Arizona passes state bill to secede from the union if matial law is declared.

[TBrack]

"Marc Chung sends in a very interesting tidbit of information covering http://www.azleg.state.az.us/l...p.htm Arizona bill HCR 2034: ”abolish federal government; state sovereignty”. More specifically the bill covers the situation in which the US government declares marshal law then Arizona will join with 34 or more (majority) of states and declare their own independence from the Union… interesting (especially with election time around the corner and conspiracies about that Bush/Cheney empire would do something in order to declare marshal law to avoid the election):

1. That when or if the President of the United States, the Congress of the United States or any other federal agent or agency declares the Constitution of the United States to be suspended or abolished, if the President or any other federal entity attempts to institute martial law or its equivalent without an official declaration in one or more of the states without the consent of that state or if any federal order attempts to make it unlawful for individual Americans to own firearms or to confiscate firearms, the State of Arizona, when joined by thirty-four of the other fifty states, declares as follows:

that the states resume all state powers delegated by the Constitution of the United States and assume total sovereignty; that the states re-ratify and re-establish the present Constitution of the United States as the charter for the formation of a new federal government, to be followed by the election of a new Congress and President and the reorganization of a new judiciary, similarly following the precedent and procedures of the founding fathers; that individual members of the military return to their respective states and report to the Governor until a new President is elected; that each state assume a negotiated, prorated share of the national debt; that all land within the borders of a state belongs to the state until sold or ceded to the central government by the state’s Legislature and Governor; and that once thirty-five states have agreed to form a new government, each of the remaining fifteen be permitted to join the new confederation on application."

And if you haven't heard about the federal law that allows Bush to declare martial law and become the dictator of the USA here is some information for you.

http://www.towardfreedom.com/h.../911/
Modified by lasoyafan at 7:33 AM 10/17/2008

[themadscientist]

sounds fun, I triple dog dare ya.

[Cold_Zero]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,435188,00.html

It most likely wont happen.

We here in Indiana hear this **** all the time. They claim that the Amtrack Station down in Beach Grove has been setup with barbed wire fences and seats with shackles to be a FEMA concentration camp. Don't believe me look it up on Youtube. These allegations are utter crap. If the Federal Government were to declare martial law and attempt to take over Indiana, every freaking hillbilly from Muncie-Anderson to Shelbyville-Martinsville would rise up with their weapon caches and overthrown the government. There would be beer cans and shotgun shells strooned all over the place. They would get in their Chevy Silverados, with their Dale Jr. bumper stickers and that little Calvin sticker pissing on a Ford emblem and head for home and the government would wonder what the **** just happened.

[marlin29311]

I think we're in for larger problems if martial law is declared....oi.

[HashiriyaS14]

So hang on.

Let's say the United States is invaded.

In that scenario, the federal government would most certainly declare martial law, and for very good reason.

Does this mean that AZ would then be trying to secede?

The whole idea of state secession in the modern era is ridiculous, given that all the weaponry is still the property of the Federal Government. It's not like a divorce, AZ wouldn't somehow be entitled to 1/50th of all the goodies, lol. I don't understand any organization or individual who proposes any sort of state secession for really any reason, which is why that whole Alaska organization Palin was involved with raises my eyebrow. It's the domain of morons, it's impossible.

The idea that Bush and Cheney are going to attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power is preposterous. This isn't Metal Gear Solid, drop the conspiracy theories.

Additionally, it's "martial", not "marshal".

[Cold_Zero]

Additionally, it's "martial", not "marshal".

No, no, no... Marshal is the Law.. Not Martial Law.j/k

[themadscientist]

Too early for that. Americans have not voluntarily given up all their freedoms yet. It is not far away though, bar codes, RFID chip implants etc, they are coming

[TBrack]

So hang on.

Let's say the United States is invaded.

In that scenario, the federal government would most certainly declare martial law, and for very good reason.

Does this mean that AZ would then be trying to secede?

The whole idea of state secession in the modern era is ridiculous, given that all the weaponry is still the property of the Federal Government. It's not like a divorce, AZ wouldn't somehow be entitled to 1/50th of all the goodies, lol. I don't understand any organization or individual who proposes any sort of state secession for really any reason, which is why that whole Alaska organization Palin was involved with raises my eyebrow. It's the domain of morons, it's impossible.

The idea that Bush and Cheney are going to attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power is preposterous. This isn't Metal Gear Solid, drop the conspiracy theories.

Additionally, it's "martial", not "marshal".

It quite disturbs me that you think martial law is ok. First of all no foreign enemy has attacked our soil in decades. Terrorists don't count because they don't represent a nation nor do we know if they really exist, all we know is what the media tells us. Secondly, the law that Bush passed allows him to declare martial law whenever he sees fit, be it a natural disaster, "terrorlst attack", or economic collapse. Don't be so naive to think Bush would never do something like this, just look at all the bills he has passed to pave the way for his Empire.

