Backup mirror modification

[TDot]

I was just thinking, I hate reaching for that tiny switch every time I backup to switch between left and right mirror. I'm wondering if I could tie that switch into the turn signal instead. I'm probably not going to take this on until spring, but any thoughts from anybody about the feasibility or exactly how or which wires they'd tap SPECIFICALLY.

Lets work together and map this out if you're interested. I'm hoping to keep any splicing, tapping, and wiring localized to hopefully right around the steering wheel...but I haven't opened up the fsm to look this up yet so who knows.

[Six_Legs]

That would be too cool if you worked that out! Great idea.

I keep my passenger side mirror set to point down when i back up, mostly to prevent any curb shots. On the occasions that I needed to see more than the ground it would be nice to do it quickly without trying to find that tiny button.

[svard75]

What were you thinking the mirror do when you engage the turn signal? Just go down? Why?

[TDot]

mostly to prevent any curb shots.

Exactly. I have my memory set to show all the way down and in so I can see my rims to curb. I don't want curb rash and I don't want tickets. But besides that, like Six-Legs said, I don't want to search for that switch every time for left and right...especially at night. So yes the side would go down according to which signal is engaged when in reverse.

[The00Dustin]

I don't know if I ever posted about it, but I found the diagram for the MFS because I wanted to swap the positions of OFF and AUTO for the headlights because I don't believe it should be necessary to switch through AUTO on the way to the parking lights and on positions. The MFS has a number of contacts and they don't each have one function. It's more like binary/bits where what functions are active depends on which contacts are active, but no contact correlates to any single specific function, so even if it were possible to change what contact went where in the MFS or which wire went to which contact in the steering column, getting desired results wouldn't be as simple as switching a couple wires even if it were possible.

That having been said, I finally found the modules I saw once before that will probably work for what you want. They aren't what I thought they were, but KP Technologies has them listed under Universal Infiniti Universial (when using their vehicle search, year and model are universal). Specifically:

ITEM#MT30-S
This module simplifies driving in reverse and parallel parking by automatically lowering the side mirror when the vehicle is in reverse. With the mirror tilted down it is possible to see curbs and debris before striking them! Standard version includes control for one mirror.

ITEM#MT30-D is two of those, which might be good if you want to customize how both mirrors behave (timing wise), but presumably you could use one in one door and leave the switch pointed toward the other door. It is also possible they wouldn't be a viable option since our cars already have such functionality, but it is one possible way another user who claimed both mirrors went down could have had it happening.

[svard75]

mostly to prevent any curb shots.

Exactly. I have my memory set to show all the way down and in so I can see my rims to curb. I don't want curb rash and I don't want tickets. But besides that, like Six-Legs said, I don't want to search for that switch every time for left and right...especially at night. So yes the side would go down according to which signal is engaged when in reverse.

You guys signal when going in reverse?

[Ilya]

You guys signal when going in reverse?

He's saying he would, not that he does.

[veery]

You guys signal when going in reverse?

He's saying he would, not that he does.

I learned to drive in NYS, and was taught not to use the signal for parallel parking (MANY years ago). The current driver's manual for NYS says to use your signal when parking.

[pegasus]

Mine actually malfunctioned for several days once, and both mirrors pointed down while in reverse. That was sweet...

[cruzad3r]

Mine actually malfunctioned for several days once, and both mirrors pointed down while in reverse. That was sweet...

Wait ... what... really??? nice

[pegasus]

Mine actually malfunctioned for several days once, and both mirrors pointed down while in reverse. That was sweet...

Wait ... what... really??? nice

Yea, and the selector was actually in the middle neutral position. That was nice, it should be like that full time.

[svard75]

But guys if you're reversing to use the side mirrors aren't you simply looking at one mirror or another for parallel parking and the rear camera for backwards parking? What would you benefit with both going down?

[TDot]

@The00Dustin, true about the circuit board, but remember at the end of the day, that switch is simply a remote to communicate. The information has to leave it via a harness to communicate the proper information to the end device. All that needs to happen is to find the specific wire/terminal to jack and then feed it the right voltage that the end device is expecting (easier said than done right lol).

@svard75, I think the main reason people want both mirrors to go down is so they don't have to constantly lean forward and fiddle with that micro switch (especially at night) based on which side of the street they are parking on. And as far as me, I don't use the signal to parallel park, but it would be easier to use my finger and flip the turn signal to park instead of reaching for that micro switch. Plus it would be courteous to drivers waiting behind me.

