Any way for 4-cyl a/c to beat a v/6 in 0-60?

[pcpower]

topic

for ex., is there a turbo that fits on the 4-banger, and if so, would that juice up the car enough to beat a stock 3.5 SE?

if not, I'm going for the 3.5 in 2009,,,,,,,

thx!

[adidas2go]

You could with a well tuned 7+ psi turbo kit. However, cost wise, it doesn't make sense. Turbo kit - 5k, install - 1k, fuel economy will be far worse than a 3.5, engine life degraded. They only advantage I can see is, a lower insurance cost. Go for the 3.5

[Robs_altima]

I agree... Although it may be easier to build a kit given the room. With an egine build and the right fuel managment, the possibilities are very high with higher boost levels.

Example, my old Scion tC made 260whp on 8psi from a base of 132whp. Huge hump of a power curve (more usable power). 14.1 sec in the 1/4 mile on street tires. This was of course before I really started building it for more performance.....

[rjdmmfl1]

Uhh yeah, this is a no brainer... for power just get the 3.5 MT!!!!! Then, you could always turbo that and for 25K + 5K have a car car lengths faster than the G37!

[adidas2go]

It would be far easier to build the 2.5 kit vs the 3.5. You could use the Sentra SER kit and route a few pipes differently. However, the kit is still 5k from anywhere like turbonetics. The QR25DE isn't the strongest motor to hold power, internals are a must going over 10 psi.

[Robs_altima]

I wouldn't recommend turbo charging either block unless you're serious about replacing some stuff after 2 years of boosting, give or take depending on often you boost or how much abuse the car gets from piggy back tuning. The 3.5 will run low 14's maybe flat 14 with an intake and full exhaust from the engine back, maybe high 13's with some great traction. Going forced induction on an N/A car isn't something to be taken lightly. I guess you could always dump you car off after you beat the crap out of it and let it be someone else's problem….

[rjdmmfl1]

I wouldn't recommend turbo charging either block unless you're serious about replacing some stuff after 2 years of boosting, give or take depending on often you boost or how much abuse the car gets from piggy back tuning. The 3.5 will run low 14's maybe flat 14 with an intake and full exhaust from the engine back, maybe high 13's with some great traction. Going forced induction on an N/A car isn't something to be taken lightly. I guess you could always dump you car off after you beat the crap out of it and let it be someone else's problem….

exactly... that's the reason I would NEVER buy a used car... all the guys riding in used g35's and 350Z's thinking they got bargains.... they just got someone's leftovers.. kind of like marrying the high school .. why get something someone else has already run down

anyway, as I mentioned earlier, get the 3.5.. no regrets!

[Robs_altima]

Agreed.

Although, with building the block in mind... I would love to get my hands on one of those abused 350z cheap and overhaul the block with an APS system.

[PHENOMenalVinyl]

just go 3.5 if u want speed bc if u do 2.5 even with turbo ur lookin at more money n itll put more stress on the engine.......n y not get the 3.5 n just turbo that lol....the more the better n besides the 3.5 tops out at 145 if u got stick n the 2.5 is 113=gay and ull have to get an ecu if u get a turbo so itll b more money......i have a 2.5 its still fun but the 113 sucks

[Cali 2 Balti G]

exactly... that's the reason I would NEVER buy a used car... all the guys riding in used g35's and 350Z's thinking they got bargains.... they just got someone's leftovers.. kind of like marrying the high school .. why get something someone else has already run down

anyway, as I mentioned earlier, get the 3.5.. no regrets!

Why man WHy???? This thread has nothing to do with these cars - but you issue a blanket dis???

[adidas2go]

I wouldn't recommend turbo charging either block unless you're serious about replacing some stuff after 2 years of boosting, give or take depending on often you boost or how much abuse the car gets from piggy back tuning. The 3.5 will run low 14's maybe flat 14 with an intake and full exhaust from the engine back, maybe high 13's with some great traction. Going forced induction on an N/A car isn't something to be taken lightly. I guess you could always dump you car off after you beat the crap out of it and let it be someone else's problem….

Not true. Tim (the guy who built my turbo system) has 60k miles and 3+ years on a stock VQ in his 03 350z. If you boost the VQ right, its a strong block for many years

[ZeroAltitude]

Anytime I hear someone use the term "dis" it reminds me of 1996 and makes me feel young again.

[Robs_altima]

Not true. Tim (the guy who built my turbo system) has 60k miles and 3+ years on a stock VQ in his 03 350z. If you boost the VQ right, its a strong block for many years

I agree to a point…. There's a lot of variables in turbo changing a N/A engine and reliability. Tuning is the make or break deal. Give me a standalone EMS and I'll do it. Part throttle boosting with any piggy back (Greddy blue ect) only operate at wide open throttle which will result in a lean air/fuel ratio. It happens and over a long period of time you'll wear the rings out, normally after a few years of driving assuming your car is an everyday driver. I do want to turbo my coupe one day but not untill it's paid off and engine worn and ready for a build along with it, clutch, differential, the whole thing.

