AWD 240sx RBxxDET(T) swap!

[RustspecS13]

Wow thats amazing stuff.

I really dont see a problem with the upright adaptor. I mean its a ~8in by ~1.5in piece of metal with a ball joint on the bottom and two holes in it. As long as its not cast aluminum with new holes drilled in I dont see a problem. Besides that zip tie looks like its for the brake line any way.

Any way looking good, and I cant wait for more videos!

~Alex

[Vkoslak]

Two things come to mind.

Why not just add some high strength metal ring to the top of the strut tower and redrill for two holes instead of the standard three?

How are you planning on getting those upper link brackets in exactly the right place? I would think the 240sx isn't as strong in that area as the gtr and could probably use some reinforcement.

Was it just an ugly rumor that the r34 front end used strut instead of multilink? I don't have the pdf for it at my current location.

If you come up with some exact measurments on where to put those brackets I would be most interested. I have 3 sets of r33 front multilink in my garage and I keep getting tempted to use a pair.

[GTRs13]

Yes it was an ugly rumor, otherwise bolting up the strut would be easy.

I was looking at that type of upper mount soultion, actually.

The shock in the Front AWD multi-link setup isn't whats important to get right, its the upper link orientation.

I know someone with a GTR32, so taking measurements from him won't be too hard.

You got some lower control arms you wanna sell me out of those three sets?

[Vkoslak]

If you have a front clip from an r32, before taking it all apart, you could weld up some kind of frame so that the mounts for the bracket become part of the sub frame. Then cut out the mounts, drop the sub frame, and move it to the 240sx.

Just a crazy idea.

[GTRs13]

Not necessary! That's the beauty of this swap. The subframe is the key, and can be easily bolted in.

But,If you had a GTR front clip, you would have the exact measurement for the upper link bracket, another crucial and very useful part of the suspension swap.

[GTRs13]

Restored

A Bit on the ATTESA-ETS:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATTESA

And why to not manually lock it up:http://www.skylinesaustralia.c...08431

So, the solution is to make a 3-way bypass solenoid that runs in-line with the HICAS power-steering pump.

http://is.rely.net/3-99-18107-...w.jpg

The HICAS pump outlet pressure is between 860psi-990psi.

The ATTESA-ETS actuator for full 4WD lock is around 250psi.(Sorry for mis-informing earlier in the thread, FSM procedure for barely engaging the front diff for diagnosis is 70psi. My mistake:facepalm:)

Similar how an A'Pexi AVC-R works as far as Pulswidth Modulation (PWM) I can control my "ATTESA Solenoid" like a boost controller, programmable in every gear, or by throttle.

Locking the Front diff ,Acceleration or Deceleration, under hard torque will break the diff.

This is why Nissan spent so much time in perfecting the smooth delivery of front torque in realtime for the ATTESA-ETS.

USB mini-board to control the solenoid:http://arduino.cc/

And yet, even more to come.

[Vkoslak]

Doesn't the attesa system use the abs sensors to detect when there is wheel slip and then engage the front diff?

My 240sx came with hicas and abs. I would think starting with a hicas model may give someone attempting awd a slightly easier time of getting the factory attessa working.

I'm wondering with the front axle going through the oil pan, that rather limits where you can place the motor since it has to be lined up with the wheels and I would think it would prevent you from using shorter engine mounts. Hood clearance will probably be an issue in addition to how far forward the engine may have to be placed.

How will the usb help you? Wouldn't that mean you would have to have a pc on all the time running it?

[GTRs13]

Doesn't the attesa system use the abs sensors to detect when there is wheel slip and then engage the front diff?

Yes, through a series of harnesses, ABS computer, ATTESA computer, fluid transfer lines, the ATESSA pump, etc (Good luck finding all of that)

My 240sx came with HICAS and ABS. I would think starting with a hicas model may give someone attempting awd a slightly easier time of getting the factory ATTESA working.

Yes, it would be easier if one had an ABS HICAS car.

This way you would not have to add the ABS system in conjunction with ATTESA like I would have to if I wanted to use ATTESA-ETS.

Although the HICAS part of it, is undesirable and would want to be removed w/ a HICAS lockout bar.

I'm wondering with the front axle going through the oil pan, that rather limits where you can place the motor since it has to be lined up with the wheels and I would think it would prevent you from using shorter engine mounts. Hood clearance will probably be an issue in addition to how far forward the engine may have to be placed.

As I have stated a bunch of times, the key to doing this is the GTR front subframe. When you use the GTR subframe, everything lines up as its supposed to. No mount kit is needed as with the RWD swaps.

Hood clearance might be an issue, but nothing some cutting/fabrication can't fix.

How will the usb help you? Wouldn't that mean you would have to have a pc on all the time running it?

No the Arduino has an onboard EPROM. This means you use the USB to communicate, but once its programmed, the onboard memory keeps the program loaded.

When you shut off and turn on, it has a booting program, that instantly loads your last program when 12v is switched over.

You should really read up on it to see what it can do.

Its pretty amazing, tiny, and only 30 bucks!

[240SETulsa]

Im very interested in doing this. I have a 91 hatch with hicas and abs. Could you list everything you have to get in order to achieve the correct suspension and diff setup? That way I can price all the parts I would need. Looking forward to the DETAILED build. Just hope it doesn't handle like crap lol.

[GTRs13]

This entire topic doesn't have enough *Detail* for you?

Oh and there is no way its going to "Handle like crap" since you are using factory Nissan Geometry.

This another one of those fear mongering rumors, that puts people off from doing stuff like this.

[240SETulsa]

I do good with lists lol. If you can list what all I need that way I can go shopping it would be much easier lol. I know I need the crossmember but what else? What parts of the skyline suspension are you using? Sorry im newb lol.

