Been debating whether to post this...

[I H8 UR DSM]

Marriage was derived from a latin word meaning union of man and woman. This is a really brief and undescriptive definition. This is the meaning of marriage. The union of two guys or two gals, is not considered marriage. Dont get me wrong. I dont believe it's good to be gay, but that is what my Christian belief is. I dont go discriminating against gays and i have friends that are gay, but under definintion two people of the same sex can not be married. Now the definition didnt say that an asian woman and a caucasion man's union isnt a marriage. They are man and woman, so they fall under that definition. Now if two people of the same sex want to get married, we need to invent a new word for it. Its not hard, have them agree on a word. We create words like crazy. Look how the internet has created so many new words. So my opinion and belief, if two couples of the same sex want a union or bond, then create a new word for but dont call it a marriage.

Thats just rediculous, and incredibly contradictive...If we started incorportating all the ancient meanings and ideals into todays era, topics like this wouldnt even be discussed. There is a reason for modern interpetations and developement of ancient ideas and ideals. And if you try to tell me that today's marriages constitute and include the same process's and form as marriages do today. again you saying 'by definition'..i think you are forgeting we do NOT follow ancient definitions any longer, they have to be modernized as society has become. By your definition, none of the marriages we have today are 'a marriage'.

I cant even begin to express my utter disapointment that something so ignorant would be spewed upon a board looking for inteligent discussion.

Its almost amazing how much the 'church' seems to be holding people back in the 'old' way's of thinking and expression.:help

[InstantRice]

Man, sky hasnt said anything i dont agree with yet

Marriage was derived from a latin word meaning union of man and woman. This is a really brief and undescriptive definition. This is the meaning of marriage. The union of two guys or two gals, is not considered marriage. Dont get me wrong. I dont believe it's good to be gay, but that is what my Christian belief is. I dont go discriminating against gays and i have friends that are gay, but under definintion two people of the same sex can not be married. Now the definition didnt say that an asian woman and a caucasion man's union isnt a marriage. They are man and woman, so they fall under that definition. Now if two people of the same sex want to get married, we need to invent a new word for it. Its not hard, have them agree on a word. We create words like crazy. Look how the internet has created so many new words. So my opinion and belief, if two couples of the same sex want a union or bond, then create a new word for but dont call it a marriage.

I got the word its new and hip "marizzle dizzle"

I dont think the government should be able to regulate the marriage of 2 people because its more or less a religous concept that has carried over into the realm of financial benifits and tax breaks and exceptions. Now Fezzik Looking at the literal meaning of the word marriage is like saying "it says here all men are created equal it doesnt say **** about women!" All laws are open to debate or interpertation. Its the basis of judicial review. I just dont think the literal meaning of a word or "law" means thats the only thing that law or word can mean, in this case marriage. Banning of gay union is no better than what this country has done to other minorities and women.

The use of the bible as a means to keep gay people oppressed is pretty rediculous. A) Christianity shouldnt come into play at all in a legal matter. B) We are supposed to do whats in the best interest of the majority while respecting the minority. This doesnt respect the minority.C) "gods word" (not really his words) has steered us wrong before (see: Manifest destiny)

take this with a grain of salt, cause this is the ramblings of a drunk criminal justice/poli sci student.

[InstantRice]

GET em dsm

[I H8 UR DSM]

This whole issue, IMO, boils down to 2 things:1. Politics - Some political person made a promise to get votes, now he is making good on his promise.2. Money - Tax dollars, and Lawyer fees.

I don't agree with same sex mariages, or homosexuality, but I believe the government dosen't need to be even wasting its time on these issues. Lets spend some time on more important issues.

Most heterosexual marriages end in divorce. What makes you think same-sex marriages will be any different.

Why can't we all just get along?

Just thought i'd ramble, for a few minutes.:oface

Heres another one i have to discuss...

Chances are, at somepoint in your blood lines, there will be a homosexual in your family. Now by the way i see you express your feelings shows me that he/she would NOT be accepted by you. I also find a lot of these views expressed by religious people, which is disturbing also. If this is the way our government and 'church' is looking to have homosexuals viewed, its just sad, and going to be another downfall of the society which everyone holds in such high esteem.

