anyone has experience installing tomei procams?

[niswiz]

need some help installing tomei 260 lash types camshafts.any input will be appreciated.

[bentvalves]

http://www-personal.umich.edu/...h.pdf

a member on nico translated the TOMEI pdf into english format. I realize it is sr20det, but look at the procedures to get an idea. You need a test shim kit. I recently did this and am waiting on shims from tomei for an sr20det, that is how I know of that PDF.

again - SR20 Solid Pivot (※ Not for use with N14 GTI-R ) ^^^ pdf
Modified by ks13 at 7:08 PM 4/16/2009

[niscort]

no test shims required for a ca18 lash type cams

[sjbsuperman1425]

IIRC all Tomei Procams require solid lifters, but i could be wrong.

[boost_boy]

IIRC all Tomei Procams require solid lifters, but i could be wrong.

Procams require solid lifters and Poncams does not, IIRC.

Dee

[niscort]

poncams are just a packaged set of 2 "lash" procams

procams are sold individually, as either "lash"(hyd) or "solid" profiles.

[sjbsuperman1425]

poncams are just a packaged set of 2 "lash" procams

procams are sold individually, as either "lash"(hyd) or "solid" profiles.

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003....html

after looking at the TOMEI site, i agree with niscort. there is only a specification requirement of springs and lifters for the Solid type, not the Procams only. BTW, where did you get your Procams from OP?

[bentvalves]

surely, just because its a pro-cam does not mean its a solid lifter type camshaft. I used to think that as well until looking at some online Tomei pdf's.

[mbmbmb23]

The Poncams come pre-indexed (meant to be dropped in without cam gears). The only Poncams for the CA are the 256/256 8.5's solid type.

The Procams can be had with both.

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003....html

Lash IN 256 Degree 8.50mmLash IN 260 Degree 8.80mmLash IN 270 Degree 8.80mmLash EX 256 Degree 8.50mmLash EX 260 Degree 8.80mmLash EX 270 Degree 8.80mmSolid IN 260 Degree 9.25mmSolid IN 260 Degree 10.25mmSolid IN 270 Degree 9.25mmSolid IN 270 Degree 10.25mmSolid EX 260 Degree 9.25mmSolid EX 260 Degree 10.25mmSolid EX 270 Degree 9.25mmSolid EX 270 Degree 10.25mm

[niscort]

The Poncams come pre-indexed (meant to be dropped in without cam gears). The only Poncams for the CA are the 256/256 8.5's solid type.

no.. they are lash

pre-indexed? that is from where? are the procam 256 lash cams not indexed...

they advertise the pons as a package with the gears? why?

[bentvalves]

yes I was also told that by a seller on ebay - that the poncams are sold as a set and have been "dialed" from the factory not neccesitating cam-gears

dialed = degreed.
Modified by ks13 at 11:20 AM 4/14/2009

[niscort]

I would never take tech advice from ebay resellers... Which is why I questioned it. sounds pure marketing spin..

All the cams have a timing pin, which one would hope they are all degreed to the same amount of accuracy, meaning they are all infact "pre-indexed" to the center lobes of 110/115 respectively though the CA range.

[mbmbmb23]

no.. they are lash

pre-indexed? that is from where? are the procam 256 lash cams not indexed...

they advertise the pons as a package with the gears? why?

You are correct...the Poncams are lash......I had a brain fart. I do however stand by my comments regarding the Poncams being pre-indexed.

Read here:http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003....html

And I quote:"Valve timing is opening and closing timing of intake and exhaust valve that are linking to the piston movement,　and it is expressed with the crankshaft angle from TDC or BDC of the piston. When installing new camshaft, idle stability or low-mid range torque are dramatically charged by 1°degree of valve timing adjustment that controls overlap or valve closing timing. Valve timing is usually adjusted by engine-tuner who is working on with the test driver. So as PONCAM, the best duration timing and the valve lifts are decided from torque characteristic and acceleration data that is based on huge numbers of tests both on the bench actual running. Accordingly, dowel pin is shifted to the proper position at the same time.You'll get the best valve timing without any adjustment but just a replacement of the factory camshaft with PONCAM."

[bentvalves]

^ by changing to a pair of poncams, you will have closest to optimized valve timing events or a "degreed" head.

the seller on ebay was jappartsspecialists who deal with tomei on a consistent basis.

[mbmbmb23]

I'm sure the package that includes Poncams and cam gears is basically just to sell you cam gears...or....like me....to let me drop in the Poncams and be relatively close on timing until I can get to a good tuner who can tweak the gears if need be.

