Any in-ground swimming pool experts? (draining)

[AZ89two4Tsx]

Well, our pool has gotten to the point where it's pretty much maxed out chemical wise, and we've just drained it.

Question is, no one EVER swims in it, and it's just a money pit, literally now. I suggested to my dad that we leave it empty, at least for the winter, but it's a plaster pool and he's concerned it will blister, as am I. I've done some reading and can't get a definitive answer. It's dry and getting cool here in AZ so I think if it is safe, these would be the optimal conditions.

Is there any kind of sealer? I've read of painting it? Idk. Total noob here, so if anyone here has any advice, please chime in.

P.S. Pools suck.....

[AZhitman]

Got a pro if you want his #. Hit me on txt.

[samxini]

Get to work sir

[leesredgt]

lol My dad runs his own pool installation business for a living and i work for him so i know a little bit. Most people just paint it.

[Mr1der]

ummm....isn't winter in AZ kinda like normal weather?

[AZ89two4Tsx]

Well, there's hardly any humidity here and any precipitation. That's why I thought it'd be okay to leave the pool drained.

I'm just worried about the plaster blistering.

[Dattebayo]

The paint and plaster cracks because of being dry, not because of humidity. That's a whole other problem!

I would just hit it with some muriatic acid and scrub real hard, remove the old paint. Then re-paint it and cover for the winter.

[Razi]

Raise some piranhas in there.
Invite jerks over to your house and throw em in.
Very Bond villain.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Why not just fill the b**** in?

[danshaz82]

Get to work sir

this man speaketh the truth

[IanS]

Why not just switch over to salt water, instead of chlorine.?

[float_6969]

I'm a pool and spa professional. I'm certified by the APSP, and have 12 years of experience as well as many other schools and training seminars that I have taken.

I don't know what winters are like in AZ, but being empty shouldn't cause any blistering to the surface, but depending on what the freeze(if it gets that cold)/thaw cycles are like, it COULD (not likely) cause cracking. If the pool is plaster, but has been painted, the same basic rules apply, but the paint can flake off. Once again though, this is not a likely situation. If it does get below freezing there, you need to have the lines winterized by your local pool professionals, but the surface of the pool shouldn't suffer too much damage from being empty.

As for painting it now, I would wait until the spring unless you have a safety cover to cover the pool with. You don't want to paint it now and then leave it empty as the paint doesn't cure until it's had water on it and been exposed to an oxidizer and the proper pH for a few weeks. Until this happens the surface of the pool is VERY slippery, and if someone were to fall into the pool, it's quite possible they wouldn't be able to get out without help. That's assuming then didn't loose consciousness when the fell in and hit their head. I know this both from having seen it, and having experienced it myself. I slipped and hit my head last year trying to climb out of a newly painted pool and lost consciousness for approximately 30min with nobody around. Had the pool had a couple more inches of water in the bottom of it, I would have drown. Luckily I came out with only a big knot on my head, some pulled muscles in my neck, and a headache for about 4 days straight.

[float_6969]

Why not just fill the b**** in?

Because the cost to "fill in" or more appropriately, remove, a swimming pool is often as nearly as much as it cost to build the pool in the first place. A lot of the cost of building a pool is dirt removal, and the amount of dirt needed to fill the pool opening back in will be comparable in price to what was paid to remove it.

[float_6969]

Why not just switch over to salt water, instead of chlorine.?

Salt water pools still use chlorine. They just use the salt in the water to make the chlorine on site as opposed to physically adding chlorine to the water from the pool store.

Salt water pools also have a tendency to have a negative impact on the longevity of plaster/painted pools as well as the light rings, niches, and other grounded metals in contact with the water.

People also tend to fail to realize that the device used to convert the salt into chlorine has a fixed life, and when it needs replaced, can easily be in the order of $1000-$2000, depending on the brand and installation costs.

Also, the concentration of salt needed causes the Saturation Index of the water to go far into the "scale" side of the index, causing more surface and equipment damage.

The nice things about salt water pools is convenience for the customer and less irritation of the eyes and skin (the salinity of the water is close to the salinity of our eyes).

[AZhitman]

I think the issue with leaving a pool empty (in AZ) is the extreme heat for 8 months of the year...

[float_6969]

He mentioned leaving it drained, at least for the winter, so I was basing my recommendation off of that. If he's wanting to have the pool empty for longer than a few months, then he is going to have to take extra steps to protect the pool surface through the summer months. At that point, it would be in their interest to invest in a Solid Safety cover, and just leave it on all the time. If you remove the sunlight from the pool, A LOT of your chlorine consumption is decreased. He could also convert the pool over to Bromine, which is MUCH more heat tolerant. It can't be stabilized like Chlorine can, but it's also not as susceptible to degradation by UV radiation either. He could also look at mineral systems to help reduce his sanitizer consumption as well.