Like you said Addias, if you do it right and not a lot of people do. Take a company like ZPI who made turbo kits for a few cars including the Scion tC, this is of course how I know them. They were even on the show Pipes where they (Fox Marketing team) just about destroyed a scion tc motor, nothing to do with the turbo but they did some ignorant things. Anyways, ZPI put out a stage 0 kit with no computer management and claimed the engine would be fine as the ECU would correct the air/fuel safely at 5psi. Well I know 3 people who blew head gaskets after 3 to 7 months. This is the worst case scenario for turbo kits but you get the idea.

But about the post someone made about bashing the Z and the G, I think you may be reading into it too much…. I took it as being aimed towards used cars in general. You're taking a gamble on buying used sports car.

[adidas2go]

I agree 100 times over with the tunning. We kept the stock computer at 5 psi, and it did hold it. We used a wideband o2 sensor and pulled a 10.2 a/f ratio across the entire rpm. A little on the rich side, but its ok until we get the computer made by split second, which is being done at this very moment

[Robs_altima]

Sounds good.... Don't want to see our first turbo altima coupe blown up.

[rjdmmfl1]

But about the post someone made about bashing the Z and the G, I think you may be reading into it too much…. I took it as being aimed towards used cars in general. You're taking a gamble on buying used sports car.

Yeah that's what I meant, in your post earlier you stated...

"I guess you could always dump you car off after you beat the crap out of it and let it be someone else's problem…"

there are plenty of folks that do this... this is the very reason that someone sells their used sports coupe after only 1 or two years... some of them genuinely want something better, nicer, newer, faster, whatever... but MANY of them are because folks have ran the dog $hit out of the car, and then send it off to the unsuspecting used car buyer...

Why man WHy???? This thread has nothing to do with these cars - but you issue a blanket dis???

dude, you've got to stop taking things so personally, I mentioned G35's and 350Z's because this is a Nissan forum and those are the two real sports coupes/ in the Nissan lineup for the last 5 years that are available used... I'm sure you've read unnecessary jabs at the A/C in the G35 forum , heck, you've even been the initiator of a few A/C jabs yourself in the past (and I'm not talking about the poor man's G35 comment either).. be easy dude, its just chit chat

[Cali 2 Balti G]

Yeah that's what I meant, in your post earlier you stated...

"I guess you could always dump you car off after you beat the crap out of it and let it be someone else's problem…"

there are plenty of folks that do this... this is the very reason that someone sells their used sports coupe after only 1 or two years... some of them genuinely want something better, nicer, newer, faster, whatever... but MANY of them are because folks have ran the dog $hit out of the car, and then send it off to the unsuspecting used car buyer...

dude, you've got to stop taking things so personally, I mentioned G35's and 350Z's because this is a Nissan forum and those are the two real sports coupes/ in the Nissan lineup for the last 5 years that are available used... I'm sure you've read unnecessary jabs at the A/C in the G35 forum , heck, you've even been the initiator of a few A/C jabs yourself in the past (and I'm not talking about the poor man's G35 comment either).. be easy dude, its just chit chat

To the OP - apologies for the further digression.

RobI'm not taking your comments personal - I just think they are untrue - and unnecesary. If I had seen similiar comments on the G35 forum i would have the same reaction. If you think I have said something out of line quote me (including orig context).

To your comment -

If the avg g35/350Z has been abused how would you explain the fact that these cars among the highest rated, most reliable of used cars.

Even more basic than that - Rob - if you should happen to sell your car at some point - should we assume that since it was "used" - that it has been abused - see how that doesn't make sense.

I bought my used car from the family of a 59 year old man who died of an anuerism (sp) - this car was his baby. 2003 fully loaded with 7900 miles for 23k (this car was brand new) - I bought May of last year. Picked the car up in Cali and drove it to Baltimore in 3 days so I would say that I had a good feel for the car from my "test" drive.

I'm near 30k now - and have done nothing to the car but brakes and oil changes.

My example may not typical - but certainly if I did it - someone else can do the research and find a good used car.

Remember too - just like there are folks who would never buy used - there are folks that would never by New - they would rather let the first guy pay for the depreciation - and work out the bugs.

My car before the G was a used LS400 fresh off a 3 year lease - orig owner did all req maintenance including timing belt. Sticker New was 54k - I bought it 3 years later for $27k and ran it for 9 years and 90k miles - no major problems. So buying used is not how you are making it out to be - if so places like carmax, everybody and they moms certified pre-owned etc would not be in business.

Now the orig poster was talking about making a 4cyl competitive with a 6.