Additionally I didn't write the article in quotes on top so I will not edit it.
Modified by lasoyafan at 11:37 AM 10/17/2008

[themadscientist]

In the scenario he illustrated it would be appropriate. You misrepresent his statements

[Cold_Zero]

Last time the United States was invaded by foreign army was by the Japanese in the Aleutian Islands, well after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Regardless, what do you call the invasion of the some 20 million illegal Mexicans across our border? I guess that the Mexicans don’t really exist like the terrorists. But hey if terrorists really don’t exist, who blew up the Federal Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, Bombed the WTC in the 1990’s and Branch Davidian Compound in Waco? Terrorists!

FYI, Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store, not a Federal Agency.

They made the same allegations about GHW Bush because of the whole thousand points of lights, Skull and Bones, Free Masonry, New World Order and Illuminate

[themadscientist]

But hey if terrorists really don’t exist, who blew up the Federal Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, Bombed the WTC in the 1990’s and Branch Davidian Compound in Waco? Terrorists!

*stares nervously at open door, gets drinks and chips ready for the kooks*

[AZhitman]

You need to re-read the text of the Bill.

Basicaly, it says, "If this ship goes down, and all hell breaks loose, we're on our own and we'll kick your a$$."

I'm pretty sure a lot of states have such obscure "doomsday" bills.

BTW, that second citation is pure whacko nonsense.

Much ado about nothing, but props to the OP for the interesting tidbit...

[heliochrome85]

It quite disturbs me that you think martial law is ok. First of all no foreign enemy has attacked our soil in decades. Terrorists don't count because they don't represent a nation nor do we know if they really exist, all we know is what the media tells us. Secondly, the law that Bush passed allows him to declare martial law whenever he sees fit, be it a natural disaster, "terrorlst attack", or economic collapse. Don't be so naive to think Bush would never do something like this, just look at all the bills he has passed to pave the way for his Empire.

Additionally I didn't write the article in quotes on top so I will not edit it.

Put down the bong, sir. Seriously, Bush's empire. LOLWAT?! I would hardly call iraq evidence of an empire. It would be like calling a doublewide trailer, an estate.

[dusred]

But hey if terrorists really don’t exist, who blew up the Federal Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, Bombed the WTC in the 1990’s and Branch Davidian Compound in Waco? Terrorists!

Actually, in Waco it was the Gov't. But yeah.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

I'm pretty sure a lot of states have such obscure "doomsday" bills.

Montana was rattling the saber before DC vs Heller that an anti-RKBA ruling would mean that the USA violated Montana's terms of statehood and that they'ed withdraw from the Union. I've heard Texas has a good one, too.

OP is a troll and/or stupid. He's also coming pretty close to violating the UCMJ if his profile is correct. OP, why are you in the military if you believe that the Commander-in-Chief will use you for evil?

[Cold_Zero]

Actually, in Waco it was the Gov't. But yeah.

You obviously didnt catch what I was implying. That the BATF are domestic terrorists.

[Cold_Zero]

OP is a troll and/or stupid. He's also coming pretty close to violating the UCMJ if his profile is correct. OP, why are you in the military if you believe that the Commander-in-Chief will use you for evil?

He works for United Student Aid Funds?

[TBrack]

OP is a troll and/or stupid. He's also coming pretty close to violating the UCMJ if his profile is correct. OP, why are you in the military if you believe that the Commander-in-Chief will use you for evil?

I know my rights as a military member and as a citizen, I have done nothing to violate either so maybe you should point that finger elsewhere

I, like a lot of people joined when I was uninformed and blind, I had no idea what was going on in our government. Maybe you people should take away the paradigm and look at things from a broader prospective.

Read this piece of info for instance.http://www.alternet.org/rights...ntire
Modified by lasoyafan at 1:09 PM 10/17/2008

[Urabus GodofTraction]

I know my rights as a military member and as a citizen, I have done nothing to violate either so maybe you should point that finger elsewhere

I, like a lot of people joined when I was uninformed and blind, I had no idea what was going on in our government. Maybe you people should take away the paradigm and look at things from a broader prospective.

If you're a commissioned officer, you've most certainly run afoul of Section 888 of the UCMJ.

If you're not, are you willing to gamble that they won't apply the 888 to enlisted members?

[TBrack]

If you're a commissioned officer, you've most certainly run afoul of Section 888 of the UCMJ.

If you're not, are you willing to gamble that they won't apply the 888 to enlisted members?

It doesn't apply.


Modified by lasoyafan at 7:45 AM 10/18/2008

[ishkabibble]

I don't think anyone would notice if Indiana seceded from the union.

Well, maybe when they got detoured on their road trip.

[AZhitman]

I appreciate your service.

