Barack and Hillary top the list.

[R/T Hemi]

Listening to all the news items floating in the current pool of journalistic sludge, one would think that Barack and Hillary were something akin to toy stealing grinches. Yet they are, once again, the most respected man and woman in the US of A. I'm wondering if the American people aren't as upset by what he's accomplished as the pundits would like us to believe?

President Barack Obama is Americans' Most Admired Man of 2010, substantially ahead of the former presidents, iconic religious leaders, and others who fill out the top 10 list. Obama first became Americans' Most Admired Man in 2008, shortly after his election as the nation's 44th president, and has held the title since then.

Clinton has dominated the Most Admired Woman title for most of the past two decades, earning 15 No. 1 rankings since her first appearance on the list in 1992. She joins Eleanor Roosevelt and Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis as first ladies whose strong popularity has extended well beyond her husband's presidency, although, given Clinton's post-White House political career, perhaps for different reasons.

I think it's pretty obvious Hillary is here to stay. She gives back what women lost when Sarah P. and Meg W. entered politics. Credibility.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145394/barac ... mired.aspx

[96Qowner]

Hillary impressed me during the 2008 primaries, proving herself to be more than just Bill's annoying wife, a sleazy Rose Law firm attorney and carpet-bagging New York Senator. She's tough. She also knows when to shut up and adjust her rhetoric to the realities of the electorate, something Obama still can't bring himself to do.

If the primaries weren't controlled by the extreme wings of the Parties, she could challenge Obama in 2012 and probably win the nomination.

Barry, on the other hand is only what he is, not what he claimed to be - no experience, no juice, no wisdom, no leadership. Most of us understand why his popularity is so "high", but we musn't say so - not politically correct, doncha know.

[telcoman]

Listening to all the news items floating in the current pool of journalistic sludge, one would think that Barack and Hillary were something akin to toy stealing grinches. Yet they are, once again, the most respected man and woman in the US of A. I'm wondering if the American people aren't as upset by what he's accomplished as the pundits would like us to believe?

President Barack Obama is Americans' Most Admired Man of 2010, substantially ahead of the former presidents, iconic religious leaders, and others who fill out the top 10 list. Obama first became Americans' Most Admired Man in 2008, shortly after his election as the nation's 44th president, and has held the title since then.

Clinton has dominated the Most Admired Woman title for most of the past two decades, earning 15 No. 1 rankings since her first appearance on the list in 1992. She joins Eleanor Roosevelt and Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis as first ladies whose strong popularity has extended well beyond her husband's presidency, although, given Clinton's post-White House political career, perhaps for different reasons.

I think it's pretty obvious Hillary is here to stay. She gives back what women lost when Sarah P. and Meg W. entered politics. Credibility.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/145394/barac ... mired.aspx

Rubbing and looking into my crystal ball I see Hillary as Barack Obama's running mate in 2012. She will be the democratic nominee in 2016 with a possible Bill Clinton as her running mate. The Dems will remain in power as the party of no continues to piss off the majority of Americans.

Telcoman

[R/T Hemi]

Interesting theory Telcoman. I could see Hillary stepping up in 2016. She has the name, the experience and the momentum from a life in politics. I think America could accept a woman president and I think she'd be a good candidate for the first one.

I sense that this board is more conservative than mid-ground. I haven't been here very long, but I wonder, how was the atmosphere here when GWB was in power. Were there as many threads criticizing all the things GWB did as there are criticizing Obama?

Anyone?

[audtatious]

Rubbing and looking into my crystal ball I see Hillary as Barack Obama's running mate in 2012. She will be the democratic nominee in 2016 with a possible Bill Clinton as her running mate. The Dems will remain in power as the party of no continues to piss off the majority of Americans.

Telcoman

Howie, weren't you one of those who claimed 2008 was the end of the GOP and that the Dem party would rule both the House and Senate for decades?

Guess it's a good thing you are old as being in the party of "spend more" will have very little impact to your future.

[audtatious]

Interesting theory Telcoman. I could see Hillary stepping up in 2016. She has the name, the experience and the momentum from a life in politics. I think America could accept a woman president and I think she'd be a good candidate for the first one.

I sense that this board is more conservative than mid-ground. I haven't been here very long, but I wonder, how was the atmosphere here when GWB was in power. Were there as many threads criticizing all the things GWB did as there are criticizing Obama?

Anyone?

I probably would have voted for Hillary. Instead I was stuck with Obama or the old RINO. Hillary has been doing OK keeping her head down although there have been a few issues where she has opened her mouth and inserted foot. Much less than Obama.

Guess it depends on what you consider "mid-ground".

This forum was created a bit before the 2008 election so by then everything was anti-Bush rhetoric on the left.

