Apple/Doc sub/amp box questions

[Infantry1327]

I am planning on building my own fiberglass box. I have read alot over the past few days on how to do this and I think I have a good shot. So far I have been looking into getting 2 JL 10w6v2 subs, 2 JL 500/1v2 amps for the subs, and JL g4500 amp for the components. The subs will be in each corner like apples but slightly different position.

Questions?1. How do you think this set up will perform or would you recomend something different?2. What do I do about cooling the amps? My amp enclosure will be similar to docs, but I will have all 3 amps in the same inclosure + capacitors. The amps will be mounted where the spare tire is now. The shape will be similar to \_/ with one on each slant and one in the center. So how many fans will I need, what kind, and where do I get them?3. Will I haft to get a second battery, or can I just upgrade the stock one?

[AppleBonker]

I am planning on building my own fiberglass box. I have read alot over the past few days on how to do this and I think I have a good shot. So far I have been looking into getting 2 JL 10w6v2 subs, 2 JL 500/1v2 amps for the subs, and JL g4500 amp for the components. The subs will be in each corner like apples but slightly different position.

Questions?1. How do you think this set up will perform or would you recomend something different?2. What do I do about cooling the amps? My amp enclosure will be similar to docs, but I will have all 3 amps in the same inclosure + capacitors. The amps will be mounted where the spare tire is now. The shape will be similar to \_/ with one on each slant and one in the center. So how many fans will I need, what kind, and where do I get them?3. Will I haft to get a second battery, or can I just upgrade the stock one?

Yeah, didn't have too many options with mine due to size constraints. Check the FAQ for where I purchased my resin/glass mat. I was very happy with the quality of the product they shipped me, and it's obviously held up well this far. Now, on to the questions:

1. It all comes down to personal preference. I'm not sure if you're able to swing a deal on the JL stuff or not. But, if you're paying retail I'm going to say that there are almost certainly better deals out there. JL isn't bad, I just think they tend to be a bit overpriced for what they offer. How much are you estimating that you'll spend on the amps/subs?

2. Scrap the capacitors. They aren't needed, and this will make room for the amps. For my subwoofer amp compartment, I contemplated adding fans. It's run cool so far, so I haven't added any yet. If I was going to, I'd probably try to get 4 fans in there. You'd want two intake fans and two exhaust fans (like the two fans on the passenger side push air into that area and the two on the driver side suck air out). These can all be connected to a power source through a relay that triggers when the amps are on (wired to the remote turn on lead).

3. Upgrading the stock battery would not be a bad idea. I would say you might be at the point where it would be worth an extra battery. In my opinion, it was a lot easier to wire up my trunk with the battery in there (I didn't need any additional power distribution hardware as all of my power cables are running right off my spare battery). If you lose the caps, this might help free up space for an extra battery.

I'll obviously be here to give you any assistance I can while you build your enclosure. I'm not an expert by any means, but I should be able to help direct you through the mistakes that I made and learned from.

[Infantry1327]

As, of right now I dont have any special deals on audio equipment. But after I know exactly what I am getting, I will make one. I never pay full retail for anything. As far as price for the subs and amps I would say $2000 is the max. But that needs to include the wireing and materials to make my box. If I can get better for less, then I am down. The 2 JL subs and 3 amps comes to around $1600 retail. So I should be able to get a deal lower than that. I could probably get them for like $1450-1500

For the extra battery, how do you keep it charged. Do you just run wires to the altinator?

I am pretty worried about the size constraints as well. I play hockey so I need to fit my bag in the trunk. That is why I have decided to take out the spare and all that extra crap so I can do the \_/ shaped amps with plexy over the top in its place. then the 10's n the corners so I can still fold my back seat down and put my bag down the center. If I can acomplish this, I will only lose the corners of my trunk.
Modified by Infantry1327 at 12:07 PM 9/17/2008

[Infantry1327]

Also, how much resin and fiber glass mat, do you think I will need?

and how much did you use to make your box?