Perhaps you should appreciate the service of those who preceded you.

BTW, please don't take this personal, but I always like to remind people that there's hundreds of flights a day leaving the US...

Uncle Sam ain't such a bad guy on payday, right?

[hannibal]

blah, blah bla-blah, bla-balhblah, blah, blah! blah!!

Ban this guy form the Politics forum. Nobody's seceding...

[themadscientist]

Ban this guy form the Politics forum. Nobody's seceding...

That is not how alternate opinions should be treated. He has a right to beleive what he beleives and express it in an acceptable manner which I think he has done. Shouting people down and or eliminating opposition purely because we disagree is not how things go around here.

[Cold_Zero]

I don't think anyone would notice if Indiana seceded from the union.

Well, maybe when they got detoured on their road trip.

They would come race time.

[hannibal]

That is not how alternate opinions should be treated. He has a right to beleive what he beleives and express it in an acceptable manner which I think he has done. Shouting people down and or eliminating opposition purely because we disagree is not how things go around here.

It was a joke TMS. And Sarah Palin is a Russian...

[TBrack]

There are a number of bills (not to this extreme) concerning Martial law in states. The reason is because a few senators were threatened with 'martial law' as a result of the economy crashing if they didnt pass the bailout bill. They used scare tactics to get that 700Billion thru.

U.S. Rep. Brad Sherman of California said to Congress, captured on C-Span andviewable on YouTube, that individual members of the House were threatened with martial law within a week if they did not pass the bailout bill:

.."The only way they can pass this bill is by creating and sustaining a panic atmosphere. … Many of us were told in private conversations that if we voted against this bill on Monday that the sky would fall, the market would drop two or three thousand points the first day and a couple of thousand on the second day, and a few members were even told that there would be martial law in America if we voted no."..

(not my writing, but I will keep the author anonymous since it is from a different forum.)

[TBrack]

I don't think any of you read the opinions of this retired MILITARY MEMBER on the issue.

"I interviewed Vietnam veteran, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel and patriot David Antoon for clarification:

"If the President directed the First Brigade to arrest Congress, what could stop him?"

"Nothing. Their only recourse is to cut off funding. The Congress would be at the mercy of military leaders to go to them and ask them not to obey illegal orders."

"But these orders are now legal?'"

"Correct."

"If the President directs the First Brigade to arrest a bunch of voters, what would stop him?"

"Nothing. It would end up in courts but the action would have been taken."

"If the President directs the First Brigade to kill civilians, what would stop him?"

"Nothing."

"What would prevent him from sending the First Brigade to arrest the editor of the Washington Post?"

"Nothing. He could do what he did in Iraq -- send a tank down a street in Washington and fire a shell into the Washington Post as they did into Al Jazeera, and claim they were firing at something else."

"What happens to members of the First Brigade who refuse to take up arms against U.S. citizens?"

"They'd probably be treated as deserters as in Iraq: arrested, detained and facing five years in prison. In Iraq a study by Ann Wright shows that deserters -- reservists who refused to go back to Iraq -- got longer sentences than war criminals."

"Does Congress have any military of their own?"

"No. Congress has no direct control of any military units. The Governors have the National Guard but they report to the President in an emergency that he declares."

"Who can arrest the President?"

"The Attorney General can arrest the President after he leaves or after impeachment."

[Note: Prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi has asserted it is possible for District Attorneys around the country to charge President Bush with murder if they represent districts where one or more military members who have been killed in Iraq formerly resided.]

"Given the danger do you advocate impeachment?"

"Yes. President Bush struck down Posse Comitatus -- which has prevented, with a penalty of two years in prison, U.S. leaders since after the Civil War from sending military forces into our streets -- with a 'signing statement.' He should be impeached immediately in a bipartisan process to prevent the use of military forces and mercenary forces against U.S. citizens"

"Should Americans call on senior leaders in the Military to break publicly with this action and call on their own men and women to disobey these orders?"

"Every senior military officer's loyalty should ultimately be to the Constitution. Every officer should publicly break with any illegal order, even from the President."

"But if these are now legal. If they say, 'Don't obey the Commander in Chief,' what happens to the military?"

"Perhaps they would be arrested and prosecuted as those who refuse to participate in the current illegal war. That's what would be considered a coup."

"But it's a coup already."

"Yes.""

[AZhitman]

So, after all that "what if" jibberish, what's the point?

We're all well aware that the Left used "scare tactics" to get Paulson's bailout passed.

BTW, just because the interviewee is a "retired U.S. Air Force Colonel" doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about. Lots of hypothetical, fantasy scenarios that have no basis in reality, nor can they be realistically construed as feasible.

Reynolds Wrap must have been on sale this week.

[heliochrome85]

Reynolds Wrap must have been on sale this week.

I bought some.