Are these prices normal for maintenance??

[tnen559]

Hi all,

I own a 2002 Q45 with only 68K mi. on it and I bought it a year ago with 59K on it from a dealer. It was a lease return, so I figure the previous owner had to have taken it in for a regular maintenance. It's my first luxury car of this sort and I'm finding out these are way more expensive to maintain than I had anticipated. I wanted to ask everyone if these prices quoted by my dealership are ballpark compared to other places:

60K mi service - $800+oil change - $100

With this kind of pricing, dare I take my car in and have them run a diagnostic on my AC airflow being weak or why my side mirrors won't adjust any more? If I am right about my transmission going out soon (how long do they normally last?) is that going to set me back $3K+ at the dealer? So here are my 3 main questions:

1. Are Q45s really that expensive to own maintenance-wise?

2. Am I supposed to have electrical, AC and transmission problems at only 68K mi?

3. Would it be safe to take my car to a private shop that "specializes" in foreign/Japanese luxury cars vs. dealership?

Thank you in advance for your help and advice.

[Q45tech]

Unfortunately all the fancy decor, clean bathrooms, coffee, loaner cars have to be paid by customers in the form of high hourly rates.

Nationwide the MSRP on parts are the same but rates vary from $95 to $145 per hour especially in high COLA area like CA.

Preventative maintenance can be done by any shop QUALIFIED and EXPERIENCED in your year and model. BUT they will have to buy oem parts from the dealership [very common] unless they substitute possibly inferior filters and fluids from the corner autoparts discounters.

It is unlikely that any dealer will do everything necessary to greatly prolong life of components and you should always discuss extras - what the tech would do if it was his mother's car.

Really depends on how long you plan on keeping the vehicle.........above 100,000 miles EXPECT to reserve at least $3,000 per year [15k] for M&R.

$60,000 car are not cheap to maintain and very expensive to repair vs a 4 cylinder MT FWD econobox. At least double per mile driven! Not counting gas, insurance tax tag, etc.

"so I figure the previous owner had to have taken it in for a regular maintenance"..... leased cars are the absolute worst maintained vehicles on the planet...........you must have written proof that every thing was done or accept the consequences

[elwesso]

For dealer prices and labor rates in CA, most of those things are not ridiculous...

the 60k service is the big one, which includes spark plug replacement...

Dont take this the wrong way, but the smart owner knows EXACTLY what his car needs.. They wont take "60k mile tuneup" for an answer....

Anyway, the 60k is basically just fuel filter, air filter, spark plugs and replacing the coolant.. Along with that I would personally replace every other fluid in the car, like trans, differential, PS and brake..

for most things I woudl not have a problem taking it to a independent shop. 60k service, oil changes, etc... Things like the electrical problem you're having may need to go to the dealer (i suspect its just the switch).

On another note, many things you cna do yourself to save some money. They will charge you probably 30 mins labor to replace the air filter when it takes 5 mins to do and you dont even need tools! Fuel filter may take an hour to do if you are mechanically retarded...

Whoever told your trans is about done is on some sort of sauce... You shoudl be able to get 150-200k out of a nissan AT provided you keep its lifeblood nice and fresh!

the AC airflow being weak is most likely the cabin filter which should be replaced at 60k...

[tnen559]

Thanks for the info guys. I already feel better about what my next steps are going to be.

Tech, first and foremost, I'd like to say that if you had a shop here in town, I'd be there first thing this morning. I went to your web site and what your business is all about was like a breath of fresh air. Congrats! The question I have is (actually before I go there I wanted to let you both know, in case you haven't figured it out yet, I was not raised with cars and know almost nothing about them, but I am very good at taking my cars in at the scheduled intervals) how can I tell someone is "qualified and experienced"? I've learned my lesson not to take their word when they say "We're very experienced and qualified". As far as my mistaken opinion of leased cars goes, I think I remember my lease saying that me being on time with the maintenance was part of the lease agreement?? Or am I mistaken?