For one im German, blue eyes, blond hair blah blah, and to see people express views like this is hypocritcal and humerous. I wonder how many people who posted against homosexuality are part of the 'pure race' and how many of THEM are unpure, immigrants, europeans, south americans etc. Because at some point, you are going to be unaccepted, which at that time, will be signing another tune..and its just sad.

So closed minded.

[InstantRice]

to elaborate, Quote » Most Heterosexual marriages end in divorce. What makes you think same-sex marriages will be any different[/quote]Thats not the issue here. The divorce rate would say roughly the same. If thats the governments best defence, they dont have a leg to stand on. The issue is that its not only oppression of a fairly large group of people but its more or less taking money from that group (tax exemptions ect.)

[I H8 UR DSM]

I tried to give a non opinionated non religion view above to prove my fact, but I want to go on and say that The US good ole' of A was founded on a Christian belief ("In God we Trust") and that same sex marriages should not be allowed in the USA because of that reason, but if the gays want to be together then they should NOT call it a marriage. It's a sin and stated many times in the OT and NT of the bible. I mean look what happened to sodom and gemorah (apologize for the spelling)

are you not intelligent enough to realize that 'most' of those 'belief' the 'good ole' of A' , lol, was founded on have been MODERNIZED????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Let me guess...we should still allow praying in US schools, because its america, and **** all the other religions, right? Because WE are the best and they are the worst.....wah wah wah

[Jeff Williams]

Thats the great thing about opinions, everybody has one, even bleeding heart liberals.

[Jeff Williams]

Quote »are you not intelligent enough to realize that 'most' of those 'belief' the 'good ole' of A' , lol, was founded on have been MODERNIZED[/quote]

How do you mondernize a belief?

[GatorS14]

why does anyone want to get married? gay or straight? If you want to be with someone be with them, you don't need a wedding to tell you how much you love someone.do you?

weddings i thought were religous.correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure until yesterday there has never been a religion that supported same sex relations.

i could care less about some document saying bob & joe are married.but i think it gets a little complicated when Tax credits and dedutions and discounts on insurance and stuff come into play.And that is were i think the government gets involved(i think).

so i wonder if gay people support incest marriages? since everyone is equal right?

[MaineExport]

Let me guess...we should still allow praying in US schools, because its america

Oh... but wait a minute... this doesn't make any sense Jesse? We must be forced to tolerate and accept gay marriage, but heaven forbid people be subjected to prayer in schools.:rolleyes

Talk about blatant ignorance. You are so convinced that you are right, that you fail to recognize your own hypocrisy. You insist that everyone must accept homosexuality as part of 'normal' society. You preach tolerance and what not, and in the same breath you bash religion and dismiss those of us with our morality set in religion, as being 'old fashioned', closed minded, and ignorant.

This is a typical, self-righteous, liberal argument. Accuse everyone who doesn’t fall in line with your 'modern', progressive viewpoint of being some how stuck in the past. Your opinion is no more right or wrong than anyone else’s. Get your head out of your a$$ and stop assuming that because it's your opinion... that it's right. It is simply an opinion.

[Nathan]

Good point Gator, it's just like I said earlier...people get desensitized (or "modernized" as others have said it) to something and then they dont care...I wonder if incest was something widely spoken about, joked about, and practiced if it too could be made normal. Perhaps then Jesse could defend screwing his sister (sorry Jesse, that one was just too easy to pass up for me!) I'm a part of that same master race, but that's not the point...I was born with German blood in me, I didn't CHOOSE to be German. Homosexual's have the choice to act upon their feelings or not. Oh well, I guess when it comes down to it, I'm just an old fashioned guy...and I like it that way!

Edit: I forgot about your prayer in schools comment. Do you have to listen to a prayer and believe every word that is spoken? No...you have the choice to just ignore it, just like loud music. 86% of Americans believe in god, why dont we let the majority rule on this one, after all, that IS what a Democracy is all about.