[niscort]

Ok, I now agree, there is a blurb on there site regarding poncams... but the small point I was trying to make has been missed, i think.

Poncams are 2 cams, which can be bought individually as seperate procams. these are identical cams to each other.. the poncam in no more preindexed than a procam... nor any other cam in their CA range as they are all timed to 110(in) and 115(ex).. these centers may very well be the best designed timing to suit the engine. This is really the first thing you do with adjustable cam gears anyhow, is to actually dail the cams in to the factory specs from tomei 110/115, and then tune from the new actual zeros. The gears are a tool to correct the valve timing after machining, or different gasket thicknesses, as well as a tuning tool.

an interesting fwiwthe translated website version says:

You'll get the best valve timing without any adjustment but just a replacement of the factory camshaft with PONCAM."

when the original text says:ノーマルと交換すれば、適正なバルタイに合い、バルタイ調整は必要ありません。チューニングエンジンのポテンシャルとドライビングプレジャーを広く一般のものとしました。

which translates roughly to:If exchanged with normal, it is agreed that the valve timings are correct and adjustment is not necessary. The engine tuning potential and driving pleasure were widely assume to be general.

lost in translation?

[mbmbmb23]

Ok, I now agree, there is a blurb on there site regarding poncams... but the small point I was trying to make has been missed, i think.

Poncams are 2 cams, which can be bought individually as seperate procams. these are identical cams to each other.. the poncam in no more preindexed than a procam... nor any other cam in their CA range as they are all timed to 110(in) and 115(ex).. these centers may very well be the best designed timing to suit the engine. This is really the first thing you do with adjustable cam gears anyhow, is to actually dail the cams in to the factory specs from tomei 110/115, and then tune from the new actual zeros. The gears are a tool to correct the valve timing after machining, or different gasket thicknesses, as well as a tuning tool.

an interesting fwiwthe translated website version says:

You'll get the best valve timing without any adjustment but just a replacement of the factory camshaft with PONCAM."

when the original text says:ノーマルと交換すれば、適正なバルタイに合い、バルタイ調整は必要ありません。チューニングエンジンのポテンシャルとドライビングプレジャーを広く一般のものとしました。

which translates roughly to:If exchanged with normal, it is agreed that the valve timings are correct and adjustment is not necessary. The engine tuning potential and driving pleasure were widely assume to be general.

lost in translation?

Ok, so "Poncams" is their marketting term that means you get a pair of 256 Procams which, themselves, happen to be preindexed to get you a sweet powerband without cam gears. I bet the 260 and 270 Procams also would technically "work" without gears...but the powerband isnt not optimized enough....thus they dont have 260 and 270 Poncams. Who knows.

The translation....I'm sure whomever did the english version of Tomei's website didnt use babelfish. Just hire some bi-lingual

[niswiz]

there's not a lot of info on the installlation any where i look.so noone here actually uses them?i was originally going poncams as they were direct drop ins but i got the set of procams at an unbelievable deal.contacted tomei usa and even they said they couldn't help since amnuals are in japanese and that anyone with experience installing cams should get them working right.i'd still like to find sumone using them that could assits me.i haven't installed them yet as i was trying to get the management installed first.

[niscort]

All Tomei off the shelf cams for the CA are drop in replacements.. If you are certain that your set are lash cams, then there is theoretically even less to worry about.

and Yes, Ive used a few sets... no issues at all...

[niswiz]

so niscort did u use adjustable cam gears and if so what did u have them set at?

[exacyzm]

All Tomei off the shelf cams for the CA are drop in replacements.. If you are certain that your set are lash cams, then there is theoretically even less to worry about.

and Yes, Ive used a few sets... no issues at all...

I'm also contemplating using some tomei cams.

Niscort have you ever had the head align-honed when installing a new set of cams? Did you check the bore & cap clearances with the new cams installed to ensure there would be no issues?

A broken cam, or damaged head would not be a nice situation to be in after a cam swap.

[bentvalves]

no - remove factory cam, inspect for damage and if there is none drop your new cam in with assembley lube and torque to spec. Then make sure its not in bind by rocking it back and forth a few degrees.

[niswiz]

got my cam gears today.so i'm ready to install my 260/270 8.8mm lift procams. i'm using a fairly big turbo,(t3/t4,.5a/r intake .7a/r exhaust) so i want to increase low and midrange response. has anyone used these cams or cams close to these with a big turbo and adjustable cam gears? if so what timing are u using on the cam gears? thanks a million in advance.