Elwesso, great website you've put together (or moderating). So we've already established I'm not a smart owner. But I did one smart thing and told the dealer to go fly a kite. I looked at the list they gave me and indeed, it was an oil change with fluid top off and air/fuel filter replacement (not even sure if spark plugs were on that list). And I did not want to believe that it would take "experienced" mechanics who ONLY work on infinities more than 5 hours to do that. Wit regards to my transmission, it was my opinion. What happens is sometimes from a stop when I hit the gas in a normal way my RPMs go up but the car doesn't start moving for a half a second after and then when it's a jerky takeoff. It's as if I step on the gas while the car's in neutral and then throw it in drive. And that's accompanied by very prominent noise I cannot put down in words.

My apologies for the lenghty post, I'll do my best to keep the subsequent ones much shorter
Modified by tnen559 at 12:10 PM 10/27/2007

[elwesso]

Please dont take what myself or tech is saying the wrong way, we want to inspire to become the learned vehicle owner.

As far as qualified and experienced, all you have to do is ask them if theyve worked on a 2002+ Q45. Granted, for many jobs like basic maintenance most places can handle things on Q45s. Even, spark plugs shouldnt be a problem for most independent technicians. When you get more complex jobs you then need to become pickier.

The MAIN REASON I do all my own work on my car is because I do not trust anyone else to do the job I will do. If I mess it up I feel better than if some retard messes it up.

Any joe blow who knows how to turn a wrench can replace an air and fuel filter in under 30 mins, I do mine in about 15 mins.

Have you checked everything in your trans, like fluid level? Maybe you had a leak and it never was refilled?

how far away are you from San Diego?

[tnen559]

On a good day 4.5 hrs. I've actually been looking for an excuse to drive down there and see an old friend. Only thing is, I have an 8-5 job and can only do it on weekends. If that's ok with you, I'm game for next weekend. Email me (I'm assuming you can see what my email is) if you want to set something up. Thanks

P.S. I do love my car and plan on keeping it for a few years, that's why I want to make sure I take care of it the right way.

[maxnix]

I figure the previous owner had to have taken it in for a regular maintenance.

Don't assume a thing. Have your service writer print out the Infinti dealer performed service history.

Two facts: Labor prices are determined by each dealer in their market and whether the service schdeule is factory minimum or more comprehensive is determined by each dealer independently.

Lastly, you must relaize that the factory maintenance schedule is designed to be sufficient to get 98% of the cars beyond the original OEM warranty, and no more. If you want to own your car for over 6 years or 100K miles, it behooves you to maintain it beyond the factory minimum standards.

How, you might ask? Read all of Q45tech's posts and learn.

For a major service, consider http://www.jerrytucker.net
Modified by maxnix at 8:35 AM 10/28/2007

[szh]

It was a lease return, so I figure the previous owner had to have taken it in for a regular maintenance.

Unfortunately, I learned the hard way that this is not necessarily true. I looked at the Infiniti service records for a lease return I bought years ago (a 1995 Infiniti Q45 that I bought in 1998 with 55k miles or so) and that was not sufficient. The previous owner had done the bare minimums, but I overlooked the few extra things (that I did not know about back then) that would have given me a better outcome.

The lessor never flushed the transmission regularly (every 30k is a good thing to do on these cars) and my transmission failed at 104k miles ... just after the extended 100k mile warranty ran out! I did a flush at 90k miles, but the abuse had already done it in.

And, yes, some of the simple things (like an oil change) can be done by any decent place ... or you, if you are up for it! I buy my oil from local auto shops, the OEM filter and crush washer from http://www.everythinginfiniti.com, and have a local Precision Tune or Goodyear place (they let me watch and supervise the person doing the work) do the change. I don't do it myself, because the labor charge of $10 to $12 is worth it for me - these places have a lift and can dispose the used oil and filter more easily too.

Z

[Haitian_King]

Does it cost anything to have your maintenance history printed? Can I do it at any Infiniti Dealer? Do they go by VIN?

