bigger valves

[motoman399]

well i am doing a huge restoration to my car with budget in mind while cutting as little corners as possible. i am going to be porting and polishing my head myself (obviously going ka-t) and have been tossing around the idea of putting bigger valves in. its pretty expensive for me to have this done so i wont be using dual springs or ti retainers or better cams for now. just the valves and seals and machine work. i was thinking that when i get the moneys needed i can always buy the springs/retainers/cams later on and install them without ripping the engine apart.

would there be anything wrong with this idea?

[CTS13]

What are your power goals. Keep in mind intake valves are pretty good size. If you want some serious power, then oversize the exhaust ones for better flow but this is not really neccessary unless your hungry for 500+whp.

[motoman399]

its not like i have massive power goals. i just want the option to upgrade. also i would like to have a lot of horse power per psi of boost. i mean im not even getting forged internals just stock but re ringing and new bearings and balancing the rotating assy. can i buy just bigger exhaust valves? thought you had to buy them as a complete kit.

[WDRacing]

Would be cheaper/easier to do the cams no? Since we're talking about increasing the amount of air the valves let in/out per cycle I'd just swap cams. That's just me though...

[motoman399]

well what cams would you use? i already have the s13 cams. i was thinking when i get some money i would go with the kelford cams. to me they seem like the best ones. but if i use them i would want to get the dual springs and retainers, right?

[trackslut240]

according to their dealer website you dont need any other updates to your valve train, i.e. you can use your stock valve train

http://www.kelfordcams.com/applications.aspx

a little bit on the pricey side...600, maybe hunt for a used set...
found them for 504 from nicos advertiser , thmotorsports.

no harm is going with bigger valves and all but its something which can wait till you start going over 500hp. save that money and get the cams instead, thats what i would do. Or forge the whole bottom end and get it over with. the ka heads have been proven to be very efficient and well designed for higher outputs. now the pistons and especially the ring lands are the weakest link.

[motoman399]

ya i dont plan on going over 350 right now. but like i said i want to get there with minimal boost. i was kinda thinking that the bigger valves would net about the same power as the cams, probably for a similar price too. and then i wouldnt have to take the head off if i ever wanted to upgrade the rest of the head. i know i can make a ton of power with out even touching the engine. ya 600 is pricey, but they are probably worth it. i havent heard very great things about any of the other companies that offer cams to us. and also if i was going to run cams i would for sure do spings and retainers, and if i was going to do that i would want the stronger valves so i could rev higher. my main goal in life is to rev the KA to 8000 rpm boosted. lol

[CTS13]

Are you on a budget or do you make it rain at the clubs. Cuz we can tell you to blow money everywhere but if you cant afford it, why bother posting.

For your power goals, honestly you dont need much. I know your thinkin ahead and what if you do want serious power later but if thats gonna happen, you have to tear up the block for forged internals anyways and while thats happening, get bigger valves, otherwise forget it.

For my build im looking for 500whp or higher so i have cp pistons, eagle rods, fully balanced, arp studs everywhere, ported and polished head, high temp exhaust valves but stock size, ferrea dual springs and JWT 390 cams. thats going to run along with a 37r, meth injection, race gas and aem standalone.

[motoman399]

wow that sounds like quite the setup. i am on a budget, but im not trying to get it done RIGHT NOW. i have time. lots of it. so im can order parts as i go. im not afraid to spend money, just need the money to spend. i dont think im going to do a forged block right now, just because i want to try out the stock block with big power theory lol. i have nistune, dsm 450cc injectors, a t4 center mount, and i think im going to build my own intake manifold. i really like flow. and like said i want to try for like 10 psi at 350ish. see if its possible. and no i dont make it rain at the clubs lol we dont even have clubs here in my town.

[D-UNIT]

you should do the valves because that is the hardest most expensive thing you can do to the head. get it over with early cuz I can see you really want it and there is nothing bad is gonna happen only price.

[motoman399]

i actually found some for a good deal. a guy bought some and then figured out they arent in his budget. so i think im going to pick them up from him. they are .5mm bigger. and i called my machine shop and they said it was $4 a seat to do the work if i bring them the head unloaded and bring the valves down. so thats not that much to do the work even. im stoked.

[D-UNIT]

But that is not the hardest part. Its shimming the buckets. I heard it death especially with oversized valves. you should have it done by the pros (more$$$). you should get a MLS headgasket too and have the machine shop cut the head 4 a MLS HG.

[motoman399]

i have a cometic gasket and arp studs. what do you mean have the machine shop cut the head for the gasket? you mean o-ring it? cause i thought that o-ringing it was for copper gaskets?

