Benefits over other engines?

[Robstar]

After new years eve, I'll be going into a local workshop that specialises in fabrication, rebuilds, conversions etc.. for an assortment of nissan engines + cars.

When they heard about putting a VH45DE into a 260z, the guy spat coffee (literally) over the phone and the mechanics of the joint definitely never heard of something like that done before. Can't blame them, it's not a common thing.

So when I go in, it'll be just to sit down and talk, about the work involved, sourcing parts, fabrication.. etc.. etc..

So I've got a few more questions again! Sorry. haha :P

Why exactly did you guys, whomever reads this thread, choose the VH45DE, what made you like this engine over other engines?

In comparison to smaller engines such as RB's and CA, is the VH45 superior in terms of max potential? Power output? Torque.

Since alot of emphasis was placed on sourcing by one of the mechanics at the workshop, anything that you recommend I take it? The guy mentioned if I'd be looking at many aftermarket parts such as the ECU, Pistons, etc etc. What aftermarket ECU goes well with the VH45de.

- Rob
Modified by Robstar at 5:58 AM 1/31/2008

[Florida240sx]

Wes will chime in on the ecu he has the skill to make you a Nico ecu. The block is fine except for timing chain guides on early years. 225ftlbs at idle and just mean. makes 500rwhp on little boost with nothing changed except tuning.WE are working on making cmas for it and abotu to have a new adapter plate to use the z32 5spd transmission. What more info would you like?

[gianavel]

Power potential?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_cRQhW7nj8

Need I say more.

I built this boat, (not the motor just the boat). But I had the good fortune to get to play with when it was running, as we had to help set it up. And it is a demon. Basically he takes on 8.1+ litre twin turbo big block puppies and goes well! that's a 4.5TT vs 8-8.5TT motors!This motor has seen 1500hp on a engine dyno! And it's turn keys and purrs like a factory Q45, no word of a lie. It has run in excess of 60 race hours without a hitch.

The VHs are lighter than RBs. That's a fact. Just look into the history of these motors and you'll keep coming across one name, Cosworth. Cosworth were heavily involved in the design and development of Nissan's V8 motors . Basically look at a Cosworth "DF" series motors and you'll be looking at the "parentage" of the VH motors.So in terms of potential it's lighter ,stronger and the power potential is insane!

After market parts? That's a bigger problem. It's taken me a while to find guys who can supply stuff at a decent price. Be careful a few guys out there thing they are the be all end all when it comes to these motors and they want to charge accordingly. But if you look long enough you'll get what you need.

Don't be afraid of what people say about these motors. Ignorance is bliss for them, when you start to pull yours down you'll see what we I mean. The word over-engineered comes to mind. And not in a bad way

If you would like any other data please don't hesitate to email me and we can chat some more.

Cheers

[redhat-z]

My reasons for choosing the VH are:

1) Being able to use a V8 made by Nissan,

2) 289hp out of the box.

3) Sailing into uncharted territory.

[David Steele]

Closed deck, X frame Valley, 6 bolt mains, dual port cylinder heads, dohc valve train + VVT, rod stroke ratio, factory tapped combustion chamber coolant passages, and its a NISSAN engine .
Modified by David Steele at 1:09 PM 12/28/2007

[darinz]

I'm using an Autronic ecu and cdi but it is pretty documented that the factory ecu can be remapped to suit. The biggest advantage of using something like an Autronic is a lot of people can tune it and with the cdi you can run whatever boost or even methanol without any issues.I used the VH as it is a biggish motor, that uses the same trans as a Patrol, it is extremely strong out of the box with a great torque range, can be boosted on factory internals to around 600hp, is relatively light (150kgs lighter than the Patrol motor), is very cheap to get hold of and is relatively uncommon. I wanted to do something a bit different that would really supprise a lot of people, and have a I even done that, except that most people that get in my truck now are scared!!!!!!!Compared to an RB or SR the VH is stronger and as said lighter than an RB. Potential power? Stronger than an RB and almost twice the size, what else needs to be said. Look at what they are getting from a Falcon XR6T motor and that is an indication of whatcan be easily achieved.Like most on here I could go on for ever as once you do the research you get very very biased!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mtcookson]

(150kgs lighter than the Patrol motor)

Is this a typo or did yours have a diesel in it?