Sorry for all the questions, but this might help me to end the guessing games and know exactly where I stand with my Q.

[tnen559]

Thank you all for the wonderful info. I am learning a lot. I must say I never thought that sticking to the manufacturer's recommended maintenance was the bare minimum. Wow! Glad to know. I've red a lot of the posts and am getting good ideas as to how maintenance should be done, but have not ran into a post that has a complete schedule of how one of you guys would maintain your ride. Would anyone be kind enough to post a link to a post like that or reply with your schedule? Also what would you recommend I get done to my car when I take it to the dealer/shop next time? So far I've only changed my oil 3 times between now (69K mi.) and a year ago when I purchased it (58K). I know already I need a 60K service and a transmission flush. If you would go in order from most to least urgent, I'd greatly appreciate it. Also, out of the things above, what are the ones I should get done at the dealer's besides my electrical? Thanks again

[maxnix]

but have not ran into a post that has a complete schedule of how one of you guys would maintain your ride. Would anyone be kind enough to post a link to a post like that or reply with your schedule? Also what would you recommend I get done to my car when I take it to the dealer/shop next time? So far I've only changed my oil 3 times between now (69K mi.) and a year ago when I purchased it (58K). I know already I need a 60K service and a transmission flush.

Also, out of the things above, what are the ones I should get done at the dealer's besides my electrical? Thanks again

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Search is your friend.

Dealer would be good to do oil and filter changes (you supply both if you don't want minimum quality (M1 filters from Joe) and brake fluid (you supply DOT4 if you want it) as they will have the Consult to activate ABS unit for the flush.

A dedicated automotive electrical shop with the FSM (and preferably the TSB also) should be able to handle your gremlins. Few dealers have an Infniti Senior Technician who was trained on G50 in 1989.

[tnen559]

So here's what I think I'm going to do tomorrow: Go to the dealer, ask for a printout and discuss what they think I should get done to the car. Then figure out what can/can't wait and what can/can't be done at a shop vs. the dealer. And of course post here what happened @ the dealer's. Any other suggestions or recommendations? Anything in specific I should be asking my dealer besides "What do you think I need done?"

[ScottJackson]

yup, dealerships and a lot of auto repair shops offer cheap oil changes to draw in customers. I not only brings people in the shop on a regular basis (so they get used to coming to the shop) but also is a great opportunity to suggest other repairs that may or may not be needed. Just because a shop that did the oil change says something needs repaired doesn't mean it really does... but it also doesn't mean that it's surely BS either. Find a shop who's fair that you can trust. Some shops try to cheat their way into making $$$ while others know that people don't mind paying a fair price for an honest repair that was needed. Most customers don't mind paying a decent price, they just fear getting ripped off. I guess I'm rambling now, but I'm in the beginning stages of starting my own repair shop so it's been going through my head quite a bit lately. Anyway, it's always good to learn as much as you can about your car's mechanicals. It can save you a ton of money. As for suggestions when you go to the dealer, it'd be good if you can talk to the mechanic who works on your car. And be very nice to him/her. They bust their knuckles all day and a "friend" of a customer will always receive the best service at the best price (meaning they won't inflate the time spent on the repair/maintenance and they'll care more about your car than joe-blow's car).

[Haitian_King]

Very wise words.

I think I'll bring Christmas cards to my mechanic and the guys that run the gas station. They've always been good to me and the mechanic Mr. Dung is really quick and thorough.

[tnen559]

BTW Tech and El, any idea what might be wrong with my transmission based on my previous post? I'd really appreciate some input.

[maxnix]

I think I'll bring Christmas cards to my mechanic and the guys that run the gas station.

Twenties will go a lot farther.

[Haitian_King]

Christmas cards with $20's in them.

