Birth of a Beginner

[BoostWanted]

Hello I'm new here as you all can already tell by the title. I've been reading the FAQ's and other various things on here and other 240 forums. I'm not sure I have posted in the right area, however my post has all relevance to KA-T. So I hope everything is alright. Basically I'm a novice to cars/engines/tuning. I'm on the outside and I want in, I want to get my hands dirty and learn(not necessarily the hard way but i can take that route if need be). This thread will contain the evolution of my experience and build of a KA-T, if i get that far. What I would ask from all you NICO guys, is to guide me/correct me/harass me(when necessary), so that I don't make any mistakes, and will have the ability to learn and build A KA-T.

Soo here it goes.First question: I have 2k, more in the summer(job). I have a place to store/build my KA-T. As far as tools go, I have a few, my buddy has a a decent amount, and I will probably have to buy alot. Oh yeah and I have a DD so no worries there.Heres the problem: I want a 240 for the KA-T, SOHC for money reasons. I have seen a couple in my area, ones close but has 200k miles. I want to build the motor so I don't get greedy and overboost. I found a rebuild kit for the SOHC and i can afford it and the 240 I believe, and it should help with handling my desired goal of boost: 10psi and eventually 20(years later of course). Now do i go ahead and get the 200k 240? It runs and is in decent shape for a 1990. I like it as far as i can tell, and theres not much rust(1-2 spots not on the suspension). Heres where you NICO guys beat me in the face/erm advise me on what I should do about my situation.

Thanks,BoostWanted


Modified by BoostWanted at 8:15 PM 4/21/2008

[Florida240sx]

What price range are the cars? Why not DOHC? In the end they are both the same price really...My advice whichever engine your with. Find a spare motor. Turbo the one you have now. So when you screw up and blow it you know what went wrong so now ou put your good one in. Whether it's low mileage or built up.

[BoostWanted]

Thank you for your reply.

The 240sx's are around 1k the 200k is 700. Oh and BTW i'm only 17, so money is going to come slowly, especially since I can't work as much as I'd like to.

My impression of the 240s was that the SOHC definitely cheaper to boost to a certain extent. However I do like the other models better(sorry pignose guys) or at least cosmetically I do.

As far as the 2nd motor goes, I think thats a great Idea. But I want to keep the expenses low/affordable to begin with, Heck right now i would settle for 5psi if i didn't know i would want more boost later. Maybe thats where your 2nd motor idea fits in.

[silverkaturbo]

It seems to me that your going to have basically the same list of necessary parts to go turbo weather you have a sohc or dohc motor. So why not just start out with the better foundation motor and better looking body style from the beginning and not have something to regret later after all of your hard work. Hang on to your money and wait because there are deals out there its just a matter of finding them. Just my opinion.

[480sx]

SOHC is in no way cheaper to turbocharge. DOHC has so many advantages its really not wise to chose to start with SOHC.

Just dont get into a rush man, for anything. Wait a few months for a clean s13 to come around and scoop it up. Dont cheap out on your parts if you plan to make this a hobby. It will bite you in the *** in the end.

Research a lot, and if you have to ask us questions. Everything you need to know can be found on the net, and a lot of it on this forum. Make sure you'v read everything in the sticked threads first.

[BoostWanted]

thanks for your advice and information. Waiting is a hard solution to follow, but i will take your advice and watch the classifieds. I will also look into the advantages and disadvantages of SOHC versus DOHC(judging by your post DOHC>SOHC but I will still look). Thanks for your advice, it has really helped.

[WDRacing]

If I had 2K to drop on a 240 that would eventually be turbo'd I'd find the best 240 I could and not be as concerned with the power plant as I would the car in general. Make sure this car is going to be worth all the time and money you're about to put into it. This project is going to have a metric ton of hurdles and headaches along the road. And that's if it goes smoothly...lol.

Once you land a 240, either engine is fine btw, then you can re-evaluate your true goals and work towards a budget from there.