[Jeff Williams]

Quote »This is a typical, self-righteous, liberal argument. Accuse everyone who doesn’t fall in line with your 'modern', progressive viewpoint of being some how stuck in the past. Your opinion is no more right or wrong than anyone else’s.[/quote]

Well said

[I H8 UR DSM]

Oh... but wait a minute... this doesn't make any sense Jesse? We must be forced to tolerate and accept gay marriage, but heaven forbid people be subjected to prayer in schools.:rolleyes

Talk about blatant ignorance. You are so convinced that you are right, that you fail to recognize your own hypocrisy. You insist that everyone must accept homosexuality as part of 'normal' society. You preach tolerance and what not, and in the same breath you bash religion and dismiss those of us with our morality set in religion, as being 'old fashioned', closed minded, and ignorant.

This is a typical, self-righteous, liberal argument. Accuse everyone who doesn’t fall in line with your 'modern', progressive viewpoint of being some how stuck in the past. Your opinion is no more right or wrong than anyone else’s. Get your head out of your a$$ and stop assuming that because it's your opinion... that it's right. It is simply an opinion.

Is that really how you read into that statement?? Should be tolerate prayer in schools? Sure why not..but that would mean acceptance and prayer of all forms of religion, and thats not the case. Just think of how much media attention one girl, or one nba player gets for not standing for the pledge or the anthem...

Im tolerant of all religions, im am intolerant of people who think their views or beliefs overshadow those of another person or race. The only person i accused of 'stuck in the past' was the person who wanted to go back to latin definitions of words, and OLD WORLD beliefs (and that is a specific thing). Did i say that everyone that studies a religion is old fashioned? No, i think should re read.(do i think that most people who follow their 'faith' closely are close minded, yes i do, and i think thats a fact, and i find it most noticable when you take catholics into a Philosophy course, and even know they want to understand, sometimes they find it hard, it goes against whats in their mind, and it breeds ignorance...does it mean they are ALL close minded and ignorant? NO, not at all, i would be ignorant to say that some of the most brilliant people in this world have been religious, but it would also be ignorant to say that some of them werent Aethiest.)My opinion isnt more right or wrong to you. Thats your opinion, and its fine to have....but if your going to contend that no one's opinion is more right or wrong then the next, then i'll contend that their is no such thing as right or wrong, therefor why do the words exist?

And "Hipocrasy"?? Are you going to condend that we dont live under a country full of hipocracy? Because we do. Thats america.

[I H8 UR DSM]

And i believe that religious arguements are a waste of time, its not really going to change a person's views unless they take it upon themselves to....I am sure of were i will be in the end....I dont know how sure you are. But i would love to hear you say "i'll be in heaven, because i have faith"...because that does entertain me. : )

Thanks have a good day, signing off.

If you want to know my beliefs..i believe we're here to experience all we can in this world...its all we really have...i dont believe you sacrafice experience, for a goal to be accepted in some form of 'afterlife'...

Hey, the terrorlst commited suicide bombings, with the belief of a great afterlife, but thats rediculous to you right???

Step outside the box for a minute then.

[Meantime]

I agree with Jesse.

And on a side note, everybody needs to calm down. An opinion can be expressed without attacking someone else - that's the mature way to hold a discussion. Don't take someone else's views as a personal affront. Are we children here, or adults?

[MaineExport]

Originally posted by I H8 UR DSM "]im am intolerant of people who think their views or beliefs overshadow those of another person

This being exactly my point. Refer to the rest of your post and note the hypocrisy. Okay... I'll do it for you.

(do i think that most people who follow their 'faith' closely are close minded, yes i do, and i think thats a fact

Hrmmm... maybe it's just me... but it sounds like you feel your beliefs overshadow people of faith.

....but if your going to contend that no one's opinion is more right or wrong

Perhaps I should have worded that more carefully. I meant to say that between me, you, and the rest of the world... no one's opinion in more valuable or correct than another's. The actual judgment of right or wrong is not for us to decide as individuals. You said it yourself... mod rule. It's not exactly black and white like that... but the rules of society are determined by what we chose to accept or condemn. However, the rules of morality and what constitutes and "good" person are not for ANY of us to determine individually or as a society. In my case that is between me and God. What makes you a good, moral person... I don't have an answer to that, but I'm guessing that it is based solely upon what is inside. then i'll contend that their is no such thing as right or wrong, therefor why do the words exist?

For you maybe there isn't. My mind is pretty clear about what is right and what is wrong.

Are you going to condend that we dont live under a country full of hipocracy? Because we do. Thats america.

