battery recomendations

[kapower240]

Im currently running around 1500w sound system in my 92 300z NA and seems to drain the hell out of my battery since i could hear the alternator wine after 10 min of loud music. Im guessing I should replace my battery since its old anyway but i would like to know if you guys have any recommendation of what kind of battery to run with this type of setup?

[Notorious170]

the usual concensus is the optima yellow top. im running the stinger sp1000. i would also suggest upgrading to a high output alternator for extra measure.

[EW]

Red top has a better warranty and is designed as a "starting" battery. Have the alternator checked at idle and load tested. See if it is over 13V @ idle and closer to 14.4V at higher rpm or under load. Underdrive pullies=low voltage. That's where I would start.

[joe603]

I wouldn't bother with the red top...jump to the Yellow top for better performance. You might also want to install a 1F cap to help the car handle the load. Upgrading the alternator is also a good idea if you plan on adding more amps.

[EW]

I wouldn't bother with the red top...jump to the Yellow top for better performance. You might also want to install a 1F cap to help the car handle the load. Upgrading the alternator is also a good idea if you plan on adding more amps.

What is the "better performance" of the yellow top?

[fueler]

run a battery out of a jet ski, it weighs a lot less and still starts your car,

[joe603]

The red top has 800 cold cranking amps..the yellow is 1000+. Much more conducive to running a stereo system with large power amps.

Running a motorcycle batt would be the worst thing in the world! They are designed to work with a very small engine, to say nothing of ancillary equipment. The shear power load of the sub amp could cause damage to the battery.

Now if the car was set-up for racing, then that would be a different story...

[EW]

Yellow top is only going to help if you're running the system while the engine is not running (deep cycle). A good alternator and only operating the system while the engine is running is the best way to go.

[PoorManQ45]

Upgrade the alternator. That's it.

A battery is only good for when the car is off

[joe603]

yes and no...A battery is important to buffer the power draw from the amps. An alternator recharges the battery, not provide power for electrical equipment. Both should be upgraded for a system with heavy demands.

[PoorManQ45]

Incorrect.

A battery is ONLY used as a "buffer" when the output of the alternator is not sufficient to deliver the full power required by the amps.

Lets say you have a 100amp stock alternator. If you system draws 150amps you're going to draw from the battery on bass notes(basically all the time if your system can draw 150amps anyways. LOL).

Now if you have an HO alternator that puts out 200amps and a 150 amp system all power is taken from the alternator.

The battery, in a properly designed system, should ONLY be used when the car is off.

[joe603]

yes, but we're talking about high current draw amps...they will almost always go over the alternator's rating, thus using the battery to supplement the load (usually on bass notes as you mentioned). So, unless the original poster has a very HO alt, or multiple alternators in his car, the battery will need to be able to provide the current in peak demand instances.

The best advice is to upgrade the battery first, then the alternator if the power needs are still not met.

For the wine sound, make sure you have good grounds for your amps and head deck (-) power.

[TheKon]

I'm personally not a huge fan of optima batteries.....they're really expensive.....everyone has one.....and there are many choices out there that are more cost effective. I have an SVR High Output battery in my impala and I'm pullin about 1400 watts RMS and I love that thing. If you're intersted in an SVR lemme know...my shop carries them. And yeah I agree with Joe...the battery is used as a buffer. If you ever go to a car show. Check out under the hood on SPL cars. They all have upgraded batteries...(or atleast they should). HO Alts are very very expensive too. Typically they run $500+ for a half-way decent one. A battery and a cap is a really good place to start. General rule of thumb is 1 farad per 1000 watts...but I have a 5 farad. It's always better to have too much than not enough.

[PoorManQ45]

If you don't upgrade your alternator then yes, a better battery will help, a little.

The problem is that you still don't have something to charge the battery! Lets say you're already exceeding the alternator output by 50amps.

You draw this from the battery. The problem is that there is nothing to recharge the battery! The alternator would normally do this, but you're already using all of its output.

Also, for most cars if you search you can get a 150~200amp alternator for ~$150~$300.

I checked for my Buick. I can get a 175amp alternator for $179.

Compare that to the cost of a Yellow top(~$150 IIRC). Not too expensive for the alternator now is it

A better battery will be alright, but to completely eliminate the possibility of any problem/failure you MUST upgrade the alternator.

-brien

[joe603]

Your Buick is over 15 years old!! Of course its cheap. I can't even find one for my G35...

And it's hard to tell the constant draw off the system without measuring it constantly; most of the time it's probably fine. (only peaking over the current producing capability of the alternator for bass hits). Today's car alternators are in that range stock...80-120amps.

