Beware of JE pistons Part #271775

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
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As the title says ladies and germs, beware of the JE pistons with that specific part # as the oil squirter reliefs are not in the proper position and can and/or will result in broken oil squirters upon rotation of the crankshaft. I decided to rebuild my already freshly built motor that was in my sentra due to suspect varying cylinder compression under different temperatures. After careful consideration and years of dealing with this motor, I came to the conclusion that the bores spec'd-out and clearances were well within spec, some cylinders were slightly out of round.

At that point, the only thing left for me to do was have the block bored over for bigger pistons. I have wiseco pistons in one engine, I had just removed the CP pistons from this motor and had decided to go up two sizes and use my JE 84MM slugs. I got the block back, did some extra cleaning of it and started the necessary work to fit the pistons. Each piston ring had to be filed fitted to each cylinder and documented using the mathematical computations included in the kit (interesting). Once finished, cleaned and re-cleaned, I installed the pistons all at once without rotating the crankshaft (Just my way of doing things).

So I cleaned-up all the dripping engine lubricant and prepared the oil pan's mating surfaces for installation, installed the oil pan, bolted it down and went on my merry way. A couple of days later, I came back to install the head and when I looked on the ground, I saw that dreaded site I saw back in 1999 when my first set of wiseco pistons were installed backwards by the machinist and not verified by me, so when I installed the pistons into the block, little aluminum shafts fell out of the block. Oh No, broken oil squirters, so I had those welded and went on to do amazing things with that engine (Minus the wiseco slugs..lol).

The scenario was nearly the same this time, but the pistons were not put on backwards. The oil jet relief on the JE piston skirt is not in the range of the stock Nissan oil squirter and subsequently cost me two oil squirters. I decided I was not going to remove the pistons because I went through hell putting them in, so I removed the crank girdle, removed the oil squirters, cut off the locking tangs on the oil squirters, re-cleaned the oil squirters, put the back in the block and adjusted their angle to each individual piston.

So I went from CP 83MM pistons and K1 rods to JE 84MM pistons and Pauter rods (Expensive upgrade). I'll be placing the CP pistons and K1 rods in my virgin 83MM block and that will be an upgraded engine either for sale or whatever. So the moral of this story is, test fit components before final assembly. My experience sometimes causes complacency which will create delays. The advantage I have is, I have a plethora of everything and none of my CA powered cars are my daily, so I can afford to screw-up every now and then.

Again beware of the JE pistons and any aftermarket piston that you decide to use in your application. It may just very well cost you more than you've already spent. It sucked even for me to have to rip the oil pan back off and scrounge of two more oil squirters. Problem solved and engine has been reassembled ;).

P.S. I will add this to the sticky section in about a week or so.


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Did you contact JE about it so they can correct their piston info files?

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perhaps in the future you will rotate the crankshaft after installing the pistons and rods? ;)
I'm glad I did this to BioSehnsucht's engine... it turns out the set of clevite 77 rod bearings he got (off someone) were undersized and we didn't notice when we installed them... so needless to say, the engine didn't want to really turn over.... we're both glad that we tried to turn it over by hand while everything was still apart because he was able to quickly get a set of rod bearings for it from the parts store the next day

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Izento
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Very good info here. I'll stick with going for Supertechs like my original plan.

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How'd the K1 rods treat you? I never put my motor together and those are the rods that I grabbed for it.

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themadscientist wrote:How'd the K1 rods treat you? I never put my motor together and those are the rods that I grabbed for it.
I have no complaints about the K1 rods. I put about 21psi through this motor during it's run with the CP/K1 combination and the K1 units seems formidable. I will still be using the K1/CP combo, but in an 83mm block. So the verdict, the K1 rods are competent enough to stand trial :cool:

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If I can find a nice little pickup truck to drop it in, I want to put that motor together.

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Izento
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So, before I skip out on rods, how much whp could I run safely/ boost before the stockers start reaching their capacity? I know I will certainly get the arp bolts, but I want like 350 whp eventually.

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themadscientist
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Depends on how you make that power. The rods don't fail from boost pressure. They fail from bolt stretch. The short beefy rods are let down by the smallish rod bolts that can't stand the ridiculous revs people seem to think the CA can do; it can't.

tommey
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That is one of the reasons why i wonder what makes people use Pauter rods in the CA.. :poke:

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tommey wrote:That is one of the reasons why i wonder what makes people use Pauter rods in the CA.. :poke:
You're right! Most that own CA18s do not need such an expensive rod to achieve the desired results. I have a 536whp CA18DET powered car with stock rods and .020 over stock pistons (Nothing fancy). Of course the head has some mild porting and also uses JUN cams and heavy duty valve springs (again, nothing fancy). I threw the Pauter rods in the motor because I had brand new extra parts sitting around to include the JE pistons which appear to be a custom order, so after over-boring to 84mm, I said what the heck. And after 17 years of screwing with the CA series motor, I have enough extra parts to supply most on this forum.