Two things:

1. If you don't like it... you are free to leave. God I love this country!!

2. Yes, hypocrisy runs ramped in all aspects of society. But, those who TRY to rise above it could be considered the enlightened ones. If you are content living life as a hypocrite, then by all means... go forth and do so. I'll try to better myself until the day I die.

[Anand]

no more of this.... I'm just going to keep my coments to my self now...

[skydragoness]

Lets spend some time on more important issues.

yeah the government should be spending time on more important issues than this. for example, my local newspaper, on the front page had a picture of the president, one side of it had the article about his recent statement banning gay marriage, and the other side says "president takes 'personal responsibility' for inaccuracy in State of Union address"

which is being paid more attention to (on a whole)? the one on the left of course. the other one gets swept under the carpet.

[yashin]

1. religion + politics = a terrible mix, these two have no reason to be in bed with each other, it's been proven time and time again that when a country becomes a theocracy, or bases its laws on religous texts, that things inevitable go badly, i.e. spanish inquistion, iran, saudi, etc. etc.

2. the one reason that i personally don't understand peoples oppositon to homosexual marriages is this: why differenc does it make to you?? if you aren't directly affected by this, then why should you care?? how does two people getting married have any impact on your life whatsoever? that's right! it doesn't, your life will be no better or worse if Robert Fitzpatrick and Patrick Fitzrobert decide to get married

3. and more gay marriages = more chicks dyking it out in the street!! haha, sorry i had to put that in!

4.i don't understand the obsession that some americans have, with having a strong state government as opposed to a strong federal government, if u are one country, should there not be one set of laws and standards?? i beleive the civil war is over, and that the north did win, why are u still fighting for a stronger state government?

5. fyi, here in toronto we have legalizedgay marriages and soon the whole country will have it legalized, and trust me i haven't seen any horsemen flyin around in the skies

[Meantime]

Bravo Yashin! It's always good to have a perspective outside of America introduced into the mix.

BTW, your handle isn't a reference to a certain Islanders center, is it?

[Cyberkreig]

I am not christian.I am not gay.

My feelings on both of those groups of people are my own.

I will say that I do not feel the government has the rightto interfere with two peoples sexuality. If two people decide to spend their lives together, then let them.

[Nathan]

Yashin, gay marriages DO impact everyone's day to day life. If Gay marriages are allowed then it means that gays will be that much more accepted by everyone. I will hear about more gay people and see more people being openly gay. I dont like gay people, I dont WANT to see gay people together and I dont give a flying **** about their feelings or if they want to be accepted or not. If I can tell they are gay, then it's a problem. The morals of this country are going straight to hell and gay people are one of the reasons why. Am I being close minded about this? Of course...because that's the way it should be. The more tolerant I am of gays, the more I will have to listen to my 5 year old kid (when I have one) ask me why those two men are holding hands. I dont want to have to explain homosexuality to them. It goes against nature and god. Perhaps it should be treated as a mental illness and be treated as such. Put them all in a mental institute until the issues causing them to choose that lifestyle are worked out. People are not born gay, it's a choice that they make because of some outside stimuli that turned them away from the opposite sex and towards their own sex.

[yashin]

BTW, your handle isn't a reference to a certain Islanders center, is it?

no, that's actually my name, not really a huge fan of alexei, not since what he did to the senators

sorry back on topic

Nathan, just because you beleive that homosexuality is wrong, doesn't necessarily make it wrong, nor should it make it illegal, many people beleive that eating meat is wrong(not me though), yet it is still legal even against the wishes of vegeterians and vegans, and you could easily argue that of the 2 (homosexuality and meat eating) meat eating is worse, because at least with homosexuality, no creature is being killed,

homosexuality, meat eating, and other things people disagree with are legal, not based on moral grounds, but based on the fact that everyone has the right to live their lives as they see fit, given that they don't infringe of the freedoms of other people,therefore, since homosexuality in no way infringes on your constitutional rights, it should be legal, ditto for gay marriages

i don't think this issue should be based on feelings, morals, and opinions, these are all very arbitary, it should be based on laws, and peoples rights

you don't have to like homosexuality, you just have to undersatnd and respect the fact that they are given the right to do whatever they want

btw, i am playing devils advocate ( don't mean to call gays the devil), because personnaly i don't like seein two guys go at each other

all this coming from a political science major

oh, one more thing, didn't people leave england to come to america to get away from religious persecution?