[PoorManQ45]

You're correct about the current constantly changing.

I'd want to shoot for atleast 75% of the total(add up all the fuse ratings) power consumption being covered by the alternator.

So if your setup draws 150amps I'd want atleast a ~200amp alternator.

How did I come up with a number larger then the current draw if I recommended only 75% you ask?

Well you have to remember that there are other parts of the electrical system too! A/C blower, lights, etc... This takes up ~75~85% of the stock alternator's output.

Make sense?

So if you had a 100amp stock alternator you'd be using ~70~80amps with everything on. That only leaves 20~30amps of headroom.

With a 150amp system, running at 1/2 capacity lets say, you're exceeding the stock systems capabilities by ~45~55amps.

I'll look later for an alternator for the G35.

[Notorious170]

i gotta say, i didnt expect this discussion to get so detailed. thought it was gonna be a 3-5 response post.

good points made by all.

[PoorManQ45]

i gotta say, i didnt expect this discussion to get so detailed. thought it was gonna be a 3-5 response post.

good points made by all.

You sound like the teacher giving a ribbon to the last place kid in a race.

"You tried your best. That's all that counts. You're a winner."

[PoorManQ45]

THusa far I've found that a Nissan quest alternator puts out 130amps vs. the G35 and 350z's output of 110amps.

ANyone know if the alternator placement is the same? I know we're talking FWD vs RWD here so I'm not sure.

Email Mralternator.com . They should be able to give you a reasonable quote.

Or check around locally for alternator and Starter companies. They'll rebuild your alternator to a higher output for ~$150~$200 usually

[joe603]

Ya, I've heard of the quest option, but I've never actually seen it installed on a G35...Not sure if its worth the extra 20amps. I wish they made a 160-200amp model...

Thanks for the info!

[PoorManQ45]

Check your local alternator/generator places.

Ask them if they rebuild alternators to a higher capacity. You will find one that can do it.

[homeslicej2]

The red top has 800 cold cranking amps..the yellow is 1000+. Much more conducive to running a stereo system with large power amps....

umm...I checked Optima's website. Every redtop has either 720 or 800 CCA. Every yellowtop has 500, 650, or 750 CCA (0 degrees Fahrenheit) and the highest cranking amps (@32 degrees Fahrenheit) of the yellowtops were two models at 870 amps, every redtop has either 910 or 1000 cranking amps. So, I'd like to know where you got your info from.

Also, a battery and capacitor(s) are merely band-aids. The more power you can generate, the better. A high-amp alternator is the best choice of the three if funds allow. I have a redtop, a 1.2 farad stinger capacitor (good for 600-1200 watts RMS. Some manufactures recommend 1 farad for every 1000w others say 1 farad for every 500w RMS, hence the range) with voltage display, 4-gauge stinger wire, complete stinger distribution, wiring, battery terminals, etc. all stinger, and a Sun Auto hyper ground syste. I get about 13.3-13.8v at the cap w/volume at full blast w/only ~450 watts RMS (rated at 13.8v) and a maximum potential amp load of 60 amps from both amplifiers. A high-amp alternator would bring that voltage up a lot and everything would run smoother.

I have also been told by two car audio shops that if you are running the battery in the engine bay, go with a redtop. Apparently the yellowtop doesn't cope with the heat too well. At both shops the redtop was priced cheaper too so I don't think they were pulling my chain.

[audtatious]

If you are dimming lights, adding a bigger battery will simply add more strain on the alternator since the system will further drain the battery (larger capacity) without the alternator playing "catchup" soon enough. The proper solution is an alternator with enough amps to power the system. Adding a dedicated battery to the amps with an isolator would help ensure you never drain the cranking battery as well (but alone won't stop lights from dimming).

[PoorManQ45]

I already tried telling them that.

They just argue. LOL

[audtatious]

Yeah. This arguement happens on every forum with an audio section.

[homeslicej2]

I agree with you two. I purchased a redtop bc my old battery died and bc it had more cranking amps, my car cranks easier, I bought the cap for power storage and it's ability to clean up the signal a little and bc it came with my mulit-amp wiring kit from stinger, I was going for an alternator soon (the quest upgrade), but my rebuilt KA decided to spin a bearing. Any suggestions on a high-amp alt for an SR other than a rebuild to higher capacity (I've been told that shortens an alt's life)?