The stock CA18DET rods are good enough for abusive driving and considerable power. BUT, if your car is poorly tuned, not even pauter, K1 crower, CP, Wiseco, JE or Supertechs will survive for very long.

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That was not my point :)
I am not trying to be rude but my point was that if you are spending that much on rods (wich is rarely needed because of the stock and china rods are more often than not good enough), then there are in my opinion better alternatives.
I am not talking about strength, Pauter`s are strong and maybe stronger then Carillo`s but if you consider weight wich is a big factor, then they do not make much sense to me.

The weak points in most motors i see is the wrist pins, both in terms of material/thickness and also piston designs.
Again, normal "of-the -shelf" pistons are good enough for most projects and i am not trying to insult anyone.

Also excuse the clumsy grammar.

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If the wrist pins are weak i've never seen it, but it could be because the cap bolts fail first and you can check the wrist pin, it's back down the road a couple hundred feet; follow the oil trail. :eek:

If someone upgraded the bolts so the big end held together we might see wrist pin failures. I would want the lightests rotating assembly I could get and if Pauter was getting a call for me it wouldn't be for off the shelf chromoly rods, it would be for custom length titanium. ;)

I don't see that happening, though. No CA18 car anymore. Now when it comes time to power the DR30, the FJ20 might enjoy something like that.

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I have a 536whp CA18DET powered car with stock rods and .020 over stock pistons
is that oem 020 nissan or aftermarket piston ?

one ca18 owner here bent stock rods, but did a lot of drag launches/passes. A rarity for the CA
maybe where cylinder pressure "meets" load, you'll test the other ca rod limits? dunno
never seen any evidence of weak wrist pin either

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tommey is from down under IIRC and those guys beat the crp out of the CA downbthere. I have ARP.s on stock rods on this build, and plan to treat it as poorly as always.we'll see wha breaks first, lol.

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tommey wrote:That is one of the reasons why i wonder what makes people use Pauter rods in the CA.. :poke:
This response was pretty vague, so no way one could've completely picked-up on your point; especially from this post of yours
tommey wrote: That was not my point :)
I am not trying to be rude but my point was that if you are spending that much on rods (wich is rarely needed because of the stock and china rods are more often than not good enough), then there are in my opinion better alternatives.
I am not talking about strength, Pauter`s are strong and maybe stronger then Carillo`s but if you consider weight wich is a big factor, then they do not make much sense to me.

The weak points in most motors i see is the wrist pins, both in terms of material/thickness and also piston designs.
Again, normal "of-the -shelf" pistons are good enough for most projects and i am not trying to insult anyone.
So like yourself, I'm not trying to be rude at all. I personally can't agree with your hypothesis that the wrist pins are the weak points, especially for the CA18DET. Never seen one shatter, never saw a CA18 block get busted open because of a rod that got tired of being inside the dark and oil-filled crankcase, never saw a CA18 rod and wrist pin damaged (in that area) and I have a built and abused a lot of motors, including a whole gang of CA18s.

I have built motors from stock, to mild, to wild and use different variants of rods from crower to stock, from Pauter to crower, from Eagle to Manley and have yet to see this action you speak of. If you are familiar with breakage of wrist pins, then someone is doing something not so beneficial for the motor that is causing those issues. Just saying :poke:

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dash wrote:
I have a 536whp CA18DET powered car with stock rods and .020 over stock pistons
is that oem 020 nissan or aftermarket piston ?

one ca18 owner here bent stock rods, but did a lot of drag launches/passes. A rarity for the CA
maybe where cylinder pressure "meets" load, you'll test the other ca rod limits? dunno
never seen any evidence of weak wrist pin either
Those oem pistons are Nissan units, nothing fancy. Stock intake manifold, 1000cc injectors, JUN cams, HD valve springs, custom exhaust manifold, GT3582R, HKS 40mm wastegate, Greddy Type R BOV and 3 inch intercooler piping. Engine has perfect compression (180psi) per cylinder and the car drives perfectly off boost which is set at 18psi for daily driving if needed. The car has functioning A/C and P/S and this engine never gives me any problems, whatsoever. So 32psi of boost and no spun bearings or damaged wrist pins. And for the record, I have been testing the limits of a lot of CA motors (my own and customers') with various rod/piston combos and I have yet to find anyone that has come back to me due to piston/rod or lower end failures.

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sounds dam near like the perfect street 1.8L S13! Deserves some sorta buiuld thread or somethin... for reference

were they 020 DE or DET pistons? Why I ask.... is 180 a "normal" compression reading for cams ?