[AppleBonker]

As, of right now I dont have any special deals on audio equipment. But after I know exactly what I am getting, I will make one. I never pay full retail for anything. As far as price for the subs and amps I would say $2000 is the max. But that needs to include the wireing and materials to make my box. If I can get better for less, then I am down. The 2 JL subs and 3 amps comes to around $1600 retail. So I should be able to get a deal lower than that. I could probably get them for like $1450-1500

For the extra battery, how do you keep it charged. Do you just run wires to the altinator?

I am pretty worried about the size constraints as well. I play hockey so I need to fit my bag in the trunk. That is why I have decided to take out the spare and all that extra crap so I can do the \_/ shaped amps with plexy over the top in its place. then the 10's n the corners so I can still fold my back seat down and put my bag down the center. If I can acomplish this, I will only lose the corners of my trunk.

Ok, let me look around and see what's out there around that price range. I don't really have time to look into it at this moment, but I'll try to browse around tonight when I get home.

For the extra battery, all you need to do is connect it to the battery up front. My run of 0/1 AWG power cable goes straight from the positive terminal of the main battery to the positive terminal of the spare. Both are then grounded to the chassis (although a separate run from the negative up front would probably be a better idea).

If you're concerned about size, why not do a single 12"? If you're worried about it hitting too sloppy, a single 10" may work as well. If you're going to try to fit an extra battery in the trunk with two subs in the corners, it's gonna get tight. As my trunk sits, I should be able to get a hockey bag in there with the seats folded down (although I don't play hockey so I don't have one of those massive bags to test this theory out). Just something to think about...

[Infantry1327]

OK, thank you. Any advice you give will be much appreciated. Starting next week I will probably gut my trunk and take the measurements I need. I am thinking that I can build a box where the stock bose amp is, and place the battery in that corner. As long as I have the center of the trunk and can open my back seat, I will be able to fit what I need.

The measurement on the amps will probably be one of the more important things. The smaller the amps the better.

The reason I choose the w6 is because my cousin has a 12" w6 in his civic si and it sounds really good. But I have always ran 10's and I like the sharpness that the 10's deliver. I want to go with two not only for the better dynamic sound range, but the design I have in my head for the box is going to look amazing with 2 10's.

It doesnt look like it from some of robs pics, but is there any room under the back seat to put the battery?

[AppleBonker]

Wow, it seems like I keep pushing the same products. These companies should make me a dealer.

Ok, it seems that you're looking for a good sound quality sub. In my opinion, the Image Dynamics IDQ is excellent at that. You can find it here.

For amps, I really love my Sundown Audio amp, so I don't think I can recommend them enough. I'm not sure if you are dead set on having three (for aesthetics) or if two amps will suffice. If two would work, I'd look at either one of these for a sub amp:

SAE-1000DorSAZ-1500D

Then if you want three amps, I'd go with two of these:

SAX-100.2

If two amps is ok, I'd probably get one of these (although this doesn't look like it'll ship for a few months, not sure if that is a problem, but it's a completely new amp):

SAX-100.4

Price-wise that works out as follows:2x IDQ subs - $4801x SAX-100.4 - $3251x SAZ-1500D - $425

Total = ~$1230

This is how I would piece it together (remember, totally my opinion). I think the IDQ's will outperform the JL subs. They should hit a bit harder and be even cleaner. They are known as excellent SQ subs.

Having only two amps will help with the space restrictions. Also, both sundown amps I've listed there are class D, which means they shouldn't produce nearly as much heat as the g4500 you were looking at. In all, I think those two amps with that pair of subs will easily outperform the JL gear and at a cheaper price. Let me know what you're thinking and I can keep browsing. Obviously, feel free to research a bit more into this equipment and try to find reviews (I'll be most reviews will back up my sentiments). As I said, most in the car audio world will agree that JL makes a good product, but they are overpriced. A system like this should give better performance (it will certainly at least match the JL system) without breaking the bank as bad.

[AppleBonker]

Also, how much resin and fiber glass mat, do you think I will need?

and how much did you use to make your box?

Ok, I built my enclosure a bit thicker than you'll probably need to (the pressure exerted from my sub will be a bit more than yours), so you wont need as much per enclosure. However, you're making two, so you'll probably go through about the same amount of material. I'm pretty sure I ordered the 1 1/2 oz chopped strand mat from US Composites. You'll probably need roughly 15 yards of the 50" width stuff. ($48 plus shipping).

