best engine for a small size?

Post by **ATpossible** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:01 am

basically i wanted to know what would be the best engine with some packaging constraints.

the most important dimension for me is its length in terms of longitude...ie. im planning on putting an engine in the back of the car. so i need to get the best engine that will fit from the back of the front seats to the rear diff or if its a transaxle setup that is short length as well.

so far i only have a few feet to work with so any input on strong good engines for it's size would be greatly appreciate by me. thanks in advance

Post by **WDRacing** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:33 am

What car are we working with? Or is it a truck? Without knowing the measurements or vehicle we're shooting in the dark. Sounds like a kicka$$ project though.

Is a V6 option ok as far as width goes? Using a V6 will be the best option for length.

Post by **ATpossible** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:17 pm

its a car. not sure which way i wanna do it but basically i wanna keep these measurements as fellows....

wheel base i want to be around 107/108 inchesbasically it comes out to be around 85in to max 90in from back of front wheel to front of back wheel. (depending on wheel size)

the door well be around 55 inches so basically i only have 30in to start with. if i put back firewall (behind the driver seat) closer forward from where the door starts i can get a couple more inches and do little things like that. i think i might be able to realistically get 40in to work with an engine/tranny before i hit rear diff.

i was thinking vg30dett but i dont know dimensions

i also know of a shop in vages that does ls1 with porsche transaxle but tranny alone is ~3000 up to 9000. which would prolly be best but i dont wanna pay that much for tranny!

right now i dont think i will have probs with width or height so like i said i just need a short length engine/tranny

let me know if u need anything better explain on any of that

thanks all for help and input

Post by **KATwo40** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:48 pm

Why so cryptic about the vehicle? Why not just say what the damned car is, instead of "it's a car?"

Post by **Blown240sx** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:15 pm

Its prolly a 510

Post by **WDRacing** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:09 pm

Well saying small then mentioning LS1 is ahh...conflicting with the topic. The VG30DETT is also one of the biggest (proportionaly) V6's available. I suppose new projects are cool, but I suggest a V8 Fiero or V6 MR2 maybe...

Post by **Blown240sx** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:55 pm

WDRacing wrote:Well saying small then mentioning LS1 is ahh...conflicting with the topic. The VG30DETT is also one of the biggest (proportionaly) V6's available. I suppose new projects are cool, but I suggest a V8 Fiero or V6 MR2 maybe...

MR2s are crap to work on and Fieros are just ugly lol

Post by **ATpossible** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:52 am

KATwo40 wrote:Why so cryptic about the vehicle? Why not just say what the damned car is, instead of "it's a car?"

because i haven't decided yet. right now that isn't my issue. its finding the right size engine. body in the rear is going to be totally custom. i guess i got lucky and know a friend of the family that does body work WELL.

WDRacing wrote:Well saying small then mentioning LS1 is ahh...conflicting with the topic. The VG30DETT is also one of the biggest (proportionaly) V6's available. I suppose new projects are cool, but I suggest a V8 Fiero or V6 MR2 maybe...

not completely...http://www.renegadehybrids.com/indexx.html the only reason why i mentioned that ls1 setup would only be possible-with my size constraints-with a "porsche transaxle"

remeber how i said i'm only worried about length right now. just look at one of their setups. hopefully that will explain how such a large engine can be considered in my situation.

know of another v6? or some 4 cyl. engine that would work good? i was thinkin that the subarbu engine seem short since they are hortizontally opposed and seem to be good engines.

any further help? engine help please?

Post by **WDRacing** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:50 am

Do you want a NA engine or a boosted engine? Keep in mind you'll need an IC etc if its boosted. Might effect your dimensions a little.

WD

Post by **redtop91** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:54 am

I'm sorry but this topic cannot be productive without at least a type of car you are looking at. Otherwise we could say any motor justifiably. Since we have no constraints I am going to go with 4G63.

Post by **WDRacing** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:57 am

If the LS1 will fit, use it. It's light and has been known to make 600whp with basic NA mods...

Post by **ATpossible** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:53 am

WDRacing wrote:Do you want a NA engine or a boosted engine? Keep in mind you'll need an IC etc if its boosted. Might effect your dimensions a little.