[T45]

It was cheap. I paid 456 u.s. dollars for my 92 Q. Name another engine with this technology and power that you can buy for under 500 bucks and get a free car with it. Doesn't exist.

[RichZilla]

The guy mentioned if I'd be looking at many aftermarket parts such as the ECU, - Rob

If you're not planning to modify the engine, you don't need an aftermarket ECU. I hate people who think that just because a different engine is going in that you can't use the new engine's factory ECU. In almost all cases, this is absolute rubbish.

And now, why I chose the VH: I had a big car that needed a big engine. Couldn't get a 1UZ for a while, so went with a VH45. I'd only ever worked on a Q45 once before this. I knew nothing about the engine, apart from power figures, and that it had vvt. As time went on, I began to discover how good a choice I'd made. You cannot get a V8 this good for the money. It has turned the car into the ultimate sleeper. It's got a very quiet idle and people just don't expect to be beaten by an old Merc. One gentleman in his VY SS ute got very upset when I beat him.

[darinz]

Is this a typo or did yours have a diesel in it?

Yeah it was a TD42 which wiegh 356kg's!

[mtcookson]

Ahh, ok. I was going to say, that's one huge difference.

[Mettler]

Everyone's already said it... but the VH is a very high quality, very strong engine, with much better heads than most other options out there. And it's cheap!

[tmorgan4]

Power potential?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_cRQhW7nj8

Need I say more.

I built this boat, (not the motor just the boat). But I had the good fortune to get to play with when it was running, as we had to help set it up. And it is a demon. Basically he takes on 8.1+ litre twin turbo big block puppies and goes well! that's a 4.5TT vs 8-8.5TT motors!This motor has seen 1500hp on a engine dyno! And it's turn keys and purrs like a factory Q45, no word of a lie. It has run in excess of 60 race hours without a hitch.

The VHs are lighter than RBs. That's a fact. Just look into the history of these motors and you'll keep coming across one name, Cosworth. Cosworth were heavily involved in the design and development of Nissan's V8 motors . Basically look at a Cosworth "DF" series motors and you'll be looking at the "parentage" of the VH motors.So in terms of potential it's lighter ,stronger and the power potential is insane!

After market parts? That's a bigger problem. It's taken me a while to find guys who can supply stuff at a decent price. Be careful a few guys out there thing they are the be all end all when it comes to these motors and they want to charge accordingly. But if you look long enough you'll get what you need.

Don't be afraid of what people say about these motors. Ignorance is bliss for them, when you start to pull yours down you'll see what we I mean. The word over-engineered comes to mind. And not in a bad way

If you would like any other data please don't hesitate to email me and we can chat some more.

Cheers

That's YOUR boat? I've been watching that video for the last few months whenever I get bored with my project. I went to the Nizpro website at the end of the video but didn't see anything talking about that project.

1500hp? What has been done internally?

[gianavel]

That's YOUR boat? I've been watching that video for the last few months whenever I get bored with my project. I went to the Nizpro website at the end of the video but didn't see anything talking about that project.

1500hp? What has been done internally?

We'll not MY boat. I just built the floatie part Engine wise; -Forged bottom end-Heads got a clean up but nothing major, she literally sounds like a Q45 with a bigger exhaust. It's that smooth!-Basically fully blue-printed. But it's not as much as you might think.I don't have all the details, but that is what I know. She still runs a wet sump set up etc. Nothing was touched that didn't have to be. The bottom end got the attention mainly to lower the CR. Everything balanced and polished etc... the usual.

Bear in mind that this was 1500hp for one run only, she runs between 1000 to a max of 1200 for racing.And even then barely uses any of it! I got to see a graph readout from his data logger after one race. His TPS saw an average of 67% and a max of about 80% when he over took one boat. This was then and she has probably seen a lot of development since then as the owner is a pretty smart guy with a bank balance to match. So who knows what she can do now! I haven't seen the boat in a year as it is a different part of the country.

Yeah I would have though Nizpro would have put this on the front of their website. But they haven't updated in a while.

Cheers guys,

[Mettler]

R&D on the VH engine is still relatively scarce, so it wouldn't surprise me if they're keeping it largely under wraps for that reason.

[gianavel]

R&D on the VH engine is still relatively scarce, so it wouldn't surprise me if they're keeping it largely under wraps for that reason.