[AZhitman]

Hillary impressed me during the 2008 primaries, proving herself to be more than just Bill's annoying wife, a sleazy Rose Law firm attorney and carpet-bagging New York Senator. She's tough. She also knows when to shut up and adjust her rhetoric to the realities of the electorate, something Obama still can't bring himself to do.

If the primaries weren't controlled by the extreme wings of the Parties, she could challenge Obama in 2012 and probably win the nomination.

Barry, on the other hand is only what he is, not what he claimed to be - no experience, no juice, no wisdom, no leadership. Most of us understand why his popularity is so "high", but we musn't say so - not politically correct, doncha know.

Can't say it much better than this.

Of course, this is all taken with a heaping spoonful of disgusted cynicism with ALL current politicians... No integrity. I doubt ANY of them would turn their back on traditional politics to stand up for (or oppose) something they personally feel strongly about.

[telcoman]

Rubbing and looking into my crystal ball I see Hillary as Barack Obama's running mate in 2012. She will be the democratic nominee in 2016 with a possible Bill Clinton as her running mate. The Dems will remain in power as the party of no continues to piss off the majority of Americans.

Telcoman

Howie, weren't you one of those who claimed 2008 was the end of the GOP and that the Dem party would rule both the House and Senate for decades?

Guess it's a good thing you are old as being in the party of "spend more" will have very little impact to your future.

The end of the GOP is just around the corner. Unfortunately there are still people that cannot discern the difference between a 24/7 infomercial for the GOP on Fox and real news.
As for spending more Obama had to cave in to the GOP for tax cuts to the rich adding another trillion dollars to the deficit.
Where is the GOP going to cut spending?
They have no answers.
They have no goal to govern
Their only goal is to defeat Obama and they are going to lose.
The majority of the American people no longer buy their BS
I'll be doing the happy dance again in November 2012 when the dems not only retain the presidency but control both houses.
I can thank the tea party for allowing the GOP to lose control of the senate

Telcoman

[audtatious]

The end of the GOP is just around the corner. Unfortunately there are still people that cannot discern the difference between a 24/7 infomercial for the GOP on Fox and real news.

They go hand in hand with those who visit huffpo and msnbc

As for spending more Obama had to cave in to the GOP for tax cuts to the rich adding another trillion dollars to the deficit.

What does gathering more taxes have to do with out of control spending other than the Dems not curbing spending while wanting to take more of people's money away to try and cover some of the costs?

Where is the GOP going to cut spending?

Hopefully entitlement spending, Social Security, foreign policy

They have no answers.

They do, you just choose to never listen. I at least listen to Dems but feel they are on the wrong track.

They have no goal to govern

You mean they do not have as much socialistic drive to mandate their rules over the population? I would hope that is the case. Unlike you I don't appreciate the Gov trying to parent me.

Their only goal is to defeat Obama and they are going to lose.

Yep, just like they lost all those seats this past year......

The majority of the American people no longer buy their BS

See above. Maybe you should get your head out of the sand and sniff the air more often?

I'll be doing the happy dance again in November 2012 when the dems not only retain the presidency but control both houses.

It's possible if the GOP does not work hard to control spending

I can thank the tea party for allowing the GOP to lose control of the senate

Uhm....Didn't your team have a super majority? Do they have one now? No? Doesn't that mean your team lost seats?

[AZhitman]

Howie's just proof that the DNC's goal of turning their voters into mindless, all-believing automatons actually works.

In fact, if their plan was a tech gadget, he'd be an "early adopter".

The "majority" is the reason the Dems lost seats. Didn't your very own state just lose its Libby stranglehold on the governorship? Whoops.

[audtatious]

The "majority" is the reason the Dems lost seats. Didn't your very own state just lose its Libby stranglehold on the governorship? Whoops.

Not sure how that works in his mind. Wasn't the Tea Party and everyone hates the GOP. Must have been computer error or tampering? We know Dems would not vote for Republicans <gasp>

[R/T Hemi]

Howie's just proof that the DNC's goal of turning their voters into mindless, all-believing automatons actually works.

In fact, if their plan was a tech gadget, he'd be an "early adopter".

The "majority" is the reason the Dems lost seats. Didn't your very own state just lose its Libby stranglehold on the governorship? Whoops.

Can I inquire into the necessity of the Ad hominem attacks? I see a some valid points of discussion in Telcoman's post that might make for interesting debate here. The problem is that once these attacks starts, the whole discussion sort of goes to hell.

However, I'll temper my criticism of your comments as you appear to be one of the managers here with all the high cards.

I do see Telcoman's point. Where are the answers? Do we really care which side develops a means to recover from 8+ years of economic problems?

[audtatious]

Telco throws out rhetoric and talking points into threads but won't debate them. See, he's above all of us cuz he's not in fly-over land.

Regardless, there are no easy answers and politicians on neither side will make hard decisions. We are destined to fail.

