Another excuse to criticize AZ!

[nissangirl74]

Here's how the game is played:

Overspend and expand government when times are good, then when it gets tough:
Cut healthcare
Cut schools
Cut roads
Cut government workers
Then tell everyone "oh yeah we're broke lol, we need more money, elect me or your chillin gonna starve"

Reminds me of this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100822/ap_ ... al_schools

[Dattebayo]

Wow. We had a rash of school remodelings about 15 years ago here... And none of them came even close to that kind of price tag. I did notice they used some rather cheap materials in the building tho. The old cinderblock buildings they had before fared much better over 30 years than these did...

[nissangirl74]

I would much rather have $578 million dollars worth of good teachers than I would a fancy new building. That's just me though.

[Dattebayo]

For $578 mill I should expect them to be hot teachers from Europe.

[nissangirl74]

You would.

[Dattebayo]

Seriously! They pay, what... $33K/yr on average for a teacher? Sure they get 2 months off, but it's not like they don't have to come up with a lesson plan for the year.

That's salary for 17,515 teachers. ZOMG

[Jesda]

Teachers get shafted in some areas (but several do reasonably well with very generous benefits and heavily discounted financing for their mortgages and automobiles).

I'd rather stick a kid in a shoddy space with a well-trained educator than a shiny room with a bunch of failures in charge of the ship.

[nissangirl74]

Average for AZ is $44,672 and we are low on the list. Not to diffuse your point though, it would still pay for a lot of teachers.

http://teacherportal.com/salary/Arizona-teacher-salary

[PoorManQ45]

There's NOT "plenty of money".

As a state employee, we're on 12 mandatory unpaid furlough days this year. Hiring freezes mean that we're all doing twice as much (our agency is a 2400-job agency, we've got 1650 employees right now).

The "crunch" hit everyone, and those who think there's a simple solution are morons.

With that said, that was painful to watch. I've never frozen up so bad that I couldn't BS my way through to a logical ending point. Part of me feels bad for her, since a person's speaking ability isn't necessarily an indicator of how good a Governor they are. HOWEVER, it's a bit disconcerting regardless.

Sorry, by me saying there is "plenty of money" I meant that the government is receiving a large amount of money, but they are managing it poorly.

[Red coupe]

I understand from reading this thread that it is considered "childish" for me to expect re-organization of funds. Yes?

Gee, that is disheartening that you would just accept that this is the way things are. I guess it's too much to expect accountability in the system?

Gee, ok fine.

So since you have the plan how do you fix the whole thing and make the government spend efficiently.

What is more then that... If you know how it can be fixed why the hell haven't you done it yet?

[TOMMY VERCETTI]

[themadscientist]

Wanting to punish illegal behavior is not racist. If the Canadians start flooding over the border we need to pull over hockey fans.

You apologists should look into how Mexico polices its southern border against central americans.

[wingFeather]

Average for AZ is $44,672 and we are low on the list. Not to diffuse your point though, it would still pay for a lot of teachers.

http://teacherportal.com/salary/Arizona-teacher-salary

Wow holy nuts!!! That is actually higher than my field with 15 years of experience!!! Time to quit my Masters learning & go back for an Ed BA!!!

Here's how the game is played:

Overspend and expand government when times are good, then when it gets tough:
Cut healthcare
Cut schools
Cut roads
Cut government workers
Then tell everyone "oh yeah we're broke lol, we need more money, elect me or your chillin gonna starve"

Sad but true. What's worse is that I've seen members here regurgitate the same corrupt political koolaid... "why Republicains wanna cut spending when my roads is crumbling?" UGH.

[IBCoupe]

You apologists should look into how Mexico polices its southern border against central americans.

Because Mexican policies have so much more to do with the way we craft our policy than Constitutional limitations on our government.

[dusred]

You apologists should look into how Mexico polices its southern border against central americans.

Because Mexican policies have so much more to do with the way we craft our policy than Constitutional limitations on our government.

The Mexican government has been bitching up a storm about our immigration policies and enforcement. Hypocrisy anyone?

[IBCoupe]

The Mexican government has been bitching up a storm about our immigration policies and enforcement. Hypocrisy anyone?

Ah, so when Mad wrote "You apologists," what he really meant to say was "All you Mexican governments." Is that it?

[themadscientist]

No, I meant anyone who would aid and abet breaking the law then try to minimize with rhetoric.

The Mexican government is as culpable as the United States government and business in the exploitation of workers both legal and illegal. If you want to come here, do so legally. If you don't, the consequences visited upon you are of your own initiation. If you need a rigid border standard, simply mirror theirs. It's not their job to subsidize central America. Similarly, it's not America's job to subsidize them.

I beleive strongly in national sovereignty and that includes control of your borders. Mexico agrees with strong border control except when it's them trying to hop the fence. NoNo

[IBCoupe]

I think I prefer to approach border and naturalization policy from an American legal perspective, rather than a Mexican one. But that might just be personal taste.

[ScrapMetal]

Wanting to punish illegal behavior is not racist. If the Canadians start flooding over the border we need to pull over hockey fans.

