Another Megasquirt user born today

[progman]

I'm running Megasquirt now. I would post pictures but my engine bay is a huge disaster and my camera is not connecting to my computer for some reason. I will post them later. The process was fun and I learned a lot. My car is not tuned yet but it does idle and rev. I have not tried to drive it or tune it yet. So far I think the mega squirt is a good idea for the ca18. It gets rid of the spotty CAS (they seem to die a lot) and it does away with the coils .. I have never had any trouble but I've heard stories. I had a lot of trouble with the factory engine management and my harness is from a euro ca18de and I had to mess with it to add the dropping resistors and o2 sensor wiring, Basically my stock harness is a hack and I wanted to start with something clean. Also pulling a chip out and changing it to tune gets old quick. I wanted a clean setup that I understood and knew what was what on.

I'll repost once I get into tuning the engine more. I plan to rough it in with a wide band and then rent a dyno for a few hours to get some power.n

I have about 600 dollars into this project and I plan to spend a little more- boost control mod etc.etc. About 150 of that was for the Ford EDIS stuff and getting the trigger wheel mounted. If the factory ignition system worked better with megasquirt I would think switching to megasquirt to be a no-brainer (If you have to time to research and could take down time with your car) because it would be so cheap. I don't know how much the greddy e-manage is but I paid 250 dollars for a SAFC back a few years ago. I regret that.

It's early to say but If things work out I'll be megasquirting other vehicles as well.

I will be selling my harness (sort of hacked up) with dropping resisters and igniter, socketed ECU, ka24e maf (worth anything?), CAS, coil harness and 6 coils. and a SAFC. hmm, what else don't I need anymore.. details and pictures to come.
Modified by progman at 1:16 PM 4/15/2009

[r34 gtr]

Hells yeah! High five!

[progman]

Tim,

I Have been reading a lot about tuning and without a steady state dyno it seems I have no way to dial in spark tunning. How did you do yours?

From the books I read the best way to do it is to increase the spark advance until you make max torque by advancing until you start to lose torque a little any further would cause knocking. then you back it off to when it made best torque. ..hard to do that with out a dyno... oh and the way people say to advance spark until you get knock then back off... those people are retarded imo. What did you do for your spark tables? Can you share it?

With a wide band and data logging I don't think I will have any problem getting the fuel and acceleration enrichment pretty damn close.

Also, why did you hold your throttle open for idle? I think I'm just going to use the stock idle adjustment value to pull air from the cold pipe into the manifold. My throttle cable is really messed up and has too much slack in it to hold the throttle open. If I have problems then I'm going to get a GM stepper motor and the jeep idle control system from diyautotune. Then I will be able to have perfect idle if I have problems with the factory manual valve.

[ca18detgabby]

so glad you are having some success know it has been a long road.

what can i say..... post some pics

[sjbsuperman1425]

i went to nistune.com and read some pdf. files on tuning. very imformative. go check that out. i know it said something about ignition and the knock and what not i just dont remember.

GL with everything! i'll probably end up going NIStune soon as a bigger MAF, injectors, and turbo might be on the way so if you find a good way to do the ignition and advancing report back, as i'd be very interested, but it might be worth while to rent a dyno for a couple hours and just mess with it on there.

[progman]

I just read a nistune PDF. it's the same stuff that i have read in more details in the tuning books I have. I read the basic tuning guide. Seemed like a decent reference.

Here is how to tune spark, increase timing until you or your knock detector hears knock then back it off (heavy engine strain and or damage will occur doing this)

The other way is with a dyno, increase spark advance until torque stops climbing then back it off a little bit for a safety margin.

I'm sure the experienced people will be like,, "i can hear knock fine and that's the way I do it. It doesn't hurt the engine".... those people can do what they want. I don't trust myself to hear knock or a device for that matter. I'll just find a steady state dyno and go to town.

Also in A. Graham Bell's books (he does F1 grade engines) he says that the time you hear knock it's too late.. the engine needs checked. But this is for $$$$F1 setups. and not a weekend hobby setup like us. A little knock can be tolerated for our engines. (This is also a guy that will rebuild an engine if it has over 3.2 percent blow by or some crazy s*** like that)

I'm just going to use close to the factory timing map and tune the fuel myself until I can get some dyno time.

Something interesting in the nistune guide was that they talked about knock detection via the ignition systems electronics. Something about how the electricity in the spark plug changes when there is knock. They said this was a sure way to detect knock and you won't have to rely on your ears or electronic ones.

I wonder if we can get some mega squirt support for one of those ignitions that would be worth another 600 dollars to me.

another thing to keep in mind about tuning spark tables is that you really need to keep heat in mind. Sure maybe you can do 30 degrees of timing at peak torque for a few seconds on a lame dynojet pass. But can you sit at that engine speed/load for five minutes on a road race with out grenading? you really need a stead state dyno to do it right. also for acceleration enrichment it's hard to tune on a roller non brake dyno, because the fuel "film" is too dynamic when you engine speed is changing a lot.

anyways, I can't wait to dive in and start learning. I want to put down some decent numbers with the megasquirt.

