Bee R rev limiter ?

[carkook]

I agree that running rich is better then running lean also, but that isnt what this is about. When you get a fuel cut it isn't running lean, It is a complete missfire. Meaning there is no internal combustion happening. I think people are miss understanding what the fuel cut does.

You are thinking it is just running extremely lean, but if there is no air/fuel mixture being burned and no actual firing and igniting of this. Its just air. It isnt running lean because it isnt running at all.

Running lean is completely different. Thats when you still have an air/fuel mixture being burned, but not enough fuel to air percentage. In this case its all air and ther is no firing happening.

[Kansei240sx]

Fuel cut is not safer than ignition cut.

Fuel cools the cylinders down at higher RPMs.

You're going to increase cylinder temperature at higher rpms drastically when you drop fuel for a few split seconds, causing damage over time.

If you cut ignition and fuel mist is injected into the cylinder a cylinder quench occurs dropping the temp of the combustion chamber and the unburnt and unvaporized air fuel mixture goes into the exhaust. Since the exhaust is so hot from an already running engine, the exhaust is the catalyst that re-ignites the fuel causing the loud popping or back-firing in the exhaust.

I dont know about you guys, but i'd rather have the engine dump a little bit of fuel for a higher RPM situation and worry about changing spark plugs occasionally from a rich condition than possible engine failure due than being into fuel cut threshold all day when drifting or on a circuit track.

If you ever get the chance, just watch a data log from AFR plots for comparing fuel cut to ignition cut and the difference is clear.

In my experience, Fuel cut < Ignition Cut

I have used the Bee-R before and had no problems with it, and THE worst thing i've seen it do is burn up glass packs, but thats about it.

[Stripes]

I get what carkook is saying and it makes sense, not quite sure about kansei's input though because I really don't see how a spark will have a high enough heat output to raise cylinder temperatures without firing anything?? I bought a bee*r because for some reason the ecu that came with my sr doesn't have a rev limiter so I wanted some kind of security. After I installed it though, I still have no rev limit......... something's effed up on that ecu

[carkook]

Fuel cut is not safer than ignition cut.

Fuel cools the cylinders down at higher RPMs.

You're going to increase cylinder temperature at higher rpms drastically when you drop fuel for a few split seconds, causing damage over time.

If you cut ignition and fuel mist is injected into the cylinder a cylinder quench occurs dropping the temp of the combustion chamber and the unburnt and unvaporized air fuel mixture goes into the exhaust. Since the exhaust is so hot from an already running engine, the exhaust is the catalyst that re-ignites the fuel causing the loud popping or back-firing in the exhaust.

I dont know about you guys, but i'd rather have the engine dump a little bit of fuel for a higher RPM situation and worry about changing spark plugs occasionally from a rich condition than possible engine failure due than being into fuel cut threshold all day when drifting or on a circuit track.

If you ever get the chance, just watch a data log from AFR plots for comparing fuel cut to ignition cut and the difference is clear.

In my experience, Fuel cut < Ignition Cut

I have used the Bee-R before and had no problems with it, and THE worst thing i've seen it do is burn up glass packs, but thats about it.

So your saying an engine makes more heat when theres a missfire then there is when your burning an air/fuel mixture? Im pretty your drastic heat rise is false, if anything it would be much cooler then what the cylinder sees during normal running operation.

[S133P3R]

Sound clip of tezuka's BNR32http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IctMl9xM ... ?v...latedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8wE8NTK ... ?v...latedi would love to hear this car in person

those are some loud a** backfires

they dont call him "Shotgun" Tezuka for nothing.IMO: hearing "Shotguns" RB with the BEE*R bouncing off the rev-limiter shooting fireballs and shot gun sounds is like walking up to the pearly gates of heaven and having god look me in the face and say "You are my greatest creation... EVVUR!"or something like that...

[Kansei240sx]

Yes, that is what i am saying, Gasoline is a lubricant and a coolant for the cylinders, the only thing it does when ignition cuts is take away ambient cylinder heat from the previous combustion just fractions of a second earlier, which is still enough to make a difference when you're in the red zone all day.