Whatever happened to "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's unalienable rights?

According to your ideology, I should be pulled over by law enforcement officers just because I look Hispanic even though I came to this country legally and am now a U.S. citizen? You're right about that not being racist but it is profiling. You seriously don't see anything wrong with that?

I'm all for getting all the illegals out of here but not by punishing people who did come here legally by having to force them to carry their "papers" around just because they look a certain way.

SB 1070 to me just sounds like some lazy half assed idea some suits came up with because they couldn't come up with a better solution. "Hey, let's just stop all the people who look like messicans and force the legal ones to carry around their green cards", good plan jack a**.

BTW, I could care less how a corrupted country like Mexico handles their border problems. This is the United States, I really expected better solutions to come out of the best country in the world.

[themadscientist]

Whatever happened to "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's unalienable rights?

They broke the law and are not citizens. Become a citizen the right way and obey the law.

According to your ideology, I should be pulled over by law enforcement officers just because I look Hispanic even though I came to this country legally and am now a U.S. citizen? You're right about that not being racist but it is profiling. You seriously don't see anything wrong with that?

You know nothing of my ideology. You cannot be pulled over simply because you are hispanic. If you are then the police officer has overstepped his bounds and there are avenues to deal with him. Profiling happens all the time and it's wrong every time. I live in Japan legally and I carry papers. The police can unapologetically profile me and I do have to show those papers or I will be arrested. I can be held for over twenty days with no charges filed, no phone call. Roundeyes drop out of sight all the time.

I'm all for getting all the illegals out of here but not by punishing people who did come here legally by having to force them to carry their "papers" around just because they look a certain way.

We are in agreement that profiling is wrong. This is moot.

SB 1070 to me just sounds like some lazy half assed idea some suits came up with because they couldn't come up with a better solution. "Hey, let's just stop all the people who look like messicans and force the legal ones to carry around their green cards", good plan jack a**.

If you are a greencard holder, you should have to carry it. If you are a citizen and you get stopped without your licence do you think Johnny law is going to say "well you're a white guy wearing abacrombie and fitch, we'll just let you go."

BTW, I could care less how a corrupted country like Mexico handles their border problems. This is the United States, I really expected better solutions to come out of the best country in the world.

I expect better solutions as well, but they are just enforcing federal law, take it up with Washington.

The length of time it takes to get legal and the expense of it it ridiculous. Please share having gone through it; people should know. One of the reasons illegals piss me off is because those that did it the right way, the hard way are being disrespected.

I don't like how easily America has allowed the true players to turn it into a natives vs illegals fight. I have worked with illegals and they were trying to do the same thing I was, put food on the table, and they work friggin hard! Who really wins with the current situation? You suggested you know my ideology. You are wrong so let me tell you what it is.

1. The Mexican government is corrupt and it cannot do its job providing Mexicans a functioning country where they can earn a living free of crime and violence in their own country.

2. Rather than fix Mexico, it's easier to encourage their people to go to America, earn money there and send it back.

3. The American government is corrupt and does not value its people, Mexico's people, anyone really as long as they get to stay in power.

4. Business hates empowered labor and it wants to maximize profits.

5. It buys government, and encourages illegals who will work for chump change and not complain to displace Americans who want a living wage and will fight back.

6. The American workers are unemployed and stuck on the government tit, the illegals are exploited but funnel money back home, the businessmen make money, and politicians keep power.

The illegal invasion is not supply push, it's demand pull. The exodus back to Mexico when the recession hit proves my theory. Deporting illegals is not needed, they deport themselves when the reason to come, jobs, is gone. America maintains a shadow workforce not because Mexicans want it, but because both government and business want it.

[ADDirishboy]

Holy jesus christ, I am SO sick of people saying that cops are gonna start pulling people over just because they are hispanic. That's not what the bill says!

Holy s***, read the bill you morons.

[dusred]

Holy jesus christ, I am SO sick of people saying that cops are gonna start pulling people over just because they are hispanic. That's not what the bill says!

Holy s***, read the bill you morons.

You can thank good ol' Barry for that.

[ScrapMetal]

They broke the law and are not citizens. Become a citizen the right way and obey the law.

When I said that I meant it for the ones who are here legally. I "should" have the right to walk around with out having to carry my birth certificate, green card, or naturalization certificate. Drivers license or ID card is another issue which i do agree you should have on at all times, but having your driver license on you is not proof of legal status in this country.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSzxjd3B ... 1&index=46[/youtube]

Quote from Mexican-American truck driver: "I don't think it's correct if I have to have my birth certificate with me all the time"

I gotta agree with him.

You know nothing of my ideology. You cannot be pulled over simply because you are hispanic. If you are then the police officer has overstepped his bounds and there are avenues to deal with him. Profiling happens all the time and it's wrong every time. I live in Japan legally and I carry papers. The police can unapologetically profile me and I do have to show those papers or I will be arrested. I can be held for over twenty days with no charges filed, no phone call. Roundeyes drop out of sight all the time.