[dash]

u don't even need a dyno or a wideband to tune.Nobody builds faster imports than those crazy puerto ricans.... who have also been building relaible street monsters for years without them. Fact.

Current thread on ns.com os street vs dyno tune

I'm gonna use the same old crude d.i.y. "det cans" used by tuners for ages.Some use the inexpensive electronic type = modified hearing aidJez (popular CA18 tuner on sxoc) had full details on how to build your own diy det headphones on his old webpage. He sells/supports/uses a more elaboate electronic knock detection device nowadays

[r34 gtr]

I'm not running my knock sensor (no plug for it) so I can't comment there.

You don't need a dyno, you need a full tank of 93 and a friend to drive while you tune. Same thing as a dyno. That's what Ive done, though I am certainly not the one you want to be taking after. My ignition map is terrible, but it will get you around town. If you want email me and I'll send it to you.

Off to class, I'll check in later from under my mountain of schoolwork! AAh!! stress!!

[boost_boy]

u don't even need a dyno or a wideband to tune.

I wouldn't say that, but you are entitled to your opinion. Unless you have some knowledge of what you're doing and with a particular application, you're firing in the dark. Especially when you get up in the higher boost ranges. just because you get the car to stop breaking-up or stumbling, doesn't mean that the engine is happy and you can go out and race at will. Even for myself, I still caution my customers that because I've made your car driveable, doesn't mean that it's totally safe to go out and do W.O.T runs on a regular.

Nobody builds faster imports than those crazy puerto ricans.

That's not necessarily true either, but the folks from Puerto Rico are very good at building wicked/fast cars and they have my respect and that's a FACT. But to say "nobody" builds faster imports is argumentative and that my friend is a definite "FACT" .

As for knock sensors, I have them hooked-up, but lowered my ecu's sensitivity because the engines I tune don't knock and I'm not that conservative. If you're pushing it and it's tuned incorrectly, the knock sensor is not that hot on insurance. But remember, this is my opinion and I'll stick to my entitlements.

Dee

[dash]

I'm an old school guy that kept up with fast imports.Every time a record was set, by a PR.... When it was broken, by guess who ?At the street/strip.... same result.... rotary, 3T, 3Sthis little "dragonslayer" was a favouritehttp://i40.tinypic.com/2vkgw9v.jpg

sure things change, but my comments were all relative, for the period

my 1st turbo car was a buick grand national ~1996. Redline ~5700rpmCommon target for our clubmembers was a 10sec daily driven, fully equipped heavy pig, unopened 100k mile motor/stock transmission & converter. 30+mpg hwy.Tuned via a chip, injectors/pump/fpr, O2 volts & knock sensor monitoring.Never saw a wideband or a dyno. Revs like 5h1t Many don't know that it IS possible to accomplish more using less

[boost_boy]

I'm an old school guy that kept up with fast imports.Every time a record was set, by a PR.... When it was broken, by guess who ?At the street/strip.... same result.... rotary, 3T, 3Sthis little "dragonslayer" was a favouritehttp://i40.tinypic.com/2vkgw9v.jpg

sure things change, but my comments were all relative, for the period

my 1st turbo car was a buick grand national ~1996. Redline ~5700rpmCommon target for our clubmembers was a 10sec daily driven, fully equipped heavy pig, unopened 100k mile motor/stock transmission & converter. 30+mpg hwy.Tuned via a chip, injectors/pump/fpr, O2 volts & knock sensor monitoring.Never saw a wideband or a dyno. Revs like 5h1t Many don't know that it IS possible to accomplish more using less

I have respect for those who've accomplished alot in the performance ring without breaking the bank. I've seen the island folks do it with crappy suspension set-ups, smokey engines and all. But the fact of the matter is, though some can tune without the use of sampling and fuel monitoring devices, there's also that bunch (island folk) that has blown-up engines due to poor tuning. It's the toss of a coin or hit/miss. An injector decides to fail on dynotuned engine, equipment failure should be the blame and should be easily identified. But if said injector fails on a car that has been "street tuned", one may blame himself when in all actaulity it was equipment failure, but who is to say since no electronic devices was used to monitor critical fuel ratios at certain evnts. I personally can point the finger at some of my failures in the past on others, but there's been times when I couldn't blame anyone but myself and that's the way I prefer it to be, hence the reason I build tune and race my own toys.

I too am from the old school as well, my friend. Except for the tuning basics, I learned everything the hard way. And through my own experiences in this business, makes me appreciate those who makes big waves with a very little splash of cash. I always revert to this "to each his own". But in refernce to this particular application, some of the members from the past and now are kind of hard-headed in the fact they are not taking heed to the advice being given to the forum as a whole.

And lastly, I love grand nationals. I always did and always will, but I'm not really into american cars, even though I've owned too many Ford Taurus SHO cars.