[D-UNIT]

they have to make a much smoother surface so the mls gasket seals properly. if you don't tell them they will just do a regular cut for the stock hg and you could have bad coolant and compression leaks.

[WDRacing]

By cut I believe they mean plain. It just insures the surfaces are true and flat.

My .02, bigger valves and head work is a waste if your goals are under 500. You can run a set of cams and even use the stock springs as long as you don't go past say 7200 rpm you won't see any valve float. For the price of bigger valves you could have the best meth/alky/water injection system on the market, or even a custom one designed for a certain spot in your trunk.

Or nitrous with a progressive controller...literally tons of options depending on your goals.

If you're going to do huge cams, springs and valves then you better be fabbing a new intake manifold as well or you're just wasting money because you won't see all of the benefit.

[motoman399]

i knew what he meant by "cut" thanks, glad you got my back lol

i realize that the bigger valves arent needed for my boost level. ill tell you my plan.

i want to build an intake manifold with a q45 throttle body, port and polish the head, polish the combustion chambers and cc them, (already have) ported and polished exhaust manifold and turbine housing. what i expect out of this is fast spooling, and lost of power per psi. making it good for DD. thats the way i see it. i might be able to get a nitrous kit from a friend for a pretty good deal too. and have been pondering that idea. oh and i only want like 320ish power for now with the stock re-ringed block. i know im crazy, but i also want to be a little different.

i have been looking at custom intake manifolds for a little while and had an idea for one in my head. then i found a company that makes one similar to the one i was thinking about. it looks sweet.
http://realstreetperformance.com/store/ ... 0sx-5.html
for $500 bucks its actually a good deal. but i like to custom make everything i can. and have the welding/fab skill.

so lets hear some feedback if you want. im up for criticism too

[WDRacing]

I'm not a fan of short runner large plenum intakes. They eat low end torque which is the only benefit I like about the KA. If you want a peaky motor then you're on the right track...lol. What turbo are you using?

[motoman399]

ya i plan to leave a little more runner length. i am using a turbonetics on center top mount.

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/t4b_turbochargers
its that one. my old car came with a kit. i think it was called xs power. or something like that. had a weird intercooler setup, tons of piping, and that turbo and a RevHard manifold.

[WDRacing]

Yuck...

[motoman399]

lol everyone hates on that turbo, but i have gotten it to spool under 3k. i love it

why dont you?

[WDRacing]

"yuck" referred to your "last setup" not that particular turbo. Although I don't care for it because I'm a die-hard T3/TO4 supporter.

[motoman399]

haha ya there was so much piping. im trying to upload a pic, but its being gay..

[WDRacing]

You should use Picasa dude...best photo hosting server / software I've ever used.

http://picasa.google.com/#utm_campaign= ... erm=picasa

[motoman399]

^^ ill check that out. here is the pic of the messed up intercooler kit

[D-UNIT]

wow I can see why u r hard up on "spoolability" haha what is that , 20 ft long cold piping. holy shenikeys mario!!! BTW it is called "decking" -- deck (cut) the head , deck the block for the laymans like me.

this is the ultimate " i'm gonna port my own head" thread - where did the pics go???
ka24de-head-cut-open-for-porting-t162991.html#p1670880

too bad I found this after I hacked up mine........

[motoman399]

haha i have seen that thread before, when it had pics. check out this thread

http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39499 (sorry for the outside link) quality

and ya sooo much piping. a waste, but the kit was a bolt in kit. only modification was the oil pan. everything else was truly bolt on and go. came with and fmu also 2.75" down pipe turbonetics wastegate. some quality parts. and from what i read they put the turbo together with different parts so it was "designed" for the ka.

[WDRacing]

this is the ultimate " i'm gonna port my own head" thread - where did the pics go???
ka24de-head-cut-open-for-porting-t162991.html#p1670880

too bad I found this after I hacked up mine........

Sadly a ton of images didn't make the move when we switched servers.

[motoman399]

well i just hit the PAY NOW on paypal for a set of bigger valves. they are .5mm bigger. i hope they help spool and power a little....

[D-UNIT]

Make sure you port the head before you give it too the machine shop. Actually I had my machine shop disassemble and clean the head then I took it and ported it then they did their magic. if you port after machining and blahka the valve seats you are screwed. If you want some ideas on porting you can click on my engine pic in my sig. I'm no pro but I saved $200 so I'm happy. and my 6MP camera makes it look crappy but its is pretty nice and smooth in person and hitting 15psi at 2300 rpms makes it sweeter.

[motoman399]

cool man, ya i already was planning to port before the valves. im going to disassemble it myself. i hate paying for labor. ill check out your shiz now. thanks