You'll also need the resin and hardener (the hardener is supplied with the resin in your order, you wont need to purchase it separately). Again, I went with the B-440 stuff from the same place. I bought 3 gallons and I have about a gallon left. You may go through 3 full gallons on two enclosures. ($97.5 plus shipping).

I would think that this should be sufficient. Before you think about purchasing, let me double check that this is actually what I bought (I'm sure about the resin, but I don't remember about the mat - may have gotten the 2oz stuff).

Also, there is nowhere under the rear seat that will house an extra battery. Theres a few inches of foam under the cloth/leather, but then it rests right on top of the body.

[iammai]

Hey Apple,

I sent you an email a few days ago. Have you had a chance to read it?

Thanks,iammai

[Infantry1327]

thanks bro, that was alot of good info. I will defenetly check those subs and amps out. Yea I still have alot of research to do and I dont need 3 amps. I was just thinking it would probably sound alot cleaner if each sub had its own amp. Plus the amp for the component speekers i will eventually get. I defenetly want to do this thing right the first time. That way if I upgrade my speakers or subs later down the line, I wont need to build a hole nother box.

So thanks and I will take everything you have said under advisement and do some research. But if you happen to come across some more suggestions, feal free to let me know and I will research those as well. The more options the better.

[Broadfield]

Just in case you didn't see it, I did a write up on a fiberglass project I finished for a customer a few weeks back. I have been glassing for over 17 years now, so if you have any questions feel free to ask or give me a call.

zerothread?id=362362

[AppleBonker]

Hey Apple,

I sent you an email a few days ago. Have you had a chance to read it?

Thanks,iammai

Sorry, I read it and just completely forgot to respond, so I'll respond here in case anyone has a similar question. While I enjoyed building my enclosure and I'm happy with how it turned out, I don't think I'd be willing to make one for someone else. It's not that I'm lazy or anything like that. It basically comes down to what I said earlier about not being a pro at this stuff. Mine turned out ok, but it could certainly be much better. To be honest, I'd rather people on here get one from someone who has done this for a while and will do an awesome job, rather than an acceptable one. I'll offer any advice I can (as little as it may be) to those wanting to build their own, but I don't want to accept payment (even if it is only for the materials) from someone and not have the enclosure turn out absolutely perfect. There may be other members on these boards that would be willing to make something very similar for you (maybe check with Broadfield - who posted right above this). If he's been doing this for 17 years, I can absolutely guarantee he'd do a better job. I'm not trying to put myself down, but I want people to get better quality than I have if at all possible. Hopefully this makes some sense. On the other hand, if someone is in the Chicagoland area, I'd be willing to help them out in person if they wanted. Sorry, and I hope this doesn't seem like a shot or that I'm blowing you off about it. If my skills were significantly better, I'd be all over this!

On a side note, if you were looking for someone to make a box and have your friend deliver it to you, it looks like Broadfield is in Normal which can be made on the way back to where you're at from Chicago. If he needs a car to work with, I might be able to head out there and let him use mine to get the fitment right.

[AppleBonker]

So thanks and I will take everything you have said under advisement and do some research. But if you happen to come across some more suggestions, feal free to let me know and I will research those as well. The more options the better.

If I think of anything I will certainly let you know! Also, obviously you can get much better advice or pointers when you get stumped by talking with Broadfield. I don't want to put myself down, but looking at that project he completed, I'd never be able to accomplish anything that wild at this point in time. Given about 5 more years of practice, maybe (but even then not certain). I'll help where I can, and give the best advice on what I know, but there are definitely better resources out there. If I don't know the answer, though, I wont BS you and pretend I do.

[Infantry1327]

Ok I was looking into the amps you reccomended. I like them, but because I want to eventually enter my car in shows I want more of a name brand. So as far as the amps, I think I know which ones I want.

Alpine PDX 1.1000 http://www.soundsolutionsaudio...id=78

Alpine PDX 4.100http://www.soundsolutionsaudio...id=74

Both those amps have gotten really good reviews. But for the 1000, can I bridge that to both my subs and have it run them both? would that mess up the sound quality at all?