Both motors have good options for a beginner as far as boost is concerned. The DOHC version has more parts available, but they are both about the same as far as being able to produce power. If the SOHC motor is built well and you do some valvetrain work at some point you'll have quite the screamer. For the record, the SOHC has made more then 200whp in NA form where as the DOHC has not. Neither motor is going to be any easier then the other to work on either.

Welcome to Nico and KAT, becareful, boost is worse then Heroin my friend

WD

[480sx]

You sure do hate on the N/A DOHC Ka WD(not that im a fan, at all). Iv got an article from about 5-6 years ago with a 10000 rev limit, FCW crank 300 hp N/A Ka build. O/C this is kind of a bad comparison, because that engine has $1600(at least) in the crankshaft alone. All im really saying is that the N/A DOHC has the ability to put down good N/A power.

The only advantage that the SOHC has is the ability to run larger cam profiles. This is fine and good for a race engine, but for a street car you cant ever push the car to the limit with huge cams. It wouldnt be streetable. Im imagining that the N/A 200hp SOHC build had some crazy big cams. Other than that, they have the same crankshaft(engine geometry) and the same dislike of RPMs.

Pound for pound a DOHC will take in, and let out more air making it easier to make bigger numbers. Theres a reason you dont see many (if any?) new 4 banger SOHC's.

[WDRacing]

You sure do hate on the N/A DOHC Ka WD(not that im a fan, at all). Iv got an article from about 5-6 years ago with a 10000 rev limit, FCW crank 300 hp N/A Ka build. O/C this is kind of a bad comparison, because that engine has $1600(at least) in the crankshaft alone. All im really saying is that the N/A DOHC has the ability to put down good N/A power.

The only advantage that the SOHC has is the ability to run larger cam profiles. This is fine and good for a race engine, but for a street car you cant ever push the car to the limit with huge cams. It wouldnt be streetable. Im imagining that the N/A 200hp SOHC build had some crazy big cams. Other than that, they have the same crankshaft(engine geometry) and the same dislike of RPMs.

Pound for pound a DOHC will take in, and let out more air making it easier to make bigger numbers. Theres a reason you dont see many (if any?) new 4 banger SOHC's.

As usual, you missed the point man. I'm simply stating that the SOHC is a perfectly fine motor to boost. Never did I say one was better then the other. I'm simply defending the sohc version because it is OFTEN tossed aside and for the wrong reasons.

As for the reason there are more DOHC KAT's then SOHC KAT's...dude...how about the basic concept of math? The SOHC 240 was available for two years vs. the 8 years and 2 different body styles for the DOHC.

I'm not HATING on anything, I'm just not closed minded. Give it a try

[480sx]

This guy has no 240sx right now, so his options are wide open. So, my intentions were to guide him with his choice.

Its pretty much summed up in this equation..

DOHC>SOHC

Were not talking about throwing anything away, were trying to give this guy the best advice we can so he can make an educated choice. No ones going to go say, get a SOHC.

Also, i was actually talking about newer engines, for instance, what new honda motor(placed in a car) runs a 4 cyl SOHC? Basically saying that a SOHC is an engine from a time when automotive tech wasnt as advanced as we have it today.
Modified by 480sx at 2:53 PM 4/22/2008

[WDRacing]

If he could get a sweet 1990 SOHC 240 you'd suggest against it? I said open mind, meaning keep the options open. I said get the best 240 you can, not paying particular attention to the motor. So he'd end up with a great 240sx that ahppened to be turbocharged.

The DOHC motor is a better motor yes, it's more efficient in almost every way. But the difference isn't large enough to justify not considering the SOHC.

That is my opinion...

You gave yours and I gave mine...so please let it go. I don't appreciate the second guessing and forced justification over the simple givings of an opinion. The OP will form his own idea's and such after reading what EVERYONE has to say. Just because an opinion varies from your own does not mean the other is incorrect.

