Any lawyers on here? Got a question regarding a workplace situation

[pepegurr]

I work for a nationwide company and here lately the guys i work with on my crew seem to be on a headhunt, they have been looking for a way to fire me just cuz i wont put up with them talking trash and downing me, iv been working for this company for almost 2 years and now they are trying to get me for not having my cdl license, it wasnt a req. when i started but your supposed to get it within 3 months. The only problem is that i cant use the company truck to take it bc no one will go with me, they have given me 2 months from today to have it or they are going to fire me, do i have a leg to stand on should i get fired? I mean they waited 15 months after the deadline to start enforcing this on me, can they even do that?

[Jesda]

If an employer wants you out, they'll find a way soon enough.

[Frank E Bones]

Unfortunately in this country most employers can do whatever the f*ck they want to their employees without fear of repercussions.

[nissangirl74]

If you signed a contract stating you agreed to get your CDLs within a certain time period and didn't, that's basis for them to fire you. So is the two month warning from today.

[AppleBonker]

If an employer wants you out, they'll find a way soon enough.

This. And, if the company seems to want you gone that bad, is that really a place you want to be employed? It definitely sucks, but I'd start looking hard for a new gig. My last company started treating the employees like crap (at least in my eyes), so I made up my mind to move on and started searching hardcore for a new job. Good luck.

[Solar_Runner]

When you make a request for something... like using the company truck to take your test, do it in writing.

[AZhitman]

OP: Sounds like a lot of vague generalities, perceptions, and unsubstantiated thoughts.

Here's the deal: In workplace issues, you need concrete facts.

If you are required to get your CDL, get it. Is there a requirement that the company let you use THEIR truck? If not, you'd better find a way around that.

Whenever I'm conducting a personnel action or HR investigation, and I hear things like:

the guys i work with on my crew seem to be on a headhunt,

they have been looking for a way to fire me

talking trash and downing me

they are trying to get me

...I automatically stop the person and remind them that none of that an be substantiated without documentation, evidence or signed statements. It's kinda like crying "wolf".

I mean they waited 15 months after the deadline to start enforcing this on me, can they even do that?

Ummm, it sounds like they let you get away with violating the rules for 15 months and now they're tightening the noose. Get in compliance.

Keep in mind, maybe they have no choice.. Maybe an outside auditor or oversight authority came in, reviewed their records, and said, "Hey - Why doesn't this guy have his CDL?"

I also get the sense we're not getting the whole story.

[AZhitman]

Unfortunately in this country most employers can do whatever the f*ck they want to their employees without fear of repercussions.

And unfortunately in this country, most employees feel like they're entitled to a job, and should be allowed to do whatever they want without fear of consequence.

[MinisterofDOOM]

And unfortunately in this country, most employees feel like they're entitled to a job, and should be allowed to do whatever they want without fear of consequence.

YES.

[breadbox]

If its a right to work state be glad they even said anything. In VA they just tell you to go home, or if its a failed business you might show up to a locked door with a for lease sign in the window.

[Frank E Bones]

And unfortunately in this country, most employees feel like they're entitled to a job, and should be allowed to do whatever they want without fear of consequence.

Absolutely true My wife has a co-worker who is exactly like that.

[Dattebayo]

And unfortunately in this country, most employees feel like they're entitled to a job

Yep. A lot of them do think this.

and should be allowed to do whatever they want without fear of consequence.

I don't agree with this. Many are asked to do things above and beyond the call of their duties and are fired when not compliant with that philosophy. Do you think that everyone should be the employee of the month? Isn't it allowed to be somebody who just does what they are supposed to do and nothing more? It's not like companies don't abuse their power all the time or anything... I have seen it several times.

See, to me, a person in a job really shouldn't have to battle his/her way through a job just to keep their employment, and this economy seems to be making so we have to now...Putting the burden on the employee seems crazy to me, but that may be the reason I'm not a Republican.

[Zydeco]

Get fired and collect unemployment.

[Frank E Bones]

sTm[-HeavyHips]Get fired and collect unemployment.

Its the american way

Seriously though, way too many people see this as an option.