[joe603]

All I know is that my lights were dimming when the bass hit hard with a stock battery and no Cap. I installed the recommended yellow top Optima, and a 1F cap...lights no longer dim with even harder hitting bass. I also had a voltmeter installed, and the voltage doesn't dip down past 14v under heavy load (lights, stereo).

In regards to to differences between yellow and red top batts...

From the optima web site:http://www.optimabatteries.com....html The OPTIMA YellowTop

Demand more from your vehicle? Then get more from your battery. OPTIMA YellowTop batteries are made for the extremes. If you have an extreme vehicle, you expect high performance. Whether your vehicle is made to take the abuse of off-road driving or cranking out decibels, you need more from your battery. OPTIMA batteries with patented SPIRALCELL® Technology deliver that performance. The deep cycle characteristic of this technology coupled with its extreme resistance to vibration provides performance vehicles with the repetitive power they need in a spill-proof package.

If your vehicle has a lot of accessories like running lights, high-performance stereo/AV system, winches, or hydraulics, your vehicle demands more from its battery. OPTIMA YellowTOP batteries provide the extra performance and deep cycling capability that your vehicle demands.

[homeslicej2]

First off. I never disagreed with you that the yellowtop is better for audio applications. I said that the redtop (the one they label as a starting battery) has more CCA and cranking amps.These are the redtops (look to the side, it says "starter-technical specs". It also has a redtop and red design at the top of the page): http://www.optimabatteries.com....html

These are the yellowtops (look to the side, it says "deep cycle-technical specs. It also has a yellowtop and yellow design at the top of the page): http://www.optimabatteries.com....html

I have been told however that the yellowtop needs to go somewhere other than the engine bay. That doesn't mean everyone agrees that it has to/should be done, but on this Optima homepage

http://www.optimabatteries.com....html

for auto batteries they have pics of the the redtop in the engine bay and 4 yellowtops in the trunk of some car, so I don't know. Call them up and see what they say about it. Secondly, your lights may not dim anymore and your voltage may run fine, but not everyone's will with a battery and cap. Some will have to upgrade the alt. It is what provides the power for everything electrical in the car so if you can generate more power, then when you need it, more power will be there. The alt is also what recharges you battery, and your battery supplies juice to the cap (hence why you have to use a charging bulb so it doesn't spark from energy rushing in from the battery when you hook it up), so it all goes back to the alternator. The more amps it can provide the easier it is for your system (and all electrical components) to work. Capacitors and batteries are just storage devices. They do not make produce energy, they store it. Where does that energy come from? The alternator. What happens when you have more storage capacity to fill up with the same amount of energy produced? I think Poorman already said it, you work the alt harder. End of story, I'm not arguing about this anymore.

[EW]

I'm personally not a huge fan of optima batteries.....they're really expensive.....everyone has one.....and there are many choices out there that are more cost effective. I have an SVR High Output battery in my impala and I'm pullin about 1400 watts RMS and I love that thing. If you're intersted in an SVR lemme know...my shop carries them. And yeah I agree with Joe...the battery is used as a buffer. If you ever go to a car show. Check out under the hood on SPL cars. They all have upgraded batteries...(or atleast they should). HO Alts are very very expensive too. Typically they run $500+ for a half-way decent one. A battery and a cap is a really good place to start. General rule of thumb is 1 farad per 1000 watts...but I have a 5 farad. It's always better to have too much than not enough.

I have had very poor results with SVR batteries. They only have a 1 year warranty and don't last much more than that. they are hard to get warranted as well since they are not widely available. Interstate Battery distributes the Optima so I can get one anywhere. Who cares if people have the same battery as you? Great logic. Caps are pointless. A high output alternator, upgraded wiring, and good battery/batteries is the way to go.

[audtatious]

All I know is that my lights were dimming when the bass hit hard with a stock battery and no Cap. I installed the recommended yellow top Optima, and a 1F cap...lights no longer dim with even harder hitting bass. I also had a voltmeter installed, and the voltage doesn't dip down past 14v under heavy load (lights, stereo).

Don't get me wrong, caps can help and they discharge faster than pulling power from the battery. I had 4 1fd caps in my last car because I could dim the lights going down the highway at 80mph. Even then I would still deep-cycle my battery relatively easy. I learned the hard way that upgrading to a 1000cca "regular" car battery did not help (I went through 5 of those due to deep-cycling) and took the initiative to determine the appropriate direction for a resolution (upgrading the alternator).

If you only crank it every once in a while, it is relatively easy for a car to charge the battery back up. If you constantly drive around with it cranked up and have an undersized alternator, you will experience a lot of issues with it.