Big Problems 1994 Q45 Dealer mess up? Dealer ripping me off? Help!

[pearlss1977]

Hi

My car was vibrating and making weird noises from the engine, had the car towed to the dealer. Dealer replaced all 8 injectors and o rings as well as a water pump.I have the car back maybe 10 days and it started giving me trouble. Almost everytime i started the car it took time b4 it turned over. I would add in the mornings it would sometimes turn over right away. Plus there was this smell after it turned over for about a minute.

I drove it back to the dealer and they said might be a fuel pump thats causing the extended crank. I had the fuel pump and controller replaced 15,000 miles prior. (when i got to the dealer we could not duplicate the extended crank)

I drove it home and basicly parked it. I started it 2-3 times. After 2 weeks i started it and it made a horrible noise from the engine- i turned it off right away.I had it towed in yesterday- dealer said that there is something bent in the engine a rod or lifter etc... thats causing thats noise.

THIS CAR HAS BEEN MANTAINED IMPECCABLY ! Only synthetic blend Moobil 1 every 3000 miles I changed the rack, Starter . Alternator, Tockico Blues, Hayden Trans Cooler....

MY QUESTION IS COULD WHEN THE DEALER REPLACED THE INJECTORS IF IT WASNT DONE PROPERLY , COULD RESULT IN A DAMAGED ENGINE?

My feeling is the O rings werent on right.

Please help me out with responses i paid 3200.00 for injectors water pump and new plugs now dealer says i need new engine

David

[96Qowner]

A guy has to be careful offering opinions on a car he's never seen, but, yeah, it could very well have been a bad o-ring.

Hard to start - smelled like fuel - eventually hydrolocked - boom, bent a rod.

But don't go off half-cocked. Get fully cocked before you confront the dealer and do it professionally. Do your homework.

[pearlss1977]

Hi

What kind of homework? What do u suggest?I barely scraped the 3200 to fix that car now i have a loaner car from the dealer as well as had them pay for towing, which they said they would cover if its related to what was fixed previously.

David

[lino]

I'm real sorry to hear about your car . It sounds like you have a very well maintained Q. There are some real knowledgeable and helpful guys here that I'm sure will share their thoughts and opinions. Just hang on and they should chime in soon.

[96Qowner]

Here are a few threads I found by searching for "hydrolocked":

zerothread?id=148249

zerothread?id=201884

zerothread?id=324247

zerothread?id=168844

zerothread?id=194199

zerothread?id=284853

Read as much as you can on the issue. It would be great to find a torn or twisted o-ring for evidence. You have to decide whether you want the same dealer to find this evidence, or some independent party. You can just go yell at the dealer, or you can start to set them up for a lawyer-assisted claim.

Gotta think this through.

[Q45tech]

The problem will be finding lawyers who understand the causality between replacing all 8 injectors and orings could easily cause a bend rod.

Boy you were luckily in that they charged you for all 8 and orings on the bill.

The rub will be the 100,000 mile legal life of an engine but the 12k,12 month warranty on their repairs can save you at least you can get all your money back and have a parts car.

Hopefully you have an attorney as a relative.

[qship96]

In your first post, you said your engine was making "weird noises" before they changed the injectors- what type of noises? maybe the problem was pre-existing before they started working on it and just got worse until it died?

[captainluigi]

You also state there was''this smell''. You did not say it was a fuel odor. What was the ""smell''?

Tech is spot on about the replacment of all 8 injecs. being a good part to this.

Over the yrs. I to have had my share of dealer or indie shop differences of opinion on work done. (Currently.)

Good luck. It's going to get ugly! It always does.

[pearlss1977]

Hi Qship

Car was fine till one day i started it and it made noise like a very fast knocking like a drum roll, and car was vibrating like it wasnt running on all cylinders. I turned it off right away and had it towed to the dealer. Dealer said i needed all new injectors and O rings as well as a water pump, dealer said everything looks good other then that- said the car was in good shape. After they were done i had the extended crank problem with the smell of fuel everytime i started it. Dealer was trying to get me to replace fuel pump a second time. Now they say i need a new engine. Dealer says that it could be a bent rod a bad lifter or some other internal engine damage.

I asked a few independent mechanics and told them exactly what happened and they all seem to think it is o ring or maybe something fell in when they pulled the injector -basicaly they think it was related to my initial repair.

I spoke to the service manager today and after a long time he started hinting that maybe they will pick up PART of the tab of a new engine. No figures were discussed but the fact that he started to go down that road after 1 phone call has me thinking that they know they screwed up.

David

[96Qowner]

Damned good start, pearlss

Play it carefully. The other shop opinions help - good move.

The best engine replacement is a good used JDM engine for under $1000, plus up to another $1000 properly prepped, plus install cost. Let them know you'll settle for that. A brand new one would be an outrageous cost.

[pearlss1977]

Hi Captain

Smell was a fuel smell and mixed in with a very rich burning smell, was like 2 diff smells same time.

David

[Q45denver]

I think I'd go with a rebuilt engine if I were you. Mainly becuase I don't think the dealer will warranty a used engine.

