best turbo for a mellow torque curve on a CA18det??? POLL

[jrsink]

So im rebuilding the ca, after a buyer on here flaked out on pickin it up.so im gonna give it another shot.my whole block is getting rebuilt atm with new bearings and getting compltely balanced. im contemplating ordering a lightweight flywheel.will be running on my megasquirt II v3 setup already installed and used to get 223 whp at 8 pounds of boost with a pulsar gtir t28, fmic, walboro, stock? 370cc injectors, and wideband.this dyno does not show torque just hp, but u get the idea. very spiking torque curve, I WANT A MELLOW TORQUE CURVER WITH PLENTY OF POWER!

i would like about 300whp, so i will be upgrading injectors but I am unsure what turbo will give me the most mellow torque curve for drifting it. : ) thanks guys, your input is greatly appreciated. sink [IMG][/IMG]

[themadscientist]

The spike you feel is likely the turbo coming on boost. A bigger turbo than the S14/GTiR turbo will take slower to spool and support your power goals but when it comes on it comes on. You could get something with a larger A/R to increase lag but that seems counter productive. Most people want as much time "under the curve" as possible. I like that kick in the *** when a turbo wakes up myself. Even my E that was substantially larger than the S14 turbo it replaced would hit hard.

[jrsink]

my friend is selling this :Turbonetics dual ball bearing T3/t04 50trim .48 A/R stage 2 w/polished compressor housing

i need to learn more about trims and a/rs though to figure out what i need, ive never worked with such a low torque motor b4. not sure whats best for 1.8. help me out guys

[jrsink]

The spike you feel is likely the turbo coming on boost. A bigger turbo than the S14/GTiR turbo will take slower to spool and support your power goals but when it comes on it comes on. You could get something with a larger A/R to increase lag but that seems counter productive. Most people want as much time "under the curve" as possible. I like that kick in the *** when a turbo wakes up myself. Even my E that was substantially larger than the S14 turbo it replaced would hit hard.

yeah thats true. martin had my car revving to 8200 but it was so impossible to keep a slide without spinning out. i didnt really feel like i had good torque except when i was between like 6 and 8 grand, taht hard to keep ahold of that torque band when spinning the tires for drifting, you know what i mean? i think the a/r on the pulsar was actually too big, so i wouldnt wanna go bigger, and i def don't want more lag. im going to be doing a vmount setup this time to decrease lag as well

[KEMP]

go big or go home, haha

i like my 5otrim with a .63 a/r spool is very quick for a 50trim, external gate helps too, i like it, but im going for power, its a ca, torque is kinda low... but its a ca, rev it out like its been designed for, 8k + all day

[mbmbmb23]

So im rebuilding the ca, after a buyer on here flaked out on pickin it up.so im gonna give it another shot.my whole block is getting rebuilt atm with new bearings and getting compltely balanced. im contemplating ordering a lightweight flywheel.will be running on my megasquirt II v3 setup already installed and used to get 223 whp at 8 pounds of boost with a pulsar gtir t28, fmic, walboro, stock? 370cc injectors, and wideband.

this dyno does not show torque just hp, but u get the idea. very spiking torque curve, I WANT A MELLOW TORQUE CURVER WITH PLENTY OF POWER!

i would like about 300whp, so i will be upgrading injectors but I am unsure what turbo will give me the most mellow torque curve for drifting it. : ) thanks guys, your input is greatly appreciated. sink

You've gotta be running 14-18 lbs of boost to really wake the GTIR turbo up.....but not with 370's obvously. I'm not suprised you werent impressed. I would upgrade the fuel first....bump up the boost.....then report back =P

If you are going for 300ish with better spool....I would try a GT28RS (disco potato). From the research I've done, the GT28RS is basically a GTIR turbo ...but full ball bearing not journal bearing and a T04E (S14/S15) compressor housing. If you'd be content with amazing spool and 250hp, I would try a GT2510 (ball bearing S13 SR turbo). Either way you'll wanna use at least 444/450's and considerably bumped up fuel pressure, or 550's (Evo 560's work too http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ories.)
Modified by mbmbmb23 at 10:09 PM 2/13/2009

[r34 gtr]

Don't you have a GTiR t28 on there already? That turbo would be fine for the job.