Exactly,I have been told they have been focusing on the actual combustion chamber design. They reckon they found another few horses there. But who knows!Nizpro are actually building a VK56 powered monster of a boat at the moment. Its the same boat as the Orange one with the 45 in it. It was actually built to take a Jet turbine motor, but it was then sold to Nizpro.

Should be good.

[Robstar]

R&D and factory tapped combustion chamber coolant passages? Don't quite understand what those mean haha.

Seems quite hard to find a VH45 for sale in Australia as well, they don't have the Q45 here.. Still looking though.

[Robstar]

Just need clarification on this statement: Found on another forum by another user.

"VH45 tends to be most people's pick, but that's because they approach the situation with little prior knowledge, thinking "bigger is better". The extra 400cc is the ONLY thing better about the VH45, the VH41 is so much better setup and easier to fit, and produces the same power by revving a bit higher. Factory redline on the VH45 is 6900, and on the VH41 it's 7500. Funny that, because both are capable of revving to nearly 8000RPM reliably. Hypereutectic pistons, strong rods, and steel crank + highly balanced motor will let you do that."

Some pro's have advised me the VH41 would be a better overall choice than the VH45 @ tenegah as well~

Not only that, but I've read alot of posts by a user on another forum called unharmonix, definitely knows what he's doing and putting VH45 internals in a VH41 doesn't sound like a bad idea. There is also someone who can get me a VH41 Half-cut, for quite cheap at that.
Modified by Robstar at 5:15 AM 1/3/2008

[evildky]

so your local race shop isn't too familar with the s30 chassis? these cars have recieved about every concievable swap sinve they hit the market, datsun even made a few with the old 70's model president v8 (Y40) in them, the VH swap is nothing new, the jag and BMW V12's are about the rarest but I know of a few of each, as for the VH...

while it's true there is no replacement for displacement the VH comes with it's own set of shortcomings, I gotta say I prefer not have to monkey a trans to fit a motor when there are so many options that don't involve this step, the VG30DETT will fit and has been done but also a PITA with all the pipintg and turbo placement etc but at least the trans bolts right on! I find it to be equally over engineered, the L6 is a proven power plant last campaigned by nissan in the Z32 in GT3 road racing in the 90's nearly 10 years after they stopped making the L28!

the RB's are great engines but come with a high pricetag and plenty of them have been swapped int the S30 chassis as well, and if you like an inline 6.......and if you wanna get crazy there are a few 2JZ s30's running around, one runs 9's on street tires!or you could stick with the tried and true L6, capable of north of 250whp with the stock internals, north of 300 whp with stock internals if it's turbo'd, or you could build a stroker etc, the L26 wasn't exaclty cream of the crop as far as L6 engines go, and the L28 might not be quite as capable as the RB26 but with the cost differential you could build the L28 to north of 600whp!

and there are plenty of low displacment SR's, CA's, rotary's, domestic v8 swaps etc

bottom line, look for something your comfortable working with that fits your skillset, if your not up to fabbing mounts and such the L28ET is a bolt in, with the right combination of parts the RB bolts in all though at a less than ideal locations, the SBC conversion requires only a couple of very basic plates, if your are comfotable tuning carbs the L6 or the domestic swaps are ideal, if you like stock managment injection the L28ET is about a 5 wire install, if your'c comfortable with wiring then megasquirt is fantastic for any injected engine, and free's you up from the goofy stock injectors and esensors used on stock systems

I speak of course of the s30 here, on an S13 you have different set of engines that fit, and I gotta say the LT1 looks perfect under the hood of an S13

[mtcookson]

Just need clarification on this statement: Found on another forum by another user.

"VH45 tends to be most people's pick, but that's because they approach the situation with little prior knowledge, thinking "bigger is better". The extra 400cc is the ONLY thing better about the VH45, the VH41 is so much better setup and easier to fit, and produces the same power by revving a bit higher. Factory redline on the VH45 is 6900, and on the VH41 it's 7500. Funny that, because both are capable of revving to nearly 8000RPM reliably. Hypereutectic pistons, strong rods, and steel crank + highly balanced motor will let you do that."