I am still undecided on the subs, but if I bridge them to the one amp. I will probably need something around 500 RMS

[Broadfield]

You can absolutely run multiple subs off one amp. You just have to make sure that the final impedance load is correct for the particular amp you are using. In the case of the PDX, they put out the same power at 2 ohm as they do at 4 ohm. So it's not to big of a concern.

[AppleBonker]

Ok I was looking into the amps you reccomended. I like them, but because I want to eventually enter my car in shows I want more of a name brand. So as far as the amps, I think I know which ones I want.

Alpine PDX 1.1000 http://www.soundsolutionsaudio...id=78

Alpine PDX 4.100http://www.soundsolutionsaudio...id=74

Both those amps have gotten really good reviews. But for the 1000, can I bridge that to both my subs and have it run them both? would that mess up the sound quality at all?

I am still undecided on the subs, but if I bridge them to the one amp. I will probably need something around 500 RMS

I am definitely familiar with both of those amps. I currently have a 4.150 and 2.150 in my car. My last car had a 1.1000. It's hard to compare the Alpine to the Sundown, since I never had both at the same time to swap (and my sundown produces three times the power). Having said that, I'd probably give the nod to the Sundown on the mono side. The multichannel amps are excellent, and I still love the Alpines. It would probably be a toss-up for me between the Alpines and Sundown, but the Alpines are stackable which I wanted to conserve space in my trunk. They're also relatively small amps that pack a punch. Plus, I think the Alpines just flat out look good, so as a show piece they will be excellent. Since the price and performance are probably fairly similar, I'd say the Alpine amps should be a good choice (maybe try to find the Alpine 4.150 to give you a bit more headroom though, extra power is always good).

As far as wiring the subs, you can run both off one amp. The Alpine you mentioned will push 1000 watts RMS to a one-ohm load. If you get two dual four ohm subs, you can wire them down to one ohm. That way, each sub would be seeing 500 watts RMS. When I had my 1.1000, I was running it at one ohm so I can assure you that it is stable at this impedance.

[AppleBonker]

You can absolutely run multiple subs off one amp. You just have to make sure that the final impedance load is correct for the particular amp you are using. In the case of the PDX, they put out the same power at 2 ohm as they do at 4 ohm. So it's not to big of a concern.

I believe all of the subs discussed in this thread were dual four ohm, but you are correct. With this amp, you can run a pair of dual two ohm subs so that the amp sees a two ohm load and they should run exactly the same.

[Infantry1327]

Wow that was fast and good info. I knew you could run two subs off one amp. I used to have to older 10" alpine type r's in my toyota tacoma, running off 1 1500watt fosgate amp. I just wanted to make sure that I will still get the same performance. Even though the 1000 is pricey, it will still be alot cheeper than buying two decent amps for the subs and a third amp for the components. I didnt realize untill after I posted before that they made a 4.150. So I will probably do that.

Now for the subs, what do you think of the SWR 1022D. Or should I go better. I loved the way my old typr r's sounded (until I blew them after 2 years)

Alpine SWR-1022D (TYPE R) http://www.sonicelectronix.com....html

[Infantry1327]

or the swx 1042d http://www.sonicelectronix.com....html

[AppleBonker]

Wow that was fast and good info. I knew you could run two subs off one amp. I used to have to older 10" alpine type r's in my toyota tacoma, running off 1 1500watt fosgate amp. I just wanted to make sure that I will still get the same performance. Even though the 1000 is pricey, it will still be alot cheeper than buying two decent amps for the subs and a third amp for the components. I didnt realize untill after I posted before that they made a 4.150. So I will probably do that.

Now for the subs, what do you think of the SWR 1022D. Or should I go better. I loved the way my old typr r's sounded (until I blew them after 2 years)

Sorry if I didn't explain all that well. Running two subs off one amp will not hinder the actual quality of the system (assuming that everything is wired and configured correctly). The install is only marginally more difficult, so this would be the way to go.

Now, to the question. The Type-R is a nice sub. In fact, I'm surprised you were able to blow one. They can really take a beating beyond what they're rated for. I would say that the IDQ I mentioned earlier will almost certainly sound significantly better than the Type-R. You could probably get the Type-R to be louder, but in terms of cleanliness I doubt it would be able to keep up.