[Dattebayo]

He won't be able to, they will fight it just to be d!ck.

[skydragoness]

And unfortunately in this country, most employees feel like they're entitled to a job, and should be allowed to do whatever they want without fear of consequence.

Quite a few of my co-workers take their jobs for granted and take advantage of the owner's generosity. It's irritating to watch.

[tg]

um, maybe i'm missing something, but why the hell dont you just get your license? sounds like maybe they're doing this so you get your license and they don't have to babysit your a** all day.

[IanS]

I don't agree with this. Many are asked to do things above and beyond the call of their duties and are fired when not compliant with that philosophy. Do you think that everyone should be the employee of the month? Isn't it allowed to be somebody who just does what they are supposed to do and nothing more? It's not like companies don't abuse their power all the time or anything... I have seen it several times.

See, to me, a person in a job really shouldn't have to battle his/her way through a job just to keep their employment, and this economy seems to be making so we have to now...Putting the burden on the employee seems crazy to me, but that may be the reason I'm not a Republican.

You should take pride in what you do, and do your best to do it well. If you dont feel up to it, then you're in the wrong line of work.

People who just want to cruse along doing the bare minimum are often the dregs of society. Not always, but often, these are also the people who cause accidents, and cost the companies they work for money. They see a broken saftey valve 5 minutes before they're off, and they ignore it because staying late is not worth it to them. They notice a poorly designed gas pedal, and they pass it off to the next shift, because they just dont care.

You dont go above and beyond because the company asks you to, you do it because its YOUR job. Its your name at the bottom of the work order, or on the business card. When someone sees what you've done, you want them to know you gave it your all.

Michael Schumacher didnt win more F1 races by doing the least amount of work possible.

Sebastian Loeb didnt take the most WRC titles by doing the bare minimum.

And Volkswagen didnt build the fastest car of all time by playing it safe.

Too many people these days have gotten lazy, they expect to be spoon fed their entire lives. They seem to forget that not so many years ago, 99% of this country had to work thier butt off, not for a few more dollars on the paycheck, but to keep food on the table, or keep the roof over head.

Our ancestors worked themselves to the bone, not so we could slack off, but to give us the chance to make better.

//end rant

[infinitgkid]

You should take pride in what you do, and do your best to do it well. If you dont feel up to it, then you're in the wrong line of work.

People who just want to cruse along doing the bare minimum are often the dregs of society. Not always, but often, these are also the people who cause accidents, and cost the companies they work for money. They see a broken saftey valve 5 minutes before they're off, and they ignore it because staying late is not worth it to them. They notice a poorly designed gas pedal, and they pass it off to the next shift, because they just dont care.

You dont go above and beyond because the company asks you to, you do it because its YOUR job. Its your name at the bottom of the work order, or on the business card. When someone sees what you've done, you want them to know you gave it your all.

Michael Schumacher didnt win more F1 races by doing the least amount of work possible.

Sebastian Loeb didnt take the most WRC titles by doing the bare minimum.

And Volkswagen didnt build the fastest car of all time by playing it safe.

Too many people these days have gotten lazy, they expect to be spoon fed their entire lives. They seem to forget that not so many years ago, 99% of this country had to work thier butt off, not for a few more dollars on the paycheck, but to keep food on the table, or keep the roof over head.

Our ancestors worked themselves to the bone, not so we could slack off, but to give us the chance to make better.

//end rant

The truth in its purest form...

[AZhitman]

He won't be able to, they will fight it just to be d!ck.

Ummmm, I oppose a LOT of people's unemployment claims.

This "d!ck" saves you and other people a lot of money by keeping bums and slackers off the dole.

I do a fraud investigation on someone for stealing from the agency... they're allowed to resign in lieu of termination proceedings (because it's cheaper and simpler), and they go file for unemployment.

HELL YES I'm gonna get in touch with that person's reviewer and let them know WHY the person is no longer employed.

Don't be a PMQ. Speak only that of which you know.

[AZhitman]

Many are asked to do things above and beyond the call of their duties and are fired when not compliant with that philosophy.