If you want to do an objective comparison of what you get for the dollar - in a used G/350Z vs. Altima Coupe I would be glad to do that with you on another thread - as long as it is based on fact where possible, opinion where appropriate and we have some ground rules.

[rjdmmfl1]

To the OP - apologies for the further digression.

RobI'm not taking your comments personal - I just think they are untrue - and unnecesary. If I had seen similiar comments on the G35 forum i would have the same reaction. If you think I have said something out of line quote me (including orig context).

To your comment -

If the avg g35/350Z has been abused how would you explain the fact that these cars among the highest rated, most reliable of used cars.

Even more basic than that - Rob - if you should happen to sell your car at some point - should we assume that since it was "used" - that it has been abused - see how that doesn't make sense.

I bought my used car from the family of a 59 year old man who died of an anuerism (sp) - this car was his baby. 2003 fully loaded with 7900 miles for 23k (this car was brand new) - I bought May of last year. Picked the car up in Cali and drove it to Baltimore in 3 days so I would say that I had a good feel for the car from my "test" drive.

I'm near 30k now - and have done nothing to the car but brakes and oil changes.

My example may not typical - but certainly if I did it - someone else can do the research and find a good used car.

Remember too - just like there are folks who would never buy used - there are folks that would never by New - they would rather let the first guy pay for the depreciation - and work out the bugs.

My car before the G was a used LS400 fresh off a 3 year lease - orig owner did all req maintenance including timing belt. Sticker New was 54k - I bought it 3 years later for $27k and ran it for 9 years and 90k miles - no major problems. So buying used is not how you are making it out to be - if so places like carmax, everybody and they moms certified pre-owned etc would not be in business.

Now the orig poster was talking about making a 4cyl competitive with a 6.

If you want to do an objective comparison of what you get for the dollar - in a used G/350Z vs. Altima Coupe I would be glad to do that with you on another thread - as long as it is based on fact where possible, opinion where appropriate and we have some ground rules.

And we continue to digress...

once again, the Average 350Z owner doesn't baby his car, they run the dog $hit out of it.. and why shouldn't they, its a sports car... most sports car owners aren't saying, "look how few miles I have on my car"... they are talking about canyon runs, track times, etc. If you bought a used 4 year old G with 7500 miles in it, that's 100% atypical, and i challenge you to find anything similar to that ever again in life... That's like saying because someone made it out of the hood, every young male should be able to... ... the exception to the rule doesn't represent the norm

In any case, you took one small response to someone's post and made it into something personal bringing up your car, and your situation that clearly does not represent the average used sports coupe owner. Congratulations, you've taken over the thread!

no need to digress any further, just stop taking every comment personal, you and your car was the last thing on my mind when I made that comment, I was actually thinking about burtonboarder's used 350Z...not that I need to explain to you what was going through my mind when I responded to the post... this guy ...

[adidas2go]

It is extremely naive to go into buying a used sports car, and not to assume its been beaten. A lot of times, that's a good bargaining ship. Most sports cars are built, bought, and driven, like sports cars. Its the reason of their being. Of course there are specific situations, not unlike yours, that sports cars are babied. However, more times than not, its not the case. Same goes for all types of vehicles in their particular function.

Just because they are higher rated for quality and longevity, doesn't mean it hasn't been beaten, its just a good build of car. The 300zx has one of the most bullet proof engines Nissan has ever made. It was a great sports car of its time, and they still hold up great today. Again, that doesn't mean they weren't beaten, it means they were built well.

The LS400 has no vice in this situation. Its incomparable, in the sports car status, to the G35.

[Cali 2 Balti G]

OK - there you have it - the avg used sports car has been beaten/abused - why? because Dr. Rob and Adiddas said so thats why. No matter the demographic of the owner - it has been beaten/abused.

I give up!
Modified by Cali 2 Balti G at 12:13 PM 8/16/2008

[adidas2go]

OK - there you have it - the avg used sports car has been beaten/abused - why? because Dr. Rob and Adiddas said so thats why. No matter the demographic of the owner - it has been beaten/abused.

I give up!

Did you even read my post? The demographic of owner does matter, and I addressed it. If you seriously think, that sports cars aren't used to their potential by 70% of the target audience, then you are ignorant to the situation. If people didn't want the attributes of a sports car, then they wouldn't buy one. Even my mom pushes her 325i, and shes 51. The open road has become a speedway to most, getting from point A to point B, and quickly, is the main concern behind the wheel. Go out on the highway, and count the amount of people going the posted speed limit, you wont find many. The fabric of a sports car is to be pushed, and people use it to their advantage. It happens more often than not.

The only thing you should give up on, is trying to spell my name right

[Cali 2 Balti G]

Ima get your name right - I promise.