[carkook]

Yes, that is what i am saying, Gasoline is a lubricant and a coolant for the cylinders, the only thing it does when ignition cuts is take away ambient cylinder heat from the previous combustion just fractions of a second earlier, which is still enough to make a difference when you're in the red zone all day.

If you think a cylinder that isnt firing what so ever is hotter then a cylinder actually firing and makin an internal combustion (explosion) your a moron.

[Kansei240sx]

Obviously you can't comprehend what my point was then, because you're thinking the wrong way about what i said.

[carkook]

So your saying an engine makes more heat when theres a missfire then there is when your burning an air/fuel mixture? Im pretty your drastic heat rise is false, if anything it would be much cooler then what the cylinder sees during normal running operation.

Yes, that is what i am saying, Gasoline is a lubricant and a coolant for the cylinders, the only thing it does when ignition cuts is take away ambient cylinder heat from the previous combustion just fractions of a second earlier, which is still enough to make a difference when you're in the red zone all day.

Thats pretty strait forward, unless you didnt misunderstood my point in the first place.

Overall, a fuel cutt does not result in a lean condition. A lean condition is when there is fuel and air being burned, but very little fuel. In a fuell cutt it completly cutts fuel and there is no combustion or firing of anything. There is no stress on the cylinder whatsoever because there is no explosion at all. So all this about it running lean when you hit a fuel cutt is false. Then arguing that a rich engine is better then lean has no point. Because my statements show that there is no lean condition.

Then your statement saying that fuel is going to cool the cylinder, obviously a cylinder that isnt firing(during a fuel cutt) is going to run much cooler then one firing in the first place so there is no harm in terms of heat. So thats pretty much bull.

So if your gonna sit here and try to explain why washing your rings with fuel is better then cutting fuel completly and having no rich or lean condition, your just wasting your time.

This is how it was explained to me by a mechanical engineer, you really think your explanations are more educated, and even I can see why the points you are trying to make are wrong

[nekoabandoned]

saying that when you hit the factory rev limiter there wont be even a molecule of fuel left in the cylinder to burn is unfathomable. in a perfect world where motors expel all fuel from the cylinders after every stroke your "mechanical engineer" would be correct.

mechanical engineer = the glass is neither half full nor half empty its twice the size it needs to be, and thats why they always spill there drinks

[carkook]

If the injector isnt letting any fuel in then where else could it come from? Really it sounds like your talking out of your a**. Motors dont burn fuel, were talking about engines here. And to say that all the fuel is gone after a power stroke is false. This is why some engines get spark twice during the intake, compression, power, and exhaust strokes. One on power and one on exhaust to burn watever fuel is left.

[Crautz240]

There is no arguing with this guy plp... his teacher told him so, so it must be right!!

[Stripes]

Does anyone know why mine isn't working right? My ecu never had a rev limiter so I got a bee*r. I hooked it up right, and when I set it to a limit the light will blink but it doesn't cut ignition like it's supposed to. Is there a rev signal wire somewhere that tell the ecu that it needs to cut fuel?/thread jack

[jeff420]

Thats pretty strait forward, unless you didnt misunderstood my point in the first place.

Overall, a fuel cutt does not result in a lean condition. A lean condition is when there is fuel and air being burned, but very little fuel. In a fuell cutt it completly cutts fuel and there is no combustion or firing of anything. There is no stress on the cylinder whatsoever because there is no explosion at all. So all this about it running lean when you hit a fuel cutt is false. Then arguing that a rich engine is better then lean has no point. Because my statements show that there is no lean condition.

Then your statement saying that fuel is going to cool the cylinder, obviously a cylinder that isnt firing(during a fuel cutt) is going to run much cooler then one firing in the first place so there is no harm in terms of heat. So thats pretty much bull.

So if your gonna sit here and try to explain why washing your rings with fuel is better then cutting fuel completly and having no rich or lean condition, your just wasting your time.

This is how it was explained to me by a mechanical engineer, you really think your explanations are more educated, and even I can see why the points you are trying to make are wrong

but can you see the point where the op said he doesnt wanna hear what the effects on his engine will be? so whats the purpose of sitting there arguing about something that doesnt even matter? someone got too much time on their hands?