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dash wrote:sounds dam near like the perfect street 1.8L S13! Deserves some sorta buiuld thread or somethin... for reference

were they 020 DE or DET pistons? Why I ask.... is 180 a "normal" compression reading for cams ?
Believe me man, I can brag about this car more than all my others. It drives like it's N/A when off boost (Aggressive timing helps down low) and transitions to boost with beauty. These are flat top pistons that resemble the stockers. This engine came from japan with the .020 pistons, but I decided to do the rebuild to freshen it up to my liking. Remember, this was the engine that had the crappy ACL bearings that were supposed to be standard, but were binding upon start-up. It has the highest oil pressure (@ idle) of any of my boosted cars and is just a delight to drive.

As for the compression, there were two versions of the CA18DET. Some had the infamous 150psi and some had the mysterious 180ish psi. My S13 hatch also has the 180psi engine in it, but that motor is stock minus the SDS and the 1000cc injectors. Even my customers cars seem to like the JUN camshafts better. I have one right this moment that just dyno'd 630whp with high lift long duration JUN cams and hydraulic lifters. This car has been running with this set-up for quite some time and sounds remarkable. It was a sick experiment of mine that seemed to have panned-out pretty well.

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There could be several reasons for wristpin failure.
I have experienced a couple on the CA.
Don't get caught up in a big wrist pin debate, I just wanted to comment that the pauters are heavy.

This is a CA piston and rod, killed by knock.
I have also had one go of unknown reasons, with pauter rods so pin bushing should be of decent quality.
And another died from cracked block and hydrolock.
Image

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float_6969 wrote:tommey is from down under IIRC and those guys beat the crp out of the CA downbthere. I have ARP.s on stock rods on this build, and plan to treat it as poorly as always.we'll see wha breaks first, lol.
Norway actually!
Hope it works out for you this time, I am awaiting updates in your thread :-)

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These are flat top pistons that resemble the stockers. This engine came from japan with the .020 pistons, but I decided to do the rebuild to freshen it up
As for the compression, there were two versions of the CA18DET. Some had the infamous 150psi and some had the mysterious 180ish psi. My S13 hatch also has the 180psi engine in it, but that motor is stock minus the SDS and the 1000cc injectors.
hmmmm wierd.... that raises more questions
So some stock ca18 from japan, tested with either 150 or 180 compression using nissan oe cast pistons?
and the cylinder heads all the same 8 port with stock cams, all rwd, composite head gasket?
I wonder if they were 'rebuilt' at some point with another oe cast piston.... say like miata BP, or toyota gze, etc. ?
after Jun cams, compression still stayed the same 150 or 180?
Even my customers cars seem to like the JUN camshafts better
"better" than which.... HKS, Tomei, regrinds ?
Believe me man, I can brag about this car more than all my others. It drives like it's N/A when off boost
I'd be hella proud of any hi strung reliable ca18 build also. You certainly have stuck with these quirky little bastards, put in your hours.... and it shows :crazy:

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With the JUN cams (264* 9.3mm ex/int.), the compression stayed the same. With my HKS cams (264* 8.5mm intake and 272 8.5mm exhaust), the compression seem to be dancing around, but for now it appears that the block had some out-of-round cylinders which led to the over-boring of the block. We'll find out soon enough because the HKS camshafts will stay for now and I should be re-installing this engine some time today.

And yes, it has been confirmed that there are two different versions of the modern CA18DET in the fact that one pumps out 150psi per cylinder and the 180psi per cylinder. And I know this because I've touched more than enough standard CA18's coming from Japan to be distributed to would be CA owners. I have no idea what the difference is (HG, Pistons, Head, etc.), but I don't care either; as long as it functions.

I've had a Tomei (270* 8.8mm intake) camshaft snap on me for no reason, so I had regrinds done based off that profile and they had done pretty well. The Tomei broken camshaft and the good Tomei camshaft are hiding in my garage in a box somewhere. I may revisit this profile someday, but I am in no rush. The HKS camshafts have been good to me in the past, but I have had some compression issues with this same motor that I have been using for nearly 11 years. I'll get to the bottom of this today. The JUN units seem to be the drama-free units. I mean, to have a JUN 272* 10.5mm lift camshaft set in an engine running hydraulic lifters and doing it reliably to the tune of 630whp is nothing to sneeze at :naughty: .

Lastly, each engine uses multi layer head gaskets and are selected accordingly to specs of the block/pistons. ARP head bolts are also incorporated to secure these engine because they do see in excess of 35psi of boost. The 630whp motor uses crower rods, CP 83mm pistons and a heavily machined head (port/polish, clearancing). Hope this answers your curiosities :cool:

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themadscientist
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I have a set of Trust 66 degree cams. Any experience with those?

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Trust made cams for the CA? What is this witchery you speak of?!?!?

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Izento
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Pics or GTFO!!

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themadscientist
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Not really an earthshaking revelation.

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Hmm, I wonder what the 66 means?

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Some makers use a two digit degree figure. Multiply a number like that by four to get the three digit one. They are 264s.

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