[aznromeox]

I am not very religous and am not a Homosexual...

Personally, my belief is that If you love something thats your decision. I don't think religion should be involved but no matter how we put it, but that fact is will be. The President and "nearly" all pollations are regligous. I havn't heard of many that arn't. It shouldn't be banned. Thats like saying we should bring back segregation. Do people have that much hate in people. I feel if you vote yes to ban gay marriages you have hate in a certain type of people. There is no priniple behind all of this. I think a men and a women is more "functional" but doesn't mean that homosexuals don't have the same "loving-caring" relationship. Is the idea of seeing something different bad?

This is from a 16 year olds perspective showing that Generation X is not the stereotypical view some people see.-Ron

[Sopdadope]

2. the one reason that i personally don't understand peoples oppositon to homosexual marriages is this: why differenc does it make to you?? if you aren't directly affected by this, then why should you care??

Just for being wise and having some good ole' common sense (a rarity nowadays), imma knock down a couple of Molsons with you next time I'm up in Canada.

Speaking of foreign perspectives, the Bush administration just made a laughing-stock out of itself by even addressing the issue of gay marriages when there's a laundry list of issues that carry greater salience.

Now as for the topic of gays. I've been hand-in-hand with Jesse on this one (no pun intended ). Arguing that homosexuality is wrong because the bible says so, is utterly vapid to someone like me who holds no faith (I can consider myself semi-Buddhist). Now listen to John Lennon and just for one second, forget about religion. If Christianity didn't condemn homosexuality, where would your hatred derive from? Hmmm...good question. I'm indifferent to gays- if it doesn't bother them, why should it bother me? The relationship between two consenting adults, albeit of the same sex, has no bearing on me, period.

Nathan, you're disapprobation, or should I say, animosity towards gays befuddles and frightens me. It's understandable in your case to carry a dislike towards homosexuals, but hostile disposition such as yours is just nonsensical IMO. If anyone needs "to work out their problems in a looney bin," a little soul-searching couldn't do you any harm. Close-mindedness (not saying you are) because of extreme heedfulness to the Bible caused a family to break up (dated white girls, latinas and even a brazilian girl, sometimes parents weren't very accepting- I'm asian BTW). Furthermore, human love is the ultimate, indiscrimate emotion- it knows no bounds.

Jesse, what do you say to a convo over a cup of 'cawfee' sometime? Or should we make that cappucino's with extra foam?

[Meantime]

no, that's actually my name, not really a huge fan of alexei, not since what he did to the senators

My bad, I figured it was one or the other. Leafs fan? Great series against the Flyers, best of the playoffs.

oh, one more thing, didn't people leave england to come to america to get away from religious persecution? [/QUOTE]

*sigh* That was the original idea, yes...the irony is sad.

[Sopdadope]

Next week I'll share my idea on where to test new nuclear weapons on a little chunk of land in europe that the world could do without anyhow.....Paul

Paul thinks JUST like I do...I actually have said the island and nuke bit before

The morals of this country are going straight to hell and gay people are one of the reasons why. Am I being close minded about this?

Again, I'm not Christian so I could be wrong. But won't herding gays onto an island and nukin' em earn you a first class ticket to Hell too? (je suis désolé, Paul)

[Sopdadope]

My bad, I figured it was one or the other. Leafs fan? Great series against the Flyers, best of the playoffs.

oh, one more thing, didn't people leave england to come to america to get away from religious persecution?

*sigh* That was the original idea, yes...the irony is sad. [/QUOTE]

Yes, a tragedy as well. Of Shakespearean proportions.

From the grasp of one tyrranical, looney George to another. (J/K, I actually approve of the man)

[Meantime]

My thing is, why so eager to nuke France?

Yeah, they stood in our imperalist way...but...they have great food over there and nice-looking women.

Wouldn't you rather nuke someplace that has bad food and ugly women, like Tajikistan? Or Montana?

[big jon's 240]

If gay people want to get married, let them move to Canada and do it. Its not natural, i dont care what anyone says.