"...and other duties as specified."

It's in damn near every position description I've ever read.

Isn't it allowed to be somebody who just does what they are supposed to do and nothing more?

Not if I'm a stakeholder or shareholder in that company.

Putting the burden on the employee seems crazy to me, but that may be the reason I'm not a Republican.

How does that have anything to do with a political party? Hard work and integrity are GOP-only tenets? Niiiice.

The paycheck is compensation for "bearing the burden".

If you're going to do something, do it right. Go big or go home. Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might. Get in it to win it. Don't do anything halfassed. AND every word of what FBI said above.

[Dattebayo]

Ummmm, I oppose a LOT of people's unemployment claims.

This "d!ck" saves you and other people a lot of money by keeping bums and slackers off the dole.

Yeah, sure. You're not saving or helping anyone really.

I do a fraud investigation on someone for stealing from the agency... they're allowed to resign in lieu of termination proceedings (because it's cheaper and simpler), and they go file for unemployment.

HELL YES I'm gonna get in touch with that person's reviewer and let them know WHY the person is no longer employed.

That has nothing to do with what this was about as far as I know.

Don't be a PMQ. Speak only that of which you know.

Dude, seriously, cut it out. Don't talk to me like that.

"...and other duties as specified."

It's in damn near every position description I've ever read.

It's a cop out and you know it. Fricken one-way goddamn street.

Not if I'm a stakeholder or shareholder in that company.

What does that have to do with it? Some places cut you in on shares just for working with the company, so what? It means you're obligated to do extra duties? Riiight.



You guys seriously have to be kidding me.

Most people are working for the paycheck, not for some over-righteous ideal about "going big or going home" or "if you're going to do something, do it right"... Cut the crap already. Sure, I can feel that way about what I do, but if mr. big shot boss wants to tell me to take on another job with different skill-sets I didn't get hired for and I get fired because I can't do what he told me to do well, then fighting me for unemployment is just to be a d!ck. AT least man up, mr. employer, rather than hide behind some stupid front like that.

How does that have anything to do with a political party? Hard work and integrity are GOP-only tenets?

You sound like you're a member of the "no" club. This is really all I meant with that.

I'm officially pissed now, I really don't care to talk about this anymore because I can see all too well how you feel about this. I'm done.
Modified by Dattebayo at 11:19 PM 3/13/2010

[nissangirl74]

This has nothing to do with the OP, but it is very relevant to the direction the thread went. Check it out, lots of wisdom here.

http://finance.yahoo.com/caree...rship

[IanS]

Most people are working for the paycheck,

And that is one of the things wrong with this country today. Too many people are willing to slide through life. Whats the point? Its called drive, and its what separates the men from the boys (or girls, hi Bex! ).

if mr. big shot boss wants to tell me to take on another job with different skill-sets I didn't get hired for and I get fired because I can't do what he told me to do well, then fighting me for unemployment is just to be a d!ck. AT least man up, mr. employer, rather than hide behind some stupid front like that.

There is a huge difference between "can't" do, and wont do. If you honestly cannot do something, then 99.9% of employers will understand. Im not saying there isn't bad apples but most know the difference between can't and won't.

I will agree that many companies are using the massive job cuts, and bloated labor market to cleanse their workforce. Some of them are not using the best ethics to do so, but again, bad apples.

I think this is a chance for American companies to work out some of the bugs that have made it hard for them to compete in the global market. Its time to clean house, shed dead weight if you will. In my mind, its long over due. Its time to return to darwinism. The strong should survive, and the smart should prosper. Survival of the fittest needs to be reinstated.

PS, just so you know, I am NOT a Republican, but I am a patriot.

[nametakennow]

Sure, I can feel that way about what I do, but if mr. big shot boss wants to tell me to take on another job with different skill-sets I didn't get hired for and I get fired because I can't do what he told me to do well, then fighting me for unemployment is just to be a d!ck. AT least man up, mr. employer, rather than hide behind some stupid front like that.