WD

[480sx]

OP - Hey if you find a SOHC at the right price in great shape jump on it.

I dont understand why you are dissuading an intelligent discussion between two people who know their ****. This is one of the ways people make a good choice, by listening to a few people go back and forth with the pros/cons, and their opinion. Its what makes a thread interesting, readable, and informative.

[WDRacing]

OP - Hey if you find a SOHC at the right price in great shape jump on it.

I dont understand why you are dissuading an intelligent discussion between two people who know their ****. This is one of the ways people make a good choice, by listening to a few people go back and forth with the pros/cons, and their opinion. Its what makes a thread interesting, readable, and informative.

We aren't debating anything I gave my opinion. The DOHC motor is better then the SOHC...my whole statement had to do with choosing the better 240, not the motor. So this debate you think we're having is moot, since I friggin agree that the DOHC motor is better? Again, I'm just saying to keep your mind open because you CAN turbocharge the SOHC and even swap it out later for a DE or V8 conversion.

But you still get the best 240 shell, especially since the SOHC versions are often cheaper. Allowing you to get one that perhaps already has a body kit and rims. Since he's expressed an interest in rebuilding the motor for boost, we can assume that a high mileage 89 or 90 isn't a concern so long as the car offers options that outweigh the fact that it's older and has a slightly less efficient motor to start off with.

Make sense?

[WDRacing]

This thread has been edited and will now get back on topic...lets keep this on track from here on out. If you need to reach me, [email protected] is the best way.

If you take issue with the way I run things, feel free to talk to an admin.

WD

[480sx]

Smart move

[WDRacing]

What exactly does that mean?

[BoostWanted]

So listening to the debate or non debate in here has been fun and I have learned some things. I wouldn't mind going SOHC or DOHC but I am HOPING for DOHC, But i might have to save a little more money since they seem to be a little more expensive from what I have seen. Thanks for both of your inputs. So my list in looking for this 240sx is: no rust on suspension or engine area.

No mechanical problems toward actually drivability., Dont mind body damage as long as its somewhat light(or should i be?, excluding front end damage and things that would jeopardize the handling)

91-up

Manual T.

Don't care about a/c or much other than the driver's side window. As well as not too much concern for the interior condition, excluding dash.

Anything else i should look for? Besides making sure the last guy didn't beat it TOO Hard..(compression test is something I will hopefully be doing so I can tell how the engine is).

Also I've looked on these forums, autotrader, and cars.com but haven't had much results. Craig'slist has alot but kinda sketchy no pics, worries me.

[480sx]

You want to find one with very little to no rust at all. Normally the pinch rails are the first things to rust, check along the bottom side of the car for signs of cancer. A little here isnt a big deal as long as it hasnt spread or eaten any big holes out of the metal.

A compression tester would be great if the owner would let you do that.

Dont get to stuck on buying one with a manual transmission. You can pick up a 240 in much better shape for between 500-1000 dollars cheaper than its manual counterpart. Swap it out for a MT when you can, its not that hard to do.

Best advice i could ever give to make sure the cars never been wrecked.. Check all the doorjamb lines(space between metal), all the trunk lines, hood and fender for weirdness. The car from the factory is not going to have any changes in the lines, it will all be strait and the same distance apart.

[BoostWanted]

thanks, and your reference to the doorjamb lines is like the rubber in between all the metal pieces and everything right? or is it something else? Thanks alot!

[240sxvaj]

I Think the DOHC have more parts in the market which means better options and they are newer motor.

[WDRacing]

Definitly more choices when going with the DOHC...

I'd save for a S14 that needs paint but is otherwise a straight car.

WD

[480sx]

thanks, and your reference to the doorjamb lines is like the rubber in between all the metal pieces and everything right? or is it something else? Thanks alot!