[Vkoslak]

Hell I might use the gtr front cross member and multi-link even if I don't go AWD. I like the way the sway bar sits better than what I currently have. Looks like it would be more ridged too. The multi-link setup should allow some different wheel offsets.

I wonder if I can use the hockey puck isolator replacement mod to make the engine sit low enough to not have to mess with the hood.

[Carl H]

this is not a swap for those who are feint of heart and have no fab skills...

[GTRs13]

Agreed.

This swap is for the seasoned veteran, who has built a car a few times before.

[Vkoslak]

I thought of something yesterday that would affect trying to use the stock attessa on a hicas 240sx. The 240sx abs sensor is just one ring on the front of the diff. The R32 diff has two sensor rings on the side. So you're still looking at running abs sensor wires to the rear. If you are wanting to keep abs, you would most likely need the r32 abs computer. I don't know if you have to have the abs computer in order to keep attessa.

[GTRs13]

Well, in order to match the front an rear diffs, you need to use the GTR32 Rear LSD anyways.

And yes if you want to bother with somehow sourcing a genuine ATTESA-ETS system for your project, you do need ABS *sensors* as well to communicate with the ATTESA ECU.
Modified by GTRs13 at 1:13 PM 4/16/2009

[GTRs13]

Restored

Well time to update.

As most people know, the RB turbos are made of ceramic turbine wheels that are epoxied on the shaft.

Well, after 18 years of 100,000+rpm operation the wheels tend to fly off.

So without changing manifolds and wastegates, and fuel injectors, etc, here's the setup I will be using.





The EVOIII 16G Turbo is a killer 2.0 liter turbo that:

-Spools fully (20psi) by 3000rpm on a 2.0

-Will pull to 7500-8000 rpm on the right setup

-Is cheap as hell! ($560 brand new)

-Internally gated (No external setup required)

-Kicks a T3 Super 60's a**!

-Will be perfect on the RB20DET

A FMIC will be added, as well as a new Walbro 255lph, and an Aeromotive AFPR.

But that's about it...

[Carl H]

you dont need abs for the atessa to work, just manually run wires for the individual sensors...this is what gtr guys do when they ditch the abs.also atessa-pro in the r32 vspec had no abs and this is how they accomplished that.atessa pro is also the atessa system that was used in the r33 gtr vs the atessa-ets found in the std r32 gtr it is much more advanced than the old ets.unfortunately unlike the old ets system the pro can only do i think at max like a 1%/99% split vs the full off that can be accomplished with pulling of the fuse on the old ets systems.dont hold me to that...its been a while since ive done my research on the awd swap.

[GTRs13]

Restored

I just looked up the Skylines Australia forum about this.

IF you are a baller, and can actually Find:

-ATTESA-ETS ECU

-ATTESA Harness

-ATTESA Pump

-GTR32 ABS sensors

-GTR32 Rear diff w/ sensors

Then you can wire each individual ABS sensor to the ATTESSA ECU.

Next you set the TPS to a voltage of .4v closed.

Voila! ATTESA w/o ABS

But the chances of that are as good as getting into bed with the "Girls Next Door"

Plus, the ATTESA has its own quirks that are fixed by using a variable controller anyways. = Not worth the conversion, strictly to say "I have ATTESA"

Hence, the Arduino computer for Front diff control.

[Vkoslak]

Awwww. It's so cute.

[240cp]

Any updates?

[GTRs13]

Got the KA wiring harness removed.

I'm going to remove the 4-lug front suspension today as well.



Smile MY beautiful Girlfriend!



This Wednesday is going to be the actual swap, I'm psyched!
Modified by GTRs13 at 2:15 PM 8/1/2009

[zerodameaon]

Ah good old maine. It seems to infect RB swap onto us 240 guys.

[GTRs13]

Restored

Got another little update.

The rails look good with the suspension removed fully.

[soon2Bcool]

noob here with an s13, just eating up this whole write-up. I NEED MORE!!! updates?

[Kalypso]

Im very pleased with your thread... great work

please get a nicer camera. you're the first person to do this so you should strive to be very thorough.

full race did this to an s14, I couldnt find pics of the undercarriage but they're out there

[GTRs13]

Restored

Im very pleased with your thread... great work

Gee, thanks.

please get a nicer camera. you're the first person to do this so you should strive to be very thorough.

No I'm not.

I'm not sorry if the pics don't meet your certification of quality.

When you are *Actually* swapping, one tends to do work, and not just snap pictures with Ashton Kutcher's D60 under 6000 lux stage lighting.

full race did this to an s14, I couldnt find pics of the undercarriage but they're out there

If you read the first page, you would know I've covered the R14 already. There are pictures of the undercarriage there.

But, uh thanks for your "Support"

Oh and can you guys stop saying "Noob"?

If any of you were old enough to know the origin of that word, you are one of two things.

1.A "Dungeons And Dragons" freakshow, that plays Roleplaying out of a hard-bound book with figurines. Yes, you basically play with dolls.

2.You are a true hacker. You can get into any system (Not likely with people on here) and when you come across a wannabe hacker that cannot do what you do, this is a term of condescension.

Since nobody here is either (I hope), you can put that ridiculous word "Noob" in the grave along the likes of "Deaf" and "Jiggy"

That is all.

[Kalypso]

I'm not sorry if the pics don't meet your certification of quality.

woah... uh... yeah.

If you read the first page, you would know I've covered the R14 already. There are pictures of the undercarriage there.

...um... ok.

[GTRs13]

Restored.

I got that stinking KA24E and cross-member the hell out!

[Darius]

Check the attitude at the door. No need to be a d!ck to people who show a genuine interest in your project and want to learn from you. And save the sad attempt at humor with your interpretation of the derivation of the term "n00b". Waste of bandwidth...