To the OP, is it the chemicals, or the electricity that's the concern in regards to money? Is there some sort of major repair needing done to the equipment or pool surface?

Pool chemistry is much like a car, in that if it's maintained properly on a REGULAR basis, it costs MUCH less to operate than it does if you do little until a problem develops and then you have to pay for a repair.

[PoorManQ45]

Filling it in is cheap. Truckloads of fill aren't more then a couple hundred. I'm basing this off FL pricing, of course.

[float_6969]

Filling it in isn't as simple as filling the hole with dirt. You've got to tear down the deck, walls, and break the floor up. Most pool builders tearing a pool down will also remove the lines under ground and at the equipment.

And before you ask why you have to do all of that, I'll preemptively explain why. Think of the pool like a bowl of water, sitting in a larger bowl of water, which represents the water table. Under normal circumstances, the water in the "pool" bowl is much higher than the water in the "ground" bowl and everything is OK. But if you take the water out of the "pool" bowl, and add enough water to the "ground" bowl (rain), the "pool" bowl will float. This is what CAN happen in real life. If the vessel of the pool is left intact, there is a possibility of the pool lifting up out of the ground, even if you've filled it with dirt.

In Kansas, where the water table is very high, you have to be very careful about how and when you drain a pool. I have seen pools lifted out of the ground 3 feet, then the floor blew in, the pool settled back down into the ground, but it wasn't level anymore, it wouldn't hold water, and it broke all of the pipes in the ground. All because the customer didn't want to pay us to paint the pool and decided he could save some money and do it himself.

[PoorManQ45]

I definitely understand what you're saying about the bowl floating up, but the fill should hold it down...

I guess we are odd in FL. Most people just have a concrete slab around their in-ground pool. You'd fill it in and then concrete over it. Poof, instant basketball court!

[AZhitman]

I definitely understand what you're saying about the bowl floating up, but the fill should hold it down...

I guess we are odd in FL. Most people just have a concrete slab around their in-ground pool. You'd fill it in and then concrete over it. Poof, instant basketball court!

Wrong.

Hydraulic pressure > weight of concrete. That imaginary basketball court would need a staircase after the first big rain.

And no, people don't do that in FL, because the laws of physics are still in effect in that state.

I'll type up an example of how this works later. No time right this sec...

[PoorManQ45]

I understand what you're trying to say, but that could simply be resolved by popping some holes in the bowl. This would allow any water to flow through the bowl rather then forcing it up.

[AZhitman]

Doesn't work that way, homey. You of all people should be able to comprehend that the concrete displaces water... holes aren't sufficient to equalize the pressure. Even busting it up into huge chunks won't fly, as they'll be forced to the surface if the water table rises enough. Remember, too -the whole shebang has a big rebar skeleton.

Trust me - if that worked, it'd be the de facto solution. It isn't.

[PoorManQ45]

Hmmm, Maybe I'm missing something here. The whole issue is that fluid would be creating an upward force acting on the entire bottom and side of the bowl.

By putting holes in the bowl you would be allowing fluid to pass through the bowl without building up enough pressure to cause movement.

I'm thinking of it like a piston in a caliper on a car. You've got hydraulic pressure created by the ratio of the master cylinder, pivot arm, and size of the piston(s) in the caliper. If you were to have a leak or drill holes in the piston in the caliper the other two components would still move liquid, but the force on the piston would not build up as the fluid would pass through the hole(s).

[float_6969]

Are you arguing, or trying to understand? I'm gonna assume you're trying to understand and not argue.

OK, lets work with your brake caliper example. How big of a hole, or how many holes do you think you'd have to drill in that piston so that when the pedal was depressed there would be ABSOLUTELY NO MOVEMENT OF THE CALIPER? The answer is a lot. So many in-fact, that it would be easier to remove the caliper all together.

Another factor you're not taking into consideration is how hard "drilling holes in concrete" is. Need i remind you it's rock? And in this particular instance, rock with lots of wire mesh and rebar in it for re-enforcement? It's a HECK of a lot easier to show up to the job with a backhoe and a bobcat and tear it all down as opposed to drilling enough holes in the walls and floor to alleviate any hydrostatic pressure created by the water table.

YOU CAN'T JUST FILL IT IN!!!

[AZhitman]

Typical Brien.

Why must we go through this so often?