[Q451990]

It certainly sounds like a hydrolocked engine and bent rod to me. I would get an oil analysis to see what the fuel content is. If it's high you can definitely prove that there was a problem with the injectors or their installation. There is no other way for fuel to get in there other than the injectors - either stuck open (very unlikely) or damaged lower o-ring.

The hard start after a hot soak is also consistent with flooding...

I guess the fix depends on how badly the engine is damaged. I would push for them to fix it or either move forward with putting a new short block in at their expense... whatever it takes. It should be a warranty claim against their labor when installing the injectors.

Just remember it's not like you cut any corners... you had your car towed to the dealership and had new OEM parts installed by a factory trained Infiniti tech! It's time for them to step up to the plate now...

Good luck!

Heath

[pearlss1977]

Hi Heath

I was away this weekend. Last contact with dealer was a phone call on friday.Question Can i expect the dealer to change the oil to disprove the fuel in oil?

Would they also replace the faulty injector without me knowing so as to save a few dollars on a rebuilt engine.

Would they stoop so low?

David

[maxnix]

Question Can i expect the dealer to change the oil to disprove the fuel in oil?

No, take it to a 3rd party and have them send a sample for analysis. Don't touch it. If it comes back with high petrol content, et voilá!

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

may help you with labs.

[pearlss1977]

Hello Everyone First i would like to thatnk all of u for ur valubale input.

The service manager called me today, and told me that they will replace my engine at no charge with one with 61000 miles. My engine currently has 142000. He also will swap the brand new plugs and injectors.

I must say that the reason they changed their minds was because of THIS GREAT FORUM. I copied all of the info that i could find from here and sent it in an email. I guess after reading he realized , and fessed up.

Thank U David

[pearlss1977]

Hi

Whith the dealer swapping my engine is it expensive to replace seals and gaskets on the newer engine b4 it goes in?

I had done the valve cover gasket about a year ago, cost me about 1100.00 i do NOT want to do that again.

David

[jimbyjimb]

What I want to know is why they upsold you the water pump. Did they think it was a culprit for the noise you heard, was it leaking? What was their reasoning for swapping it out? That sounds shady. I know it's off-topic at this point, I'm just curious. And getting the valve-cover seals done with the engine out shouldn't be a big deal. A better answer would come from someone who also gets work done at a dealer, however. I'm new to the whole "Q" thing so take alot of what I ask or say with a grain of salt until backed up by one of these "Q-pro's."

[pearlss1977]

Hi Jimby

The car had a big puddle under it, b4 i had it towed. Noise and vibration was because of bad injectors to begin with.

After they replaced the injectors , is when i had extended crank and fuel smells.

The rest has been told.

David

[jimbyjimb]

Haha, okay. Just checking. One of the reasons I don't work for a dealer any more is that they would tell us to upsell even if it were a little wet at the pump seal. Complete BS. Looks like yours was justified.

[Victor]

Seems like you already have spent as much in repairs as what the car would be worth with nothing wrong with it. The Kelly blue book for a 94 Q45 in excellent condition is only $3250, and Kelly blue book prices are running higher than prices I see advertised here in southern California. But thats how old cars nickel and dime you. You fix one thing and then something else goes, and before you know it you put more into the car than what it is worth. Do they sell these used Japanese engines where you are like they do here in California? Might have been cheaper to put in a used engine than try to fix your own. Hope the dealer is honest enough to admit if they caused the problem and will make it right for you.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/...cycle r

[Q451990]

Whith the dealer swapping my engine is it expensive to replace seals and gaskets on the newer engine b4 it goes in?

I had done the valve cover gasket about a year ago, cost me about 1100.00 i do NOT want to do that again.

David

I assume they're going to swap over your new water pump too? I would have them replace the rocker cover gaskets and rear main seal while the engine is out of the car. Same with the under plenum hoses, knock sensors, and knock sensor harness (they'll have that off while they're swapping the injectors). Check the injector sub-harness and replace it if it's brittle... pretty common on the 90-93, but I'm not sure on the 94+. All of this is much easier while the engine is out of the car. I assume they're going to replace the o-rings on the injectors before they move them over .

Even if you have to pay for the parts, I would do it if they'll pick up the labor. Ask for whatever documentation you can get on the donor engine... is it a JDM import, or removed from a local junker?

Glad we could help!

Heath

[96Qowner]

Wonderful news, pearlss! Nicely handled.

One word of caution. Tell them to be SURE the used engine is for 94 or 95 - no others will work. Many of the JDM engines are 90-03 and the swap is a nightmare - harnesses don't match, different subassemblies - not worth the hassle.

Be reasonable about additional work you may want them to do on the replacement engine - be willing to pay for some of it. It's a lot easier to do before the engine goes into the car.

Again, nicely handled.

[lino]

Hello Everyone First i would like to thatnk all of u for ur valubale input.

The service manager called me today, and told me that they will replace my engine at no charge with one with 61000 miles. My engine currently has 142000. He also will swap the brand new plugs and injectors.

I must say that the reason they changed their minds was because of THIS GREAT FORUM. I copied all of the info that i could find from here and sent it in an email. I guess after reading he realized , and fessed up.

Thank U David

Well done! Congratulations on your victory . You gotta just love this forum and the awesome guys here.