I'm starting with GW fsm on pg 89, and LT fsm pg 179. From initial readings on pg 89 it seems that I would just have to tap into the harness output terminal of 2 and 3 of the door mirror remote control switch (dmr) and have the left turn signal send 5V to terminal 2 wire and the right turn signal send 5V to terminal 3 wire upon activation of each. For now I don't see how exactly I can get that directly from the turn signal switch (I'll keep looking), so at worst case I would take voltage from the side marker wires and put a voltage regulator on it as long as it's not a pulsating voltage. If it is a pulsating voltage I'd need to keep looking. What I'm trying to figure out is if the turn signal is based on terminal 2/3 on LT pg 187 or terminal 45/46 on LT pg 188. If it's based on the first it should be easier to jack into the signal and feed that into a voltage regulator to step it up to 5V for the mirror switch output.

The biggest issue I see with all of this...besides screwing everything up lol...is how this may affect programming the mirrors because in some instances the start button needs to be at the on or ACC position to program. Off the top of my head I don't know how the signal ligt functions in those positions to supply the voltage.

[TDot]

Correction,
1/ the terminal switches are 2 and 18 from the mirror remote.
2/ I believe it has to be 0V in order to activate each mirror and 5V to keep it stationary. Can someone confirm I'm Reading that right on GW fsm pg 93.
3/ also I figured how to make sure I keep it programmable the stock way. Just splice into the two wires with a wire tap instead of bypassing them. Then just keep the switch neutral during normal operations while I use the turn signal, and use the switch during programming and leave the turn signal alone.

[The00Dustin]

Yes, the information has to travel through the system, but I'm pretty sure it is traveling in digital form on the same wire as other signals, preventing you from tapping into it. The MFS switch has like 6 contacts for like 12 functions some of which can be on at the same time. It is possible that there is a separate signal to a separate module (like a digital version of the component that made the bulbs blink in old cars), but it wouldn't be absolutely necessary as the turn signals could be connected directly to an output contact built into the digital network's hardware that turns on and off to flash the bulbs. I wish you the best of luck. That having been said, RE: programming, I don't see why you would have to disable the rocker switch, and if you didn't, you could still program without the turn signal so long as your hack doesn't make the system think the rocker switch is leaning when the signal isn't on.

[The00Dustin]

Correction,
1/ the terminal switches are 2 and 18 from the mirror remote.
2/ I believe it has to be 0V in order to activate each mirror and 5V to keep it stationary. Can someone confirm I'm Reading that right on GW fsm pg 93.
3/ also I figured how to make sure I keep it programmable the stock way. Just splice into the two wires with a wire tap instead of bypassing them. Then just keep the switch neutral during normal operations while I use the turn signal, and use the switch during programming and leave the turn signal alone.

Clearly I was too slow on programming. Unfortunately, I can't help you on reading the FSM, but see BCS-3 and BCS-4 for more clarity regarding my previous posts.

[The00Dustin]

I looked anyway, and GW-93 is Rear Window and Door Mirror defogger for me. We have different model year cars, so disregard my suggestion that you look at BCS-3 and BCS-4. I found it by searching for "combination" in LT, which lead me to "Combination Switch Reading / Function" which is BCS but wasn't listed in IDX.

[svard75]

What if you replaced the small switch with a 3 position single pole and wire the middle position to both 2 and 18? If I'm reading it correctly it's just ground right? So if you keep the switch in the middle then both are grounded and technically would reverse down at the same time. You would have to be careful when adjusting to ensure you have the switch in the correct mirror position.

[EdBwoy]

mostly to prevent any curb shots.

Exactly. I have my memory set to show all the way down and in so I can see my rims to curb. I don't want curb rash and I don't want tickets. But besides that, like Six-Legs said, I don't want to search for that switch every time for left and right...especially at night. So yes the side would go down according to which signal is engaged when in reverse.

I have a suggestion that might work, but would involve you pushing a button. Set your #1 memory to normal driving, set your #2 memory to be the same but with both mirrors dipped down to the curb. When you want to back up, push #2 and let the magic happen. Seems like the least intrusive way to achieve dual-dip... unless in the bold part of your post above, you meant you are already doing this

[TDot]

@svard, don't want to add anymore switches.
@edhwoy, that's actually a great idea, but I prefer one mirror down and the other on the road for the maniacs that try to bolt pass you while you're parking in NY. Plus, don't you have to put the car in park and press the button, and keep it in park until things get to position? Or is that just for the seats?