[progman]

Quote »when the original text says:ノーマルと交換すれば、適正なバルタイに合い、バルタイ調整は必要ありません。チューニングエンジンのポテンシャルとドライビングプレジャーを広く一般のものとしました。

which translates roughly to:If exchanged with normal, it is agreed that the valve timings are correct and adjustment is not necessary. The engine tuning potential and driving pleasure were widely assume to be general.

lost in translation?[/quote]広く一般のものとしました

kouku ippan no mono to shimas***a

"The engine tuning potential and driving pleasure did the widely general thing" (my translation, lol)

I think the are saying that they set the timing to be overall better.
Modified by progman at 10:01 PM 7/17/2009

[niswiz]

i see a lot of people are asking about using tomei cams. now i'm in the process of installing mine.so since the people here has only used their cams zeroed i'll have to try different timing setting and let everyone know of my experience. so stay tuned. and if any of u out there are currently using any of the tomei procams jus hit us up and let us here of your experiences.

[sjbsuperman1425]

did you ever get them installed/dialed in? i'll probably purchasing two 260 8.8mm cams this Fall/Winter if everything goes right and just wish to know your outcome

[XTCshri2222]

I've had tomei poncams for over 2yrs. You do not need solid lifters, you do not need to dial them, and you do not and are better off not using a cam gear with a poncam.

[sjbsuperman1425]

260's aren't considered Poncams..

[Nyborg Garage]

I've had tomei poncams for over 2yrs. You do not need solid lifters, you do not need to dial them, and you do not and are better off not using a cam gear with a poncam.

Why would you say that?

Yes you do not NEED anything, as niscort says most TOMEI cams are drop in parts (I think the solid 9+ lift cams need some grinding in the head for clearance, and solid lifters with stiffer springs).

But for best performance it is always best to get your cams tuned/adjusted with a deegre wheel first, and then on the dyno, even with stock cams!

Why would TOMEI sell pon cams with adjustable gears as a kit if you were best of using stock gears?

There is no such thing as a pree indexed/dialed cam, TOMEI (or who ever) can not know what is best for your setup, it all depends on what exhaust manifold, inntake manifold, turbo, exhaust, porting, valve size (and so on) you use, and how you like your engine to "feel".

I don't think i have ever heard of anybody that ended up with cams gears sett at 0-0 after a proper dyno tune (unless we are talking about a alomst 100% stock setup, and even then you would most likely not end up wit gears at 0-0).

I totally agree with what Niscort have to say in this discussion. I don't think 256 pon cams are any more pre-dialed/indexed than the 256 pro cams, or other pro cams are.

By adjusting valve opening, closing, and overlap you can some times change the torq curve alot for your own preference (best low down torq, or best top end torq). But this needs to be done on the dyno. All though +2in, -3ex worked on a friends engine, that does not mean that it would work at all on your setup.

Looking forward to reading about niswiss testing!
Modified by Nyborg Garage at 2:20 AM 10/9/2009

[mbmbmb23]

Why would you say that?

Yes you do not NEED anything, as niscort says most TOMEI cams are drop in parts (I think the solid 9+ lift cams need some grinding in the head for clearance, and solid lifters with stiffer springs).

But for best performance it is always best to get your cams tuned/adjusted with a deegre wheel first, and then on the dyno, even with stock cams!

Why would TOMEI sell pon cams with adjustable gears as a kit if you were best of using stock gears?

There is no such thing as a pree indexed/dialed cam, TOMEI (or who ever) can not know what is best for your setup, it all depends on what exhaust manifold, inntake manifold, turbo, exhaust, porting, valve size (and so on) you use, and how you like your engine to "feel".

I don't think i have ever heard of anybody that ended up with cams gears sett at 0-0 after a proper dyno tune (unless we are talking about a alomst 100% stock setup, and even then you would most likely not end up wit gears at 0-0).

I totally agree with what Niscort have to say in this discussion. I don't think 256 pon cams are any more pre-dialed/indexed than the 256 pro cams, or other pro cams are.

By adjusting valve opening, closing, and overlap you can some times change the torq curve alot for your own preference (best low down torq, or best top end torq). But this needs to be done on the dyno. All though +2in, -3ex worked on a friends engine, that does not mean that it would work at all on your setup.

Looking forward to reading about niswiss testing!

Modified by Nyborg Garage at 2:20 AM 10/9/2009

I'm guessing the 256 Poncams are meant to be used with stock everything and were tested as such. Same tuning philosophy as the Upboost ECU's that use stock turbo, stock injectors, stock Maf, etc.