That's the thing, you're indicating that you would at least attempt to fill the requirement. You're correct, they can't hold you accountable for being able to do things beyond your job description, but when they do assign you something under the blanket clause of "and other duties as assigned," attempting to find a way to do what they ask of you is "showing pride in your work," at least enough so to "get a paycheck."

Frankly, both of the "big bad company" and "lazy *** worker" mentalities exist. Having a bee in your bonnet about one or the other is a waste of time.

To the OP: Definitely look into the terms under which you are employed and whether your state is a right to work state (I don't think yours is). From what you've said, it sounds like getting the CDL is your burden, not the company's. However, I'm under the assmption that when you say "CDL" you mean commercial driver's license, in which case a truck from work would seem to be required, unless there are trucks specifically used by the testing center (I know nothing about how that works, TBH). If that continues to be an issue, you need to start going higher up the food chain or to whoever the grievance contact is and state your case. Creating a trail of evidence is key here in the event that they are looking to get rid of you.

Also consider why they're looking to get rid of you. Think about what conflicts exist and what you can do to mitigate them. There's a fine line between standing up for yourself and simply being stubborn.

*Yes, I did use the colloquialism "bee in your bonnet." It's tough being this cool...

[AZhitman]

I'm officially pissed now, I really don't care to talk about this anymore because I can see all too well how you feel about this. I'm done.

...over-righteous ideal about "going big or going home" or "if you're going to do something, do it right"... Cut the crap already.

That "crap" is why some of us succeed despite unfairness, a work environment that favors the employer, a bad economy, and other hindrances and handicaps.

p.s. Does Davey need a hug?

[Jesda]

Most people are working for the paycheck, not for some over-righteous ideal about "going big or going home" or "if you're going to do something, do it right"... Cut the crap already. Sure, I can feel that way about what I do, but if mr. big shot boss wants to tell me to take on another job with different skill-sets I didn't get hired for and I get fired because I can't do what he told me to do well, then fighting me for unemployment is just to be a d!ck. AT least man up, mr. employer, rather than hide behind some stupid front like that.

What we didn't learn from Office Space is that the moment Jennifer Aniston gave her boss the finger and stormed out, someone was more than happy to replace her while wearing twice the amount of flair. Plus, she f*cked Lumberg.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Many are asked to do things above and beyond the call of their duties and are fired when not compliant with that philosophy.

I get SO sick of hearing "That's not my job" from some of my cowokers. Most of the time it really IS their job. And I do tons of s*** that's "not my job." It doesn't put me out, and often actually makes things easier for me. I work with people who are always happy to save some effort on a technicality as far as responsibilities. Even if the thing they're trying not to do is simple and quick...they'll do anything to avoid doing actual work. It makes things worse for the rest of us who work with them. I have no tolerance for it. If you're not here to work, GTFO. I work with people who are SO AMAZINGLY useless that I'd rather just do a double workload on my own than have their "help." Those kinds of people do not "deserve" a job. And if they get fired they'll argue until the ends of the earth that they've been wronged.

[AZhitman]

People forget that the best way to make sure they keep their job is to make themselves indispensible and irreplaceable.

[Bmore-coupe]

Greg, You seem to be very knowledgeable on this topic, so I will throw out a related question.

I just got fired from my employer of over 6 years. Over those years, attendance was their only problem with me. Mostly in the last 6 months because of many reasons (not making excuses, I know that they are my problems). I had health issues (all documented, and covered by FMLA) mental issues (Fiance left me and s*** hit the fan for me financially) and the straw that broke the camel's back was a lateness last week caused by my ex-fiances boyfriend slashing my tires thus making my vehicle unable to be driven. I provided a police report and pictures. They didn't care.

Now, I understand that aside from the FMLA covered absences, these are all personal problems and not the fault of my ex-employer. But it was a bit much for me to handle mentally, and it is what it is.

From a business perspective, I would have fired me too, but I had made many trips to HR to explain these issues as they occured. Once again, I understand that it is not their problem.

So my question is this, I understand that on paper, I am a terrible employee towards the end of the years I spent there. Do you think that the unemployment offices will grant me anything (I filed the day that I got fired) or are they just going to say Sorry about your luck?