[AZhitman]

Absolutely - No need to tread lightly in here, and more importantly, my comments are no less open for critique than anyone else's.

Howie (telcoman) and I (us... we?) go way back. I suppose the ad hominem stems from his history of parroting bumper-sticker-y lefty talking points, rather than engaging in meaningful and well-thought-out discourse.

We can get pretty in-depth in here, and he's certainly not alone in his leanings: IBCoupe and heliochrome both do a remarkable job of waving the lefty banner (albeit in a much more intellectually stimulating manner, rife with independent-thought).

He's harmless, and you're absolutely right, in that neither "side" is likely to present a useful solution... they all have their own, rather than our, best interests at heart.

However, in re: your last para, that wasn't his "point". That was yours.

Glad you're here.

Despite the seemingly vitriolic atmosphere in here, we all actually do like each other (scratch that - I can't speak for anyone else.... *I* like these guys, even though I often disagree with them wholeheartedly).

[heliochrome85]

also, its worth noting that the vast majority of us here are crotchety as F@#$, that being said, there are only a few that i wouldnt kill to knock back a diet soda with. and they know who they are. Hemi, I hope you stay. there is much need for reasonable people (read: liberals).



also, i have things to say about this thread, and having howie as a mouth piece for the democratic party. i dont think they need to be said.



Lastly, the 2010 elections were nothing more than a correction. and 2012 will be one too. but in 2012 it will be to throw out the tea partiers who got elected for no reason other than they supported the troops and loved the constitution. 2010 was expected, since the democrats won a disproportionately large number of seats in 2008 thanks to Obama. to try to spin 2010 as this grand rejection of Obama is foolish. the man still has ridiculously high job approval rate for a socialist Kenyan sekret muslim antichrist.




absolutely lastly, for those who keep crying about socialism, they are more than welcome to turn in their social security cards, and their medicaire/medicaid paid for motorized scooters. im being dead serious. the reality is that people are against socialism, just as long as that position doesnt make them pay for their medical equipment, treatments.

[telcoman]

Didn't your very own state just lose its Libby stranglehold on the governorship? Whoops.

If you are referring to our absent governor he will be rewarded the same way John Lindsey a former mayor of New York was rewarded. He'll be history in the next election.
Nice of our republican governor to vacation in Florida in one of the worst New Jersey blizzards in the last forty years. The Lt Governor was out of state also.
So no one was in charge and four days after the snow stopped there were still unplowed roads.
This just goes to prove that most republicans are not fit to govern.
Look at the mess GWB left us in.
Give Obama another 6 years and another 8 years for Hillary and we should be back to prosperity.
Wave goodby to the tea party
They are a party of know nothings.

Telcoman

[audtatious]

Oh come now Howie, why do you bother? None of us are as informed as you and we will always be wrong.

[R/T Hemi]

absolutely lastly, for those who keep crying about socialism, they are more than welcome to turn in their social security cards, and their medicaire/medicaid paid for motorized scooters. im being dead serious. the reality is that people are against socialism, just as long as that position doesnt make them pay for their medical equipment, treatments.

Absolutely. Once a man gets near retirement age, he becomes a socialist. Happens every time to everyone. Well said.

@ Telcoman
I know that I was better off under the Clinton admin than I was under GWB. I'm not sure some of this isn't a cyclic thing as opposed to totally incompetent leadership. I'd like to forget the administration between Clinton and Obama ever existed.

I've got my eye on Donald Trump for 2012. Not because I believe in much of what he's done, but I loved his comments about how he would deal with the Chinese balance of trade issue and his failure to roll over regarding their holding us hostage with their banking policies. Trump has balls. I'm hoping a little of his fortitude towards China rubs off on Obama because I doubt the Reps or the TP'ers have a real chance against him in 2012, and the China balance of trade issue need to be addressed sooner than later. That's an issue that needs far more attention than it's getting.

[audtatious]

Do you feel things would be better today should Gore or Kerry had won?

[AZhitman]

Nice of our republican governor to vacation in Florida in one of the worst New Jersey blizzards in the last forty years. The Lt Governor was out of state also.

Your POTUS is in Hawaii. Why aren't you whining about him?

Besides, George Bush controls the weather, according to you.

Why in God's name you (and the nitwits in N'awlins) are so intent on blaming a politician because it snows / rains / hails is beyond me.

Your roads are unplowed because of the fat, drunk, slovenly, lazy douchebag union members in your armpit state.

Get a snow shovel and quit your crying.

[AZhitman]

Well said.

I told ya so. Heliochrome (or, as I like to call him, "The Angry Muslin Who Was Rejected for Jihad But Will Make A Damn Fine Doctor") is a worthy foil in these political discussions.