No, sorry i should have been more specific. I meant for instance, the space in between the top of the door and the roof of the car. If you follow that space with your eyes it should all be strait and the same distance apart. Sames true with the trunk. If the trunk itself doesnt line up flushly with the rear quarter panels, its most likely been in a bad front end wreck. Thats an extreme example, what your really looking for is indications of damage around the front fenders, hood, door and roof.

Check the cars body lines from all different angles as well.

The s14 has lots of advantages. Top on my mind is handling and looks(personal preference i suppose). The s14's got a suspension upgrade of sorts to make it a better handling car. However, if you get a OBD2 car it can be a royal PITA for those who have to go through emissions. Your also going to be hard pressed to find a s14 in your price range, they are still really popular cars.

You will never regret saving the extra cash up and getting one though, s14's are great DD's. The s13's cockpit never felt as user friendly to me, while the s14's is polished, trimmed and wraps around the driver comfortably.
Modified by 480sx at 1:17 PM 4/24/2008

[BoostWanted]

mmm, s14 you say. I like those, but I'll be hard pressed to find one for cheap, unless its got alot of damage, oh I found/saw/emailed a guy with a 90 240sx with a ka24de swapped and transmission. Runs and only bad thing is primer. Well the only negative thing I could see, that was also listed. its 2k and within 4 hours of me.

Another question: I would love to keep this car street legal, and am wondering if I could get to running 12s or high 11s with it being legal, and not too crazy.

[480sx]

Wow man if that 90 is in decent shape that would be a good car. Personally i love the pig nose, i get excited when i see them on the road heh. You really should be able to negotiate him down on account of the paint.

Just make sure you get him to take you on a nice long drive, to make sure the car is in good running/driving shape before you buy. Also, be sure that he knows he will have to take you for a drive. This might save you a 4 hour drive if he knows you will be expecting a ride in a car that doesnt drive well.

Man you really need to do some research though, spend some time reading everything in the stickies at the top of the page. You can hit high 12's with a street legal car without much fuss.

[BoostWanted]

Cool, i thought it was a good deal but I have my suspicions. It already has some upgrades as well, springs, shocks, i think tie rods, xennons i think, sleepy eye mod, exhaust, and rims.

I was thinking you could get into 12's but i wasn't sure if my experience and what little money I have can get me there within a couple years. Like if i spend a toatal of 5k on this car, I would hopefully get it in low to mid 11's street legal. Thats my goal, now to read the stickies some more.

[BoostWanted]

Update: Response for the SOHC 240, cheap, and won't care if i blow the engine, but i Dont want to blow any engines, i just want to boost without detonation.Also its 200k no mods, but rust will occur if not protected(its an 89). and 700 cash money

So I am waiting on another 240 in the classifieds thats a good deal IMO. 135,000 miles, lowered, tie rods, exhaust, intake, others. KA24DE! 2000 obo

What do you think?Thanks, Boost wanted

[KA24Carnage]

If it is anywhere within ( in your opinion ) a close distance.. I'd def. go and drive it(the DOHC), I'm glad I drove mine before I bought it. I never would've found out how much of a deal I got on mine..

GG old people trying to sell cars.

[BoostWanted]

update: craigslist has shown me this:

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/car/648104536.html

what do you guys think? I have my suspicions about rust, but i like the car in general and its somewhat close.

Also found this:Don't have any way to tow it but its close and I will find a way to tow if I get some great feedback from this

http://winstonsalem.craigslist....html
Modified by BoostWanted at 8:02 PM 5/1/2008

[BoostWanted]

I've been thinking and planning. I have decided that as fun as a 240 could be, in the long run I would/will want something newer/different. My intentions are to purchase a 240sx and learn about boost and other things first hand, and as cheap as deemed safe. The older models/SOHC setup will do just fine in this instance, I believe. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I just want to get my hands dirty and learn some things on a cheap car/project.

[480sx]

Sounds like a good plan man. Just remember its no cheaper to build a sohc than a dohc, like we'v said just look for the car in good shape and scoop it up.