[tnen559]

OK, so I went to the dealership earlier today and I must say I'm pretty happy with the outcome. He printed out my history and said the previous owner maintained the crap outta this car . Then he said the 6yr/100K mi extended warranty had automatically been transferred to my name. So I still have until Jan '09. I knew there was no way I could track down the lady and have her sign the trnasfer form. Now the not-so-good news. I figured out it would cost me $1,230/yr if I drive 11K mi or $925/yr if I drive 7,500 mi. I fall in between these two #s. That's only routine maintenance though. I figure another 700-800/yr? for repairs/extra parts so I'm getting close to the $2K mark. Kinda steep but there are people out there putting 25-30K/yr so I can't complain too much. OMG I just realized my car costs me approx. $1,100/mo between my payment, insurance, gas and maintenance

As far as prices go, here's the local dealership breakdown:

7,500 mi service is $219.95 and includes:

Drain and refill oil/change oil filter/replace drain plug gasket/add engine oil additive/inspect battery/rotate & balance tires (if applicable)/adjust air pressure/add fuel syst. treatment/inspect air filter, brakes, and suspension/27 point inspection.

15K mi is $369.95 and includes all of the above +

service and test battery/add terminal corrosion protectors/replace air filter/replace in cabin micro filter/

The 30K jumps to $909.95!!! by only adding:

adjust parking brake/clean throttle body and injectors/transmission fluid exchange/flush cooling system/check engine control system.

Is this reasonable? How many hours of labor do you guys think each of these should take? How much do you think I would save by bringing my own parts/oil? Are these services similar to what you'd offer at those intervals? Anything extra you include in your maintenance, Tech? Based on the previous posts, it seems like I could get the 7,500 and 15K done at a private shop and just take my car to the dealer for the 30/60/90K. Basically would it be feasible to cut my maintenance costs in half?
Modified by tnen559 at 8:20 PM 10/29/2007

[maxnix]

This board is a lot about do it yourself, whether it is air filters or timing chain guides (not a concern on your model).

Basically, 15¢/mile seems to be a good number to budget. You don't need to spend $300 every month, but some months will require $900 or more.

Becoming very familiar with the FSM, TSB and posts on this board will increase your understanding and allow you to do it yourself, or at least effectively evaluate and monitor independent shops you may use.

Get your parts from Joe, but be aware the dealer may not let you bring them in, and in any case will not warranty them. But Joe will.

I'd be very surprised if they had an actual ATF exchange machine and did not just do a drain and refilll like most dealers. Few dealers are that aggressive on maintenance.

A visit to Jerry Tucker is not a bad idea for value of service received.

[Haitian_King]

You know what I've realized? $2-3K sounds like a really steep figure. But when it's spread out through the year, it doesn't seem that bad.

[Q45tech]

The $3k was developed on 90-93 Q over a few thousand customers over 10 years at our 3 shops.

So few 2002 and later Q were sold and to our customers that it is very hard to guess at this point in time, so we use $3k as a base after all if you don't spend it you still have it to spend.

Tires have doubled in cost in larger sizes and electronics have tripled in value and transmissions have added 1 gear [so $1,000 more to rebuild] vs older Q.

[Haitian_King]

Tech. Have you thought about expanding farther North? Like say Jersey? It would be sweet to have a Branch out here. (At least for me.) I wouldn't have to worry anymore about the competence of the shops.

I'd have a place to hang out and expand my knowledge of Q's. Just a thought.

[maxnix]

Keith Vanmeter serves the area very well. T-3 is conservatively managed (to stay in business) and locally rooted in a large Infiniti (5 dealers) and even larger Lexus (their mainstay) vehicle sales area.

[Haitian_King]

Ah. I need to find the time to check Keith out.

I need to make friends with someone with a lift. Then I could lift my Q up and do all of the stuff I need to do rather than get charged for it.

[maxnix]

I need to make friends with someone with a lift.

Then I could lift my Q up and do all of the stuff I need to do rather than get charged for it.

A friend with a lift and air tools is a friend indeed. But it still costs him money to have and maintain.

[Haitian_King]

I guess. We'd probably work out a bartering system, or I bring him/her loads of business.

Until then, wishful thinking and shrinking wallet.

Don't care, I still love my Q!