[The00Dustin]

I have a suggestion that might work, but would involve you pushing a button. Set your #1 memory to normal driving, set your #2 memory to be the same but with both mirrors dipped down to the curb. When you want to back up, push #2 and let the magic happen. Seems like the least intrusive way to achieve dual-dip... unless in the bold part of your post above, you meant you are already doing this

Doesn't the car have to be in Park for memory buttons to move anything for some stupid reason? I know they won't work while the car is moving, but obviously you stop to parallel park. However, putting the car in park and hitting a button before putting it in reverse sounds like a PITA to me. Granted, it wouldn't require actual modification, but it also probably isn't much easier to "find" those buttons than the mirror L/R selector switch.

[The00Dustin]

Plus, don't you have to put the car in park and press the button, and keep it in park until things get to position? Or is that just for the seats?

TDot, you need to start sleeping in or something. I'm supposed to be able to take my sweet time posting and not get pre-empted, but apparently not in this thread... Sheesh.

[svard75]

@TDot - Fair enough. How about doing this. You want the mirror that is associated with the turn signal to go down without fumbling for the switch correct? So install 2 low voltage relays so that the actuator is powered by the same line that sends the 7-7.5v to the BCM to tell it to activate LH or RH turn lamps. The schematics don't break down what line on the combination switch is specific to the LH or RH signals but it should be easy to test using a multimeter. The relay portion would actually be ground supplied to either terminal 2 or 18. That should do it.

[TDot]

@The00Dustin, lol...
@svard, that's exactly what I was thinking to do. But like you I can't find the corresponding terminals. Like i said above, it's either terminal 2/3 on LT pg 187 or terminal 45/46 on LT pg 188. But then I saw what terminal 36 said and that's throwing me for a little loop. I wasn't thinking to use a VOM to find the terminal though, so that should clear things up.

[svard75]

Remember terminals 45 and 46 are post BCM. That just indicates that the BCM controls the actual flashing. What I was referring to is pre-BCM. Also post BCM would be bad because if you turn on the hazards it would activate both relays and both mirrors would flop down lol.

Also on page 187 input terminals refers to the connector M29 which is the one to the combination switch (Steering column assembly) so the chart shows a voltage of 1V DC when you have the switch in the LH or RH signal position. Not sure why the oscilloscope display is showing the break in signal every 0.9ms. It should be a continuous 1V. Use a multimeter and probe pin 2 and 3 while the car is in the ON position.

[TDot]

Out of curiosity, how do you know 45/46 is post BCM? Is it because it says "output"? Yes, I was wondering about the intermittent voltage signal instead of a constant. I have an oscilloscope and VOM, so I'll run both.

[svard75]

https://plus.google.com/105099584504060 ... 4060580911

In this view the wires connect directly from 45/46 to the lights

[TDot]

I'm wondering if the varying voltage (oscilloscope graph) is simply a matter of the voltage in that line isn't regulated so they are showing the possible ranges and saying that the voltage will be at minimum...or in their words "approx"...1V.

[svard75]

Based off of what they are explaining on page 3 of this http://www.nissanuniversity.ca/Resource ... %20Web.pdf it appears that it's simply the fact that the voltages are oscilating between a range and because of the way an osciliscope works you see it as a pulse. A multimeter will simply display the average measurement.

[The00Dustin]

OK, I did what I mentioned earlier in your FSM on the site Svard links to. What I was suggesting you look at that makes me think this won't work is on BCS-7 in your FSM.

ETA: Technically, it starts at the very end of BCS-6, and this:

BCM reads information of a maximum of 20 switches by combining five output terminals (OUTPUT 1-5) and five input terminals (INPUT 1-5)

From the second chart and scanning through BCS-8, it looks to me like tapping into the MFS line that goes to the BCM inputs that trigger the turn signals would net the following:
[*]Mirrors would move as the signals changed, might not be noticeable to most humans, but could be tough on the equipment.
[*]Above could prevent mirrors from ever actually going all the way down.
[*]Both mirrors might also move when the headlights were on.
[*]Driver mirror would also move when the fog lights were on.
[*]Passenger mirror would also move when the high beams were on.
[*]Each mirror would have one other trigger I don't know (PASSING and LIGHTING)

If I am looking at the chart wrong, then both mirrors would move when the wipers were in low or the windshield washer was on.

It's that or I'm completely misunderstanding one of two things:
1) How the MFS works.
2) Where you are talking about tapping in.