[heliochrome85]

the only thing ive rejected lately, was the fat chick at the hookah bar tonight, who wanted to chat. lets not get too hasty greg. you never know, i may just go boom at any time. like a woman, i lay waiting. always waiting. always watching.

[AZhitman]

you never know, i may just go boom at any time.

[audtatious]

Just watched his Christmas special.... lol

[heliochrome85]

you never know, i may just go boom at any time.

given that i just pissed on a car on the walk back, i guess i did have a bit too much falafel. or was it the virgin cosmos? who knows really?


EDIT:

it was a toyota.

[R/T Hemi]

Do you feel things would be better today should Gore or Kerry had won?

Hehehe...They did didn't they? Wait, that's old news.

Actually, I blame GWB because someone has to take the blame. I'll let him apportion it accordingly. Shall I start with the WMDs, then the trillions that followed for that mistake? Hindsight? Probably so. I suppose it's not fair to go there yet you asked. GWB started as a snowball of mismanagement then rolling down a slippery slope that lead directly to my personal nest egg, which, by the time if was finished rolling, turned my egg into something more akin to a seed, a small seed at that. A seed that probably couldn't sprout in the fertile BS we now call congress.

Would we be better off? I have problems with Kerry. I read "Unfit for Command" and questioned many things about him, but that's not your question. Your question is whether we'd be better off. My answer is, in hindsight, I believe so. I can't see how it could possibly be any worse. The entire 9/11 event was mishandled, is being mishandled and looks for the record, like it will be mishandled in the future. Why, one reason. I'm not real fond of presenting my body to some TSA goon who is now empowered to detain and fine me if I decide not to let them molest me so I can board an airliner. If I choose not to participate and back out, I'm subject to, as I said, detention and a severe fine, for what, not letting them get to 3rd base with me? That's what I get for living in a nation where our security, like our generals, train for the last attack. We had one flammable fluid event, we get the 3-1-1 rule. We had one shoe b0mber, we now get to take off our shoes and tiptoe barefoot through the lineup. We had one underwear b0mber, now we get p0rn scans and/or groped. And our representatives allow this. I wonder what we'll get when someone decides to smuggle a little c4 in their rectum aboard an airliner. Stirrups for the ladies and bend over and spread 'em for the guys?

Yeah. I'd rather have seen Kerry and Gore. The more I think about it.....

Oh, and thanks for asking.

[audtatious]

"someONE has to be blamed", that's fine if that's what you want to do. I believe it is more than just one person to blame and more than one Administration. IF history started with GWB then I would agree that he is the one to blame, it doesn't. History has the USS Cole, Embassy bombings, first WTC bombing, etc, all within the time frame of the prior Administration....and plenty of history prior to that. There were a lot of blind eyes turned during the prior Administrations, lots of history which lead up to the attack that was just 9 months into GWB's Presidency.

As far as WMD, hindsight surely is 20/20. Honestly, I was tired of Saddam's crap while Clinton was in office and I hoped he would go blast his azz. We should have rolled through Iraq after pushing them out of Kuwait and taken him out of the picture then. Who knows, we may have been worse off afterward but what we did obviously was not right. Again, 20/20 hindsight....or maybe we did do the right thing as pushing through may have caused worse issues? We don't know unless someone can view a parallel universe.

I agree with you about TSA and such. They have taken things way too far and it is very revealing about the liberal side of GWB. I didn't expect it to be shrunk during the Dem's super majority either. It's a miracle it didn't become 2x as restrictive.

[telcoman]

Do you feel things would be better today should Gore or Kerry had won?

They certainly would be!

Had there been a recount of all the votes in Florida Gore would have won the election.
Had that happened there is a strong possibility that 9/11 would never have happened.
Bad decisions by the supreme court have profound results.
We'll never know.
What we do know is 8 years of GWB was a disaster for this country with two unpaid for wars, huge deficits, huge job losses, a financial meltdown, and very close to another great depression.
Two years of Obama resulted in a turn around with a very slow recovery.
At least my 401k is up 15% this year compared to the loss of 40% during the last year of Bush.

Telcoman

[audtatious]

Wow...you are so delusional to think OBL would have called off the attack with Gore in office. He sure didn't stop the attacks during Clinton's time did he?

You are right. GWB caused all problems we have today. The glorious Dem party had nothing to do with it. History started when Bush took the oath. Keep believing that, the Dem party needs people like you.

[telcoman]

Wow...you are so delusional to think OBL would have called off the attack with Gore in office. He sure didn't stop the attacks during Clinton's time did he?

You are right. GWB caused all problems we have today. The glorious Dem party had nothing to do with it. History started when Bush took the oath. Keep believing that, the Dem party needs people like you.

Had Bush bothered to read the daily briefings prior to 9/11 he could have taken action and stepped up airport security.
Also fed us bulls#it regarding Iraq.
Don'i get me started on that a$$