[carkook]

but can you see the point where the op said he doesnt wanna hear what the effects on his engine will be? so whats the purpose of sitting there arguing about something that doesnt even matter? someone got too much time on their hands?

I was just trying educate people on what the fuel cutt really does. Everythong is stuck thinking its horrible for your engine. When really it has the advantages. So if you actually understood that the fuel cutt is actually better then an ignition cutt you wouldnt want to spend your money on something that really isnt necessary.

It just turned into an argument because people no matter what think they are right even when they might have very little knowledge on the subject rather then try and understand what I am explaining and that they might actually be wrong. If you take the time and read what I have stated and what they have said, you can clearly see that every statement I make is backed by fact. But I guess some people think they are smarter then someone who was trusted to work on some of the biggest engines on marine ships in the navy, and with several years of expierence in the automotive field building engines.

[Stripes]

.....anyone?

[assassin7420]

It's proven that fuel cut rev limiters cause knock in high horse power engines. Go look it up.

[carkook]

Knocking is when an engines air/fuel mixture doesnt ignite at the precise time it should be, so I dont see how a fuel cutt would cause this because there is no fuel.

Overrevving or staying at redline would be a more likely cause. How bout you explain, or show some links to somewhere I can read about how fuel cut directly causes knock. Because I looked, and couldnt find anything.

[assassin7420]

Quote »The Power FC Pro Spec.CPU has been designed for drag racing use. These units have two additional functions over the regular units: 1. Ignition cut used for rpm limiter - Regular Power FCs cut fuel feed when the preset revolution limit is reached. At high rpm, there is the possibility of knocking when the fuel is cut in high-powered cars. The Power FC Pro CPUs cut ignition at the rpm limit to prevent the knocking that could potentially destroy the engine. 2. 0km/h rpm limiter setting - Allows for the setting for an initial rpm limiter that is active whilst the car is not in motion. This allows for mainting a rpm level for consistent launches.[/quote]

[gnvarnadore]

after reading this thread i have to chime in because i cant stand it anymore, are we talking theory or real world application? because in real world applications reguardless of what type of rev limiter you have things will break over time if your riding the limits. in theory i agree 100% with carkook due to the fact that no fuel means no lean condition but in the real world there will be some fuel left but at the same time the air/fuel ratio shouldnt allow it to spark but it happens sometimes. ignition cut in theory should be safe because there will be no spark but in real wrold applications there is heat which can cause the air/fuel to spark. agree to disagree is the best way to look at it as a whole. just be glad we have rev limiters of some sort so we arent just destroying engines left and right.

[jeff420]

Everythong is stuck thinking its horrible for your engine. When really it has the advantages. So if you actually understood that the fuel cutt is actually better then an ignition cutt you wouldnt want to spend your money on something that really isnt necessary.

It just turned into an argument because people no matter what think they are right even when they might have very little knowledge on the subject rather then try and understand what I am explaining and that they might actually be wrong. If you take the time and read what I have stated and what they have said, you can clearly see that every statement I make is backed by fact. But I guess some people think they are smarter then someone who was trusted to work on some of the biggest engines on marine ships in the navy, and with several years of expierence in the automotive field building engines.

everythong, lol. thats awesome.

hehe its funny you say that because you think your right and everyones wrong and you wont just drop it. this thread isnt about the effects on your engine. if you want to argue the facts on fuel cut vs ignition cut then go make your own thread. maybe it could have a cool title like fuel cut vs ignition cut or somethin like that.

[carkook]

Cause I am right. haha no but really I have no problem with being wrong. But in this case the only points that have been brought up to try and prove me wrong is that fuel cools the cylinder down, which doesnt matter because a cylinder that isnt firing is much cooler then one that is. Or that fuel cut=lean, but there is no lean condition because there is no internal combustion going on when all fuel is cut to a cylinder. So how could something be lean when there is nothing being burned or no internal combustion.

Im not only one trying to argue a point, there has been a few people going back and forth with me. I don't mean to come off as an ***hole, but I mean if your gona try and tell me im wrong at least have a valid point to make, multiple people have replied saying random stuff that doesnt even make since, then cant explain and put facts behind their statements.