[jrsink]

Don't you have a GTiR t28 on there already? That turbo would be fine for the job.

i sold it lol. i think it was the big a/r that was making me not like it. it felt a lil laggy, and yea it blasted off when it hit 4-5k but, i dont want to BLAST OFF, i want consistent torque/mellow curve. im gonna get arp head steads and a new headgasket, now that ive recently read about cas going up t0 600 hp on stock internals, bc the rods are forged. thats f**kin awesome. hmm, so i need a turbo capable of 250-400 lol, and a mellow torque curve lol... im still researching. andone more thing, when we talk abouty a/rs, are we talking about turbine housing a/r or compressor a/r?? just to get it strait

[jrsink]

go big or go home, haha

i like my 5otrim with a .63 a/r spool is very quick for a 50trim, external gate helps too, i like it, but im going for power, its a ca, torque is kinda low... but its a ca, rev it out like its been designed for, 8k + all day

so in comparison between your tubro, a 50 trim with a .63 a/r,and the the one mentioned above (Turbonetics dual ball bearing T3/t04 50trim .48 A/R ),the turbonetics will have less lage bc of the smaller a/r correct? bigger a/r are better for more flow, but the result will be more lag tho? and probably a steeper torque curve in mid to high range power (bc of increased flow, like a pulsar t28 that i was unhappy with)??hope i dont sound like a newb, im not, just kinda with turbo numbers

[r34 gtr]

Get yourself a big 16g, like the evo 3. It will be perfect for your needs, and they are cheap as hell. You would need a new manifold though.

[themadscientist]

now that ive recently read about cas going up t0 600 hp on stock internals, bc the rods are forged. thats f**kin awesome.

Time out.

No way. The commonly known 600hp CAs can be counted on one hand and NONE of them are doing it with all stock internals. Yeah the rods are nice, bolts could be better but the forgings are stout. You need to throw some stupid boost at a CA and spin it rather fast to make numbers like that.

For what you are talking about doing, yes, OEM bits are definately good to go.

[The_Chosen_One]

GT28R, I've had both the GT28R and GTi-R are you're aware jrsink. If you want smooth and power the GT28R will suffice. The power it makes is linear unlike the GTi-R where it'll blast you.

One of the things I noticed between the 2 is when you're in the upper rpms the GTi-R would take like a second or two to hit full boost while the GT28R because of its ball bearing and linear curve practically followed your foot pedal.

If I didn't think my GT28R was blown you would of bought my car with it in on.

[ca18detgabby]

if you are looking for a curve like that.............

wouldnt uping the compression make sense?

if I really needed power that quick a little direct port setup would suit me........ but I happen to like the ability to drive out of boost on city streets......

I also wonder(probably get cracked on for saying it) but maybe running a SRT25 would make sense........ you seem to want the power ASAP, so running a turbo that is reasonably sized for a stock motor would make sense with all the extra mods you have. That +high compression I WOULD THINK........ would spool real quick.

[float_6969]

I voted for the S15 T28. It's a great turbo for the CA.

Use the stock manifold. The SSAC manifold makes it too laggy.

If you want it to spool up even faster, send the stock manifold and turbine housing off to get extrude-honed. that should net you at least another 500rpm of spool time.

The S15 T28 will get you to 300whp, at it's limit (which is about 18psi on a CA), but will take competent tuning.

If this isn't a street car, and you have race gas available, you can bump the compression up to about 10:1, and run some 100+ octane fuel. The turbo will spool almost instantly and will clear well over 300rwhp with good tuning and the above mods.

[jrsink]

if you are looking for a curve like that.............

wouldnt uping the compression make sense?

if I really needed power that quick a little direct port setup would suit me........ but I happen to like the ability to drive out of boost on city streets......

I also wonder(probably get cracked on for saying it) but maybe running a SRT25 would make sense........ you seem to want the power ASAP, so running a turbo that is reasonably sized for a stock motor would make sense with all the extra mods you have. That +high compression I WOULD THINK........ would spool real quick.

. im getting the t25 this week.i would like to max that out and add bigger injectors like 440s or 560s from an evo i found real cheap. only thing is ill need a hks adj actuator or ill need to ext waste gate my setup to max out the t25. ill let u know what works out for me, my motors alomst done bering rebuilt. cant wait to get it tuned again soon
Modified by jrsink at 6:51 PM 2/16/2009

[iliketocrash]

might as well. mill the head down to up the comp put some 550cc or 650cc injectors in it and throw a ton of e85 at it and have a nice day.

[r34 gtr]

Mmmmm E85.... I'd want some 750s for E85 though. You need to dump a fair bit more of that stuff in there.