Some pro's have advised me the VH41 would be a better overall choice than the VH45 @ tenegah as well~

Not only that, but I've read alot of posts by a user on another forum called unharmonix, definitely knows what he's doing and putting VH45 internals in a VH41 doesn't sound like a bad idea. There is also someone who can get me a VH41 Half-cut, for quite cheap at that.

Modified by Robstar at 5:15 AM 1/3/2008

The VH41 being talked about in that quote is the VH41 available overseas... not the VH41 offered over here. Definitely do not get a US spec VH41, they are nothing close to the VH45 and the overseas VH41.

the L6 is a proven power plant last campaigned by nissan in the Z32 in GT3 road racing in the 90's nearly 10 years after they stopped making the L28!

I love that car... a tube chassis Z32 race car that weighs less than 2,000 lbs

http://www.race-cars.com/carsa...s.htm

[perana]

so your local race shop isn't too familar with the s30 chassis? these cars have recieved about every concievable swap since they hit the market, datsun even made a few with the old 70's model president v8 (Y40) in them.............

Hi,evildky do you perhaps have any info on this car.i have seen one and very curious.sorry about going of the topic.Thanks.

* I fixed your code, evildky*

[evildky]

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.ph ... =117google is your friend

[perana]

thanks alot.ive been into this engine for years now,but never got around to doing any thing.the power of a ttz32 and turbo vh45 basically made me forget about them.i have a borg warner t5 box that aparently comes off one and a brand new cam.i'm gonna see if i can get a motor now and start a old school datsun project.thanks again

[Robstar]

The VH41 being talked about in that quote is the VH41 available overseas... not the VH41 offered over here. Definitely do not get a US spec VH41, they are nothing close to the VH45 and the overseas VH41.

This left me a little confused, so it's the US spec VH41 that was no good, but everywhere else, it was fine?

[evildky]

thanks alot.ive been into this engine for years now,but never got around to doing any thing.the power of a ttz32 and turbo vh45 basically made me forget about them.i have a borg warner t5 box that aparently comes off one and a brand new cam.i'm gonna see if i can get a motor now and start a old school datsun project.thanks again

the T5 came in the 82-83 280ZXT with a bellhousing that fits any L series engine, the 84-86 300ZXT also came with a T5 but with a bellhousing to fit the VG series engines, it might fit the twin cam VG30DETT but I don't know if it'll mesh with the twincan flywheel

[mtcookson]

This left me a little confused, so it's the US spec VH41 that was no good, but everywhere else, it was fine?

Correct. The US VH41 isn't supposed to be quite as good as the US VH45 and JDM VH41.

[Robstar]

Correct. The US VH41 isn't supposed to be quite as good as the US VH45 and JDM VH41.

Ahhh thanks for letting me know, just looked up a fair bit about both engines, good thing we don't have US versions of cars or car engines here, mostly Japan imports. I think I only have access to the JDM VH41.

[perana]

yes, thats correct its from a 280zx but the flywheel fits? i just went throu al my junk under the house and found a 650cfm holy,cam.8.8mm accel leads.trying to get hold of a guy who has one $250nz and orderd one from a importer who siad if theres one japan he'll get it.now what car to put it in?cheers

[mtcookson]

Ahhh thanks for letting me know, just looked up a fair bit about both engines, good thing we don't have US versions of cars or car engines here, mostly Japan imports. I think I only have access to the JDM VH41.

Ahhhh, I didn't realize you were in Australia. WA made me think Washington USA.

[evildky]

yes, thats correct its from a 280zx but the flywheel fits? i just went throu al my junk under the house and found a 650cfm holy,cam.8.8mm accel leads.trying to get hold of a guy who has one $250nz and orderd one from a importer who siad if theres one japan he'll get it.now what car to put it in?cheers

there are 2 different 280ZX flywheels, the T5 was on the turbo cars and fits a 240mm flywheel, the na's use the same flywheel and clutch but different trans, 2 seater n/a's and all 70-78 used a 225mm disk, the splining for all clutch disks from 70-96 are all the same but the disk diameters changed a lot (z31's got 240mm and 250mm ( I believe the z32's used the same sizes but with beefier pressure plates)), and all 70-89 flywheels are 6 bolt, 90-96 are 8 bolt, for the VH you need the 8 bolt flywheel found on the Z32, the T5 shaft will engage either the n/a or TT clutchdisk but of course you'll have to adapt the trans to fit the block which is the whole issue I have with the VH