If you were a legal citizen of Japan or even born in Japan would you still have to walk around with your birth certificate or naturalization certificate? I ask because I know Japan has a parliamentary system and their laws and regulations are different than the United States'.

In Cuba (where I'm originally from) you have to walk around with a national ID card and police have the right to ask you for proof that you are actually carrying it even if you've done nothing wrong, but I expect that from a communist country with a dictator who does whatever the hell he wants.

If you are a greencard holder, you should have to carry it. If you are a citizen and you get stopped without your licence do you think Johnny law is going to say "well you're a white guy wearing abacrombie and fitch, we'll just let you go."

If you're a greencard holder, I don't see why you should have to carry your greencard 24/7. If it's for a job or for court purposes then I understand, but if you get pulled over for a traffic violation your drivers license should suffice. If you get stopped without your drivers license while driving, then yea it doesn't matter what color you are, you're going to jail. Though you're drivers license is not proof of citizenship. I can't go to the Dept. Of State or the Social Security office and show them my drivers license as proof of citizenship or legal status, they will send you back home(your house, not your original country).

I expect better solutions as well, but they are just enforcing federal law, take it up with Washington.

The length of time it takes to get legal and the expense of it it ridiculous. Please share having gone through it; people should know. One of the reasons illegals piss me off is because those that did it the right way, the hard way are being disrespected.

I don't like how easily America has allowed the true players to turn it into a natives vs illegals fight. I have worked with illegals and they were trying to do the same thing I was, put food on the table, and they work friggin hard! Who really wins with the current situation? You suggested you know my ideology. You are wrong so let me tell you what it is.

1. The Mexican government is corrupt and it cannot do its job providing Mexicans a functioning country where they can earn a living free of crime and violence in their own country.

2. Rather than fix Mexico, it's easier to encourage their people to go to America, earn money there and send it back.

3. The American government is corrupt and does not value its people, Mexico's people, anyone really as long as they get to stay in power.

4. Business hates empowered labor and it wants to maximize profits.

5. It buys government, and encourages illegals who will work for chump change and not complain to displace Americans who want a living wage and will fight back.

6. The American workers are unemployed and stuck on the government tit, the illegals are exploited but funnel money back home, the businessmen make money, and politicians keep power.

The illegal invasion is not supply push, it's demand pull. The exodus back to Mexico when the recession hit proves my theory. Deporting illegals is not needed, they deport themselves when the reason to come, jobs, is gone. America maintains a shadow workforce not because Mexicans want it, but because both government and business want it.

I have to agree with everything you've said here and it was very well written.

For those that don't know the steps to becoming a U.S. citizen, here's what I had to go through (I became a citizen in 2004, I'm sure things have changed and it has becoming way more expensive).

First you have to fill out a application to become a citizen and then wait about six months for them to get back to you. You need to get this application at your local Dept. of Homeland Security office by appointment only and even then get ready to spend half a day waiting in line. You also have to have been legally living here for 5 years and be at least 18 years old. Read, write and speak English. Then you have to take all your original papers from your country of birth and have them translated into English by a notary. Then you have to take your photographs(kind of like for passports), be fingerprinted. Then you have to be interviewed and take the test which consist of ten(yes 10) super easy questions such as "Who's the governor of your state" and "Who's the current President", sounds like a joke I know. The test is so simple it lead me to believe that this is just another way for the government to make money. All of this cost me around $400 back in 2004, last I heard it's around $700 now and if you get a lawyer like some people do to fill out all the paperwork for you it could easily run into the thousands. Then you take the oath and that's it, welcome to America.

It's fairly simple to become a U.S. citizen if you don't have a criminal record and have the money to do so. It's just a really long process that consist of waiting, lots of waiting and paper work written in "Lawyer Language" and that's where most immigrants get confused.

[AZhitman]

You did it right and I commend you. I have no respect for anyone who says, "It's too hard" or "It's not fair". SCREW THEM. All good things take effort, and guess what? Living in America is WORTH the extra effort.

But seriously - Stop listening to the hype propogated by morons. No one's getting "pulled over for looking Brown".

Here's a hint: Look at the demographic of the people freaking out. Subtract all the illegals from that group (they have no right to complain). Now subtract out the ones who have something to gain by an open border (their opinion is biased). Subtract out the ones who haven't read the law (they don't know what they're talking about).

Guess who's left?

One wanna-be activist and a couple spoiled B- law students wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt and thinking they're at the forefront of a "revolution".

p.s. We've hammered this issue ad nauseum in the Politics forum... Good stuff. I don't want this thread to turn into an SB1070 discussion, so let's go back to making fun of (or defending) the Governor.

[ScrapMetal]

Thanks Greg, it's definitely not as hard a some people make it out to be(it's not hard at all). You can even take the citizenship test in Spanish believe it or not but you had to have lived here for at least 20 years as a legal resident (believe it or not there are people who have lived in this country for 20+ years and still don't speak English). Living here is worth the extra effort, I've lived in both Cuba and Panama and after you've experience living in places like those(living, not visiting for a week) you really get to appreciate what a great country this is.