[TimTurboZ]

I can't believe the lack of research! You all FAIL! I was looking into the Bee R Limiter a while back. It's used to optimize power and keep your turbo spooling. It's a misfiring system (haha think Initial D) It cuts spark in a cylinder thus making fuel go into the exhaust during the exhaust stroke. The unburned fuel is then ignited by the heat of your header or exhaust manifold. This makes your turbo stay spooling. It helps keep boost up between shifts and I imagine spool quicker (forgot the exact detail I read) It's shortens the life of yout turbo because it's more wear on the seals. I don't think it would damage your motor. For an NA car it's only benefit is cool backfiring.

[carkook]

Yeah, that makes since. I was just trying to get the point across that fuel cut does not make a LEAN condition. People just like to argue, including me haha.

[Stripes]

I can't believe the lack of research! You all FAIL! I was looking into the Bee R Limiter a while back. It's used to optimize power and keep your turbo spooling. It's a misfiring system (haha think Initial D) It cuts spark in a cylinder thus making fuel go into the exhaust during the exhaust stroke. The unburned fuel is then ignited by the heat of your header or exhaust manifold. This makes your turbo stay spooling. It helps keep boost up between shifts and I imagine spool quicker (forgot the exact detail I read) It's shortens the life of yout turbo because it's more wear on the seals. I don't think it would damage your motor. For an NA car it's only benefit is cool backfiring.

Yeah, except it doesn't cut ignition when you shift.......... so you fail. And it's not a misfiring system. Where did you get this info from? I would like to read it myself honestly.

[tctomasc]

Yeah, that makes since. I was just trying to get the point across that fuel cut does not make a LEAN condition. People just like to argue, including me haha.

Your extremely ignorant. I actually feel dummer for having read this thread. You have taken this thread in the completely wrong direction just for your own sake of getting into an argument. You fail to see anyone elses logic in their arguments and just outright refute most information thats backed up, and this ***hole that you respond to is completely wrong and you say you agree. You are full of s*** GTFO .

On a side note, I think only stand alones and other custom made ones (like bee R) will do ignition cut limiting. So i think bee r or like someone else stated a local shop would be ur best bet to try.

[carkook]

Really, then you try and find one false statement of mine. Oh wait you can't cause you cant even begin to understand whats going on. Dont get mad because you arn't the smartest one on the internet.

[heartofaskyline]

wow.... massive amounts of fail in this thread. who honestly cares

[tctomasc]

i called you full of s***, not wrong. In your context (which has nothing to do with the original content of this thread) you are right in the ideal, but what I and a good majority of the people in here have been trying to tell you, it is irrelevant to the original question. f*** you haven't even addressed anything to the op, your just in here to battle people. There really is no point.

My point is, you have nothing positive to add to this thread, just create your own if you want to ramble about something the OP said he had no interest in. He stated he already knows what it'll do to his engine and to not bother telling him, but instead you took it upon yourself to convince him that he is wrong, no matter what his position is. Go join a debate team, and you'll have a lot more fun with people your age that want to do what your doing. Honestly.

To the OP, a little google searching led to this thread, and some sites:

http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/....html

http://forums.evolutionm.net/a....html

so it seems standalones and some homemade stuff might get you what you want for cheaper (that is if you already have a standalone). But searching ignition cut rev limiter yields mostly Bee*R results back.

EDIT***: In response to below, i didnt miss anything, Like i stated I read this thread. Once again op doesn't care, he's looking for an ignition cut based rev limiter, so why give info that isn't asked for? I have no need or want to argue with you, I would just love for you to understand that what your doing doesn't benefit this thread. At least I'm still contributing to the op's actual question rather than tangents


Modified by tctomasc at 3:26 PM 3/27/2009

[carkook]

[QUOTE=carkook]

I was just trying educate people on what the fuel cutt really does. Everythong is stuck thinking its horrible for your engine. When really it has the advantages. So if you actually understood that the fuel cutt is actually better then an ignition cutt you wouldnt want to spend your money on something that really isnt necessary. QUOTE]

Did you miss this part, and really your only doing the same thing