WD

correct. i really dont mind if its boosted or na but i would like to reach 300whp either way. however piping is an issue to consider i dont look a lot into it seeing that piping shouldnt be hard to accomdate the setup.

redtop91 wrote:I'm sorry but this topic cannot be productive without at least a type of car you are looking at. Otherwise we could say any motor justifiably. Since we have no constraints I am going to go with 4G63.

y the need for a car? have u ever seen a kit car? some are made of just bars welded together. what manufacturer is that? i dont mean to be rude, especially since im asking for help finding a good engine but honestly it won't have an effect. the engine is going in the BACK. rear end will be COMPLETELY CUSTOM. no not just any motor because like i said in the beginning it needs to fit within particular dimension. ill explain again which dimension is the important one.

oh and ya the 4g63 is a good engine but if your talking awd tranny then where the front drive wheels used to be powered would be useless. unless you r talking the fwd tranny then that is possible as well too but im hoping to get engine more in front of rear wheels then on top.

i need the measurement from the crank pulley to the end of the tranny to be as short as possible. if its transverse mounted engine then i need the width of the engine to be short. make sense now? if u need i can do a long paragraph explaining what exactly i want and i can even include pics(not trying to be smart a$$ but i really can if u want) however i've been trying to keep it short while maintaining important info.

WDRacing wrote:If the LS1 will fit, use it. It's light and has been known to make 600whp with basic NA mods...

true but the tranny? did u check the link? if i want a tranny to handle that hp then i have to put like $9000 in tranny alone! unless u know of another company or tranny i can attach to it that will handle the torque?

the tranny length seems to be what gets in the way so far. any further help is greatly appreciated.

Post by **redtop91** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:16 pm

Oh I get it. You want us to make a suggestion without any info. Et Al, a doctor prescribing medicine without being given symptoms. This thread sucks.

Post by **ATpossible** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:30 pm

ok...this is the last time ill respond to u. you made it clear that you r...well you know how u r. so here is a analogy for you. maybe now u will understand? ill even give hints just in case.

u r a doc (lol sure) and ill play another doc. i tell u we have a body that needs a heart transplant (engine).

however i tell you this is no normal transplant because we have certain restrictions we must go by which normally dont apply(hybrid).you ask what?

i say we need a heart that is small yet powerful (engine), but this heart needs to be placed farther back then normal(mid engine).

then i follow by saying that we need the heart (engine) to be within a certain length but because of the area we are putting it in (mount location), there is no need to worry about width or height because we have lots of room and no heart is known to surpass those dimensions.

then you ask what about blood type? i say all our possible hearts use same blood type (unleaded gas).

then u ask what kind of pump rate does the heart need to produce? (hp) i say we would need around 300whp to function properly.

then u ask what type of body is it? i say it doesnt matter since the body of the patient is mostly artificial in that area(custom rear).

you ask is it male or female? i say it doesnt matter since any heart works for both and the only thing that matters is it's size. any other changes that need to be made will be done to accommdate the new heart. (fab work)

then u ask again what type of body?(car type) i say forget it and let other doctors help with this setup.(hybrid design) u r well...like before, u know.

hope now u understand now? bye

Post by **redtop91** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:35 pm

There goes the care train...

Post by **JustinStrife** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:36 pm

IB4TL....

Post by **KATwo40** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:51 am

There's a kit out there that plops a Cadillac Northstar V8 (4.6) into a Fiero.

That being said, you should find any FWD setup to be adequate, whether it's 4-cyl or V8. The Northstar V8 is a great candidate because of it's alluminum construction. VERY light setup.

Post by **watty** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:52 am

I've looked into something similar before. One of the best bets for cheap is the transaxle out of the old Audi's. It is a longitudinal transaxle and is setup to have the engine towards the front of the car. After that, the engine choice is pretty much based on what your application is. Are you road racing, drag, drift, autocross? These will drive your requirements more than dimensions or model of vehicle. Give some feedback on the purpose of this vehicle and I'll make a list of engines for you to chose from.

Watty

Post by **ATpossible** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:32 am

thanks katwo40. pretty interesting. i googled it to get a quick view of what kind of setup it was. pretty crazy stuff and i never knew of fwd setups for v8 but hey i learned something new.

if i go a route like that i will prolly just stick with a 4 cyl.

i guess i was hoping to find an engine/tranny setup that placed the engine more in front of the tranny so that my weight distrubtion is better.

i saw a honda interga put a fwd engine in the back and "heard" they had some handling issues. not sure to what extent tho. anyway i wanna minimize that or not have it at all if possible.

wattydchi wrote:One of the best bets for cheap is the transaxle out of the old Audi's. It is a longitudinal transaxle and is setup to have the engine towards the front of the car. After that, the engine choice is pretty much based on what your application is. Are you road racing, drag, drift, autocross?Watty

do they already have adapter plates for engines? or is it something that has to be custom made. is the old audi transaxle any good?

i dont plan on this car passing street racing. i think it will most likely be a daily driver if all works out, with some weekend racing capablities.

thanks for help and input guys. it is greatly appreciated

Post by **WDRacing** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:36 am

You can put any motor in almost any platform. Handling can be addressed via suspension and frame work. A light 1.8 Vtec motor isn't going to cause any handling issue. If you're going with a mid/rear mount design, then thats probably the lightest motor you could possibly use.