So in your example - are you defining "beating/abusing" by those driving above the speed limit. Thats not abuse. Take this forum for example - you cant say the majority of folks here beat abuse their cars - it is the exact opposite - you cannot tell me that the avg AC, G Z owner on this forum doesnt love their car 0 and hence they will take care of it - some folks here pre-ordered and waited for months. I dont think your mom is abusing her car either. I doubt she is tracking it, racing, over-revving, stomping the breaks, drifting - neglecting maintenance etc - thats what beating a car means.

Adidas, In your earlier post - where you talk about the bullet proof drivetrain - that would suggest - even if abused - these cars are a good buy because of how well they withstand abuse.

All I'm trying to do is separate fact and truth from the rest - isnt' that the point of the forum.

Does anyone know where to get sales demographics from - it would make this discussion a lot easier. You say 70% of the target audience for these cars pushes them to their potential - that acknowledges the fact that folks outside of the target audience buy the car as well.

Rob you said yourself that you based your comment on exactly one particular car. I never thougt you were talking about me - I just happen to own the car you are talking about and as such I'm sharing my experience to the contrary. That why Im offering to help do a comparison of the cars - with real information.

I mentioned my personal examples just as examples of my positive experiences with used cars. The vast majority of my cars were used - and the majority of 350Z and G owners on this forum for example who have bought used - are not having significant probems overall with their cars.

Modified by Cali 2 Balti G at 7:20 PM 8/16/2008
Modified by Cali 2 Balti G at 7:22 PM 8/16/2008

[adidas2go]

I think redlining a car is abusing it. I think not changing your oil on your scheduled mileage is abusing it. Not getting routine manufacture inspections done on it. Anything that really puts your car in harms way, I believe is abusing the car.

[Cali 2 Balti G]

I agree 101% - as those are examples of abuse.

[Robs_altima]

Whoa… Whoa… I make 2 post about buying a used sports car and it being a risk. I did not argue that it was a bad idea and certainly not aiming it towards Z's and G's. Simply put, if you're buying a used sports car off a dealer lot, you have no idea what happened to it. Now if you buy your car off of what seems to be a good source like an old man or a maintenance freak like a few people I know, than great, by all means a good buy.

Cali, rjdmmfl1 was way more into this than I was. Why did you substitute my name into this and bash me? Go back and read my posts and leave my name out when you're looking for people to fuel your argument. I even said I'd love to buy a cheap Z to make my own, whether it's beaten or pristine.

[Cali 2 Balti G]

Robs_altima,Wrong Rob - RJDMMFL1 aka Dr. Feelgood's first name is Robert. None of my comments are directed at Robs_Altima. I didn't even notice your "username" until just now.

If you look at my comments - I actually quoted the comments I was referring to. I don't bash people - I challenge statements and ideas if I think they are incorrect.

[Cali 2 Balti G]

Whoa… Whoa… I make 2 post about buying a used sports car and it being a risk. I did not argue that it was a bad idea and certainly not aiming it towards Z's and G's. Simply put, if you're buying a used sports car off a dealer lot, you have no idea what happened to it. Now if you buy your car off of what seems to be a good source like an old man or a maintenance freak like a few people I know, than great, by all means a good buy.

Don't forget the female owners (old and Young). There are all kind of folks that buy Gs and Zs and ACs for that matter. The NICO forum is but a small fraction of them.

[Robs_altima]

My mistake..... I never checked into his name

[spockrock]

my two cents on the subject, there are two groups who buy sports cars, enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts. The first group babies their car and often do not sell their car and make up about a small percentage of the market. Then there are people who buy a car because they can or because they cannot, they abuse the car because they do not know better. Sometimes you get a good find sometimes you do not. I thought about buying a used G or Z but I did not want to deal with the potential baggage, and I did look high an low, for a used Z, but from the people I spoke to I could tell that the car was abused. I would say the large majority of people abuse their cars.

[rjdmmfl1]

my two cents on the subject, there are two groups who buy sports cars, enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts. The first group babies their car and often do not sell their car and make up about a small percentage of the market. Then there are people who buy a car because they can or because they cannot, they abuse the car because they do not know better. Sometimes you get a good find sometimes you do not. I thought about buying a used G or Z but I did not want to deal with the potential baggage, and I did look high an low, for a used Z, but from the people I spoke to I could tell that the car was abused. I would say the large majority of people abuse their cars.

in my local car club here in Cali, age range of members ranges from 20 - 44... most are G and Z owners, and they all perform regular maintenance, clean theiur car once per week, etc.. but 99% of them drive the dog $hit out of their cars via im promptu street races, track races, canyon runs, etc.... if you are purposefully driving your car to redline everyday, you are beating down your engine, and eventually your transmission with all the mis-shifts when doing canyon runs, etc... But hey, maybe my car club is an exception, and the majority of G and Z owners out there drive like good little boys, don't take it to the limit, and never red line....