[float_6969]

The S15 SR at the shop is completely stock except for a walbro and SDS. We're running E85 on it and maxing out the injectors at wastegate boost pressure (about 7-10psi). It uses 440's, iirc.

300rwhp will take a 750cc-ish sized injector as Tim said.

I can tell you from experience though that running E85 on a 10:1 compression motor w/ 18psi on an S15 SR T28 w/ little ignition retard under boost makes for a VERY torquey and fast spooling motor.

BUT, it's impossible to do on pump gas. Even at the lowest boost pressure I could get, I had to pull timing back to 5° total timing at 7psi and run the AFR's at about 10:1 (91 octane gasoline) to keep it from detonating, and it would still knock in the summers some.

Cliff Notes: High compression turbo motors are a blast, but don't expect to drive cross country with it.

[iliketocrash]

Mmmmm E85.... I'd want some 750s for E85 though. You need to dump a fair bit more of that stuff in there.

yeah. i realize it takes a lot more but i don't have any personal experience so i guess i didn't realize exactly how much more. but it's still a good route to go =)

[jrsink]

IS IT REAlly safe tho running a turbo on this motor with compression bumped up to like 10:1?

i had never really thought about that route. i will still be using my existing megasquirt to run the whole thing, although ive read alot about e85, im sticking with MS for now.i think im gonna go with the evo 560ccs for now, the price is great. havnt heard anything back from the shop rebuilding my motor yet, but id like to get some more info on upping compression.

[The_Chosen_One]

IS IT REAlly safe tho running a turbo on this motor with compression bumped up to like 10:1?

i had never really thought about that route. i will still be using my existing megasquirt to run the whole thing, although ive read alot about e85, im sticking with MS for now.i think im gonna go with the evo 560ccs for now, the price is great. havnt heard anything back from the shop rebuilding my motor yet, but id like to get some more info on upping compression.

Ryans setup is custom, no manufacture makes off the shelf high compression pistons for the CA, they have to make a one off.

I dont see why MS is discouraging you from using E85. MS is a complete standalone capable of using gasoline, alcohol. You can even get a flex fuel sensor and wire it to MS and it will automatically adjust your maps when it senses E85.

http://www.megamanual.com/flexfuel.htm

[ca18detgabby]

Ryans setup is custom, no manufacture makes off the shelf high compression pistons for the CA, they have to make a one off.

I dont see why MS is discouraging you from using E85. MS is a complete standalone capable of using gasoline, alcohol. You can even get a flex fuel sensor and wire it to MS and it will automatically adjust your maps when it senses E85.

http://www.megamanual.com/flexfuel.htm

arent the DE pistons high compression?

MS has nothing to do with running E85 or not........ Im not sure what it has to do with anything. If anything I would think MS would make it easier to run E85

[jrsink]

im learninr alot guys thanks

[The_Chosen_One]

arent the DE pistons high compression?

MS has nothing to do with running E85 or not........ Im not sure what it has to do with anything. If anything I would think MS would make it easier to run E85

Compression - 9.5:1(DE) 8.5:1(DET)

[ca18detgabby]

Compression - 9.5:1(DE) 8.5:1(DET)

so theoreticly he could go find a 50 dollar set of pistons from an old pulsar and run those instead........

at 9.5 I would think an awesome tune might even be able to get away with big injectors and pump......... but idk.

[The_Chosen_One]

so theoreticly he could go find a 50 dollar set of pistons from an old pulsar and run those instead........

at 9.5 I would think an awesome tune might even be able to get away with big injectors and pump......... but idk.

IIRC DE pistons aren't as strong and some other doodads. So yea you could use them but it would be worth it, probably not.

Just run more boost

[r34 gtr]

Thanks for the info about the flex fuel sensor Julian, I'm going to have to get one of those if they ever get E85 in Alabama.

[Logan76]

You sound like you want a v8, with a turbo car your hardly ever going to have that "instant boost" that would make your tourqe curve really linear, unless you want to have a really small turbo, I would say a T3 super 60 with a .48 a/r and an EWG would give you nice spool up and reach your power goals, in my opinion.

[The_Chosen_One]

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[ca18detgabby]

IIRC DE pistons aren't as strong and some other doodads. So yea you could use them but it would be worth it, probably not.

Just run more boost

I agree, but that wasnt what he was looking for.

I remember alot of the honda dudes run highish compression and low boost for speedy spooling and good low end power.