Are you building a tube chassis? Is everything custom? WHat are you using the car for?

Post by **zanilth** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:38 am

If the rear of the car is going to be custom fabricated, then you can pretty much use whatever kind of engine you want. Too big? Make the car bigger.

Post by **ATpossible** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:51 pm

2.2 vtec but ya know what u mean and that is what i heard about handling so i wasnt sure but i was worried about it.

not for sure right now. i was originally planning on doing a half car half tube, but now i might just do tube. not for sure yet. leaning towards half and half

zanilth wrote:If the rear of the car is going to be custom fabricated, then you can pretty much use whatever kind of engine you want. Too big? Make the car bigger.

true except i wanna keep the whole car within certain lengths. including sections. im willing to go pass my limits a little bit to accomadate a good match when i find one.

ok guys on side note can a rear diff. theoretically be used in the font as a front diff? or how do front diff's differ from rear ones? also do u guys know which way the front driveshaft turns going into a front diff? random i know but thanks

Post by **WDRacing** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:35 pm

Are you considering AWD? If thats the case you may be better off buying a junked Talon or Eclipse and building a tube frame around that drive line...that would be a screamer. But the real answer is yes, you could use the rear diff as a front diff, in the 4wd community the diffs for the front and the back are very similar.

Post by **ATpossible** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:32 pm

yes i am. i thought that would be cool but if not rwd is good.

here is what I want to do. id like to make a porsche carrera gt replica, well sorta. overall the car will be that of porsche but im willing to make some things different but i dont want fwd at all. that is the one thing i dont want. second thing i will not consider otherwise is the engine HAS to be in the back. i dont care which one as long as its in the back and meets my needs and price limit.

i was thinking of the 4g63 since it seems to have lots of potential and price is good and parts appear to be abundent. however awd doesnt look possible if the engine is in rear or atleast to much work and money to make it work.

i was thinking a 4 cyl. that was originally transverse mounted could be turned perpendicular so that it is longitude mounted with each "axle" out of tranny being the new driveshafts for the front and rear wheels. then having a diff in the front and back to be awd. i read that is the best awd type setup were there is a lsd between front and rear and lsd's between left and right on both ends. more mechancial loss but sounds and would look nice.

so still looking at all possible engine/tranny setups.

oh read the thread of best engine. nice! didnt notice it before when i first started watching this subcategory.

Post by **rotorimp** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:26 pm

What about a SAAB 900 turbo (older pre GM)? they mount the motor on top of the trans and 300hp is no problem!. I have seen these motors mounted in the rear like your describing (the guy actually had Two in the car)

Post by **ATpossible** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:31 am

awesome. do u have a link or some kind of pic or any kind of extra help u can give so i can read into it and research that route more. ill search info today as much as possible. thanks

Post by **VQ35-Fiero** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:12 pm

This is a great kit car site http://www.naerc.com/index.cfm

If this is a Fiero Kit car or re body you can go here and fined anything. Fist search or ask http://www.fiero.nl

I'm a Fiero person and Ive seen everything you can think of in a Fiero. 2,4,6,8,12, turbine, electric, chopped, stretched, lifted, 4x4... You name it. Sometimes people just leave them stock.... Its Crazy!!

TRH

Post by **WDRacing** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:35 am

I've loved the Fiero ever since I was little kid. My GF had a GT back in the early 90's. Man that thing was a blast to drive.

I've come close to buying one a few times, but it always comes down to not enough money and to many existing projects. Oh and my wife would murder me if I brought home anouther car...

Yoy wouldn't by chance know of anyone that did or has a turbo V8 Lambo kit do ya? That would be sweet...

Welcome to NICO by the way.

WD

Post by **VQ35-Fiero** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 6:42 am

I Dont know anybody right but I'll ask around the Forum.

TRH

Post by **the_momo** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:26 am

have you considered using a flat four such as the ej20? version 7 sti motor sets arent too expensive and have huge power potential.

or if you really want that porsche feel, get the ej30(not 100% on motor name) flat six from the larger subarus (b9 tribeca off the top of my head) and turbo. small, light and the most compact motor, comparatively to others of similar displacement. and the trans is behind the motor.

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