For your other option you brought up, that is a nice sub and would probably sound better than the IDQ (Type-X). I used to run the 12" Type-X (one in a sealed enclosure in my civic). In my opinion, around that price range the Type-X is one of the better subs on the market. It is NOT an SPL sub, but it is very clean and musical. The only problem with this for you is that you have to feed it. I had my Type-X running off its own 1.1000 and it wanted every bit of those 1000 watts. If you were going to run two Type-X 10's off a single 1.1000, they would be severely underpowered. The clarity might be there, but you'd definitely be lacking in the volume (and I'd be worried about blowing them by driving the amp to clipping to get volume). If you ran two Type-X 10's each off their own 1.1000, your car would be INSANELY loud. You would definitely vibrate the hell out of everything and the bass would almost certainly overpower the rest of the music.

A single Type-X 10 would probably be very nice and leave you more space in the trunk. Wow, I'm rambling but the more I think about it, you could probably get away with running two off a single 1.1000. The volume from each sub would be lessened, but combined they'd still put out a bit. Also, that link you posted to the Type-X is cheap, but that's because it's last year's model. The current one is the 1043 (when I had my 12 it was the same model year as the 10 you linked). It is a tough call. I don't think you'd go wrong with either the IDQ or the Type-X. Both will sound very good for their price point. And I just realized I probably didn't help at all with this post so I'm going to stop babbling now.

[Infantry1327]

haha, you defenetly helped me alot.

It took awhile for my old type R to blow. I was actually running two of them in a double cab tacoma. lol But they where in a sealed box that sat on my back seat. I think it was the amp that caused it. Somehow the spot where the power wire plugged in, Melted, yea Melted.

[AppleBonker]

Whoa, lucky you didn't star a fire and light that truck up. That would've been a fun insurance claim to try to push through. No doubt they would've blamed you for the damage...

[Infantry1327]

lol, yea I was defenetly lucky. But I would of just ripped out the amp and subs, and blammed it on high school punks.

[rjdmmfl1]

Just my .03,

Infantry, I understand your concern for popular namebrands, but poplar name brands don't always sound the best...

IMO, that Image dynamics sub will be crisper and tighter than the Type R Alpines... If i had to do my sub system over again, I might have gone a different way after hearing what the T2 sounds like (a bit disappointing)

I think the Alpine 4.150 and 1.000 will sound great... also, I'm noit sure on the space requirements for the Alpines, but you can squueze thopse ID into a tighter space, the bos requirements on them sealed is very low, thus giving you more room for your hockey gear!

[Infantry1327]

OK cool, thanks rob. I defenetly havent dismissed apples suggestions. I am just throwing out some ideas. It is just scary to buy a brand i have never heard of, or heard. You know any shops that carry image dynamics subs rob?

[rjdmmfl1]

check this out... see what's near you

http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/dealerLocator.php

[AppleBonker]

Hey, Doc's backing me up the IDQs.

Yeah, the Alpine's are good amps (that's probably why I'm running them, but 1000 watts wasn't enough for my sub). Anything you've thrown out will sound good. I'm with Doc though, see if you can find a dealer local to you to hear the IDQs. Authorized retailers online might be cheaper, but you don't have to tell the salesman that if you find a place to demo!

[AppleBonker]

Alpines... If i had to do my sub system over again, I might have gone a different way after hearing what the T2 sounds like (a bit disappointing)

Hey Doc, on a side note, I'll keep my eyes peeled for people selling UL12's. Not sure if you're opposed to buying used, but I've seen people sell them used for as low as about $500. And to be honest, the users who are willing to invest $1000+ on a sub are going to take care of it. I know I sure don't want to be buying another CMass sub in the near future. Although, it would require a new box, but it seems like you have connections in that department.

[Infantry1327]

there is a sho in glendale, where I will just so happen to be for national guard training this weekend. So i will go check them out.

[AppleBonker]

there is a sho in glendale, where I will just so happen to be for national guard training this weekend. So i will go check them out.

Any chance you got to check that place out? I'm assuming you were talking about being out there this past weekend (like yesterday/the day before).