Dee

[progman]

I agree with both of you guys. But I like Dee's approach. I already have 4000 dollars invested in my engine. I'm not going to cheap out now on a few hundred dollars of dyno time. I'm not some poor a** Puerto Rican who has no other choice than to take chances. That and I don't have the experience those guys do with tuning. "even with bad aim with many shoots you will hit"

Dee, how do you tune spark timing? do you do it on the dyno and increase spark until torque starts to drop off? do you use EGTs? are you on a brake dyno (steady state)?

One question I have now is. how do you know how long an engine can take a certain load at a certain spark timing? Is this what EGTs are for?

[boost_boy]

I agree with both of you guys. But I like Dee's approach. I already have 4000 dollars invested in my engine. I'm not going to cheap out now on a few hundred dollars of dyno time. I'm not some poor a** Puerto Rican who has no other choice than to take chances. That and I don't have the experience those guys do with tuning. "even with bad aim with many shoots you will hit"

Dee, how do you tune spark timing? do you do it on the dyno and increase spark until torque starts to drop off? do you use EGTs? are you on a brake dyno (steady state)?

One question I have now is. how do you know how long an engine can take a certain load at a certain spark timing? Is this what EGTs are for?

Not all of the folks from the island of P.R. or even the tuners that are here in the mainland are poor, but it's been the little rotaries, the 3TCs and few other cars the Puerto Rican guys drive that have delayed many of us from getting our fair share of runs because they blew-up something and caused the track to have a delay.

Dee, how do you tune spark timing? do you do it on the dyno and increase spark until torque starts to drop off? do you use EGTs? are you on a brake dyno (steady state)?

I actually tune it based on my experiences with the CAs over the course of many years. timing is kept low because the CA doesn't require a bunch of timing like the SR. I start at 20psi and work my way up to 30psi on pump gas (93 octane). I do not use an egt because though I know every engine isn't exactly same, most of the ones I build are damn close to each other which allows me to get away with alot of tuning trickery like max torque below 4000rpm for near normal driveability.

One question I have now is. how do you know how long an engine can take a certain load at a certain spark timing? Is this what EGTs are for?

Kinda like what dash says, I tune off past experience and entrust in the components I installed to at least hold-up while I put a baseline tune on an engine. Because of the way I tune, there won't be any melted pistons at 30psi on pump gas because of detonation, but one should not be running that much boost without some type of device to give you some idea as to how your engine/engine management is behaving under those exreme conditions. I have never used an egt, but since I started tuning, I kinda know what to do do. With the SDS system, it allows me to get right to the point as opposed to some of the more fancier laptop dependent systems. All tuning is crunching numbers and respecting the hardware you've chosen for your desired duties.

Dee

[progman]

Here are the pictures that I promised. I have since wrapped all the wiring

[r34 gtr]

Interesting placement of the ignition coils.

[beans33]

i do agree . i request a final picture of the engine bay/harness .

[progman]

This isn't the finished product... that will never exist. but the wires in the engine harness are neater now. I still have to clean up a lot of things neat the fuse box but I'm nervous doing it now as I might need something later down the road so I'll wait off on that. I'm about to take the turbo off so I decided to snap a few pics first. sorry for the camera phone pics.

[zero_gripS13]

hell yea man, like the intercooler setup.keep it up bet u cant wait to take her out

[The_Chosen_One]

I have a billet aluminum coil pack cover that will allow you to put the coil pack on top for sale. I could even powder coat it.

[progman]

I'm interested. Will it clear the hood and everything? let me know how much you want. thats the next thing I was going to take care of on my car. progman at prog-x dot com

[The_Chosen_One]

It should clear no problem. The coilpack probably doesn't extend higher than the PCV on the valve cover.

Im looking for $40 Shipped as is or $60 Shipped Powder Coated.

[progman]

What's your paypal address?

"This recipient is currently unable to receive money." ([email protected])

Does this thing need modified or will the coils screw into it? I'm assuming that i can drop that bracket off from it and put the coils directly on. If that's the case then I'm in. Can you make it red. like close to the factory color. I'll probably want the covers and stuff done too but my money is wrapped up in other things right now.

[The_Chosen_One]

My paypal is [email protected]

I have a gloss red that I think is close to the OEM red.

The cover was custom made by one of our members on here to fit EDIS packs. Its a straight piece with a cut for the coilpack and holes to bolt it down.

[progman]

ok, never mind with the powder coat. I want to get my valve covers and timing covers done and I want it to match so I'll hold off. I'll ship this all back to you in a few weeks

[The_Chosen_One]

so do you want me to ship you the coilpack or hold onto it until you're ready?

[progman]

oh, just ship it out. I'll just send it back with the other stuff for powder later on.

[The_Chosen_One]

Oky Doky

[progman]

did you ship this out yet?

[The_Chosen_One]

Nope todays my birthday, so its work and party time.

[progman]

I was just being sarcastic since i saw you post that while i was online. happy birthday. no big hurry on that part.