was a lie', well that is how I feel about politics these days.