after a long time..now im in need of help....

[liquid_cool]

..it all started a couple of weeks ago...my s13 ka24de just randomly shut off..like you turned it of...verry strange..ive been running the same set up for the past year or so with no issues what so ever..

KA24DE ...NA13:1 CR.supertech pistonsBC stage 3 cams 272'sduelsprings & Ti retainersOEM rodsarp studs all aroundaluminum drivelinewelded oem diffMSD 6A with blaster 2 coil.topfed fuel mod with 315cc denso'sfuel cell with 8AN line to mallory reg.6An line to rail.adle air deleteegr deleteheater core deleteac deletevacume crap from inside of intake many delete and coolent lines.autometer guages,spedo,tach,oil,water..ect.

this is the set i have ran for some time like i said..now since the random shutdown i have replaced the following with no results.

distributorcoilsparkplugs and plug wiresi re-ran all my grounds and fully tested my MSD box by both test methods.i went throu the harness with a fine tooth comb..nothing.replaced both coolent sensors on the intake.

after all that its still throwing an ignition code for the dizzy...any idea's from here would be helpfull..this is driving me insane...lol

[IanS]

If it just flat shuts off, then its not pulling fuel, otherwise it would diesel down, and I dont think its loosing spark, as there will be a small amount of compression firing (especially at 13: 1 comp), so that leaves both.

Your ECU may be loosing power, the ignition switch could be failing. Or you could have a loose power ground wire for the ECU.

Have you followed the FSMs troubleshooting procedure for the code you are getting? I dont remember exactly how Nissan ECU protocol works, but if your crank position sensor is cutting out it could cut both fuel and spark, the same could also be true of the Cam angle sensor.

How often does it just shut off?

[liquid_cool]

ive tested everything i could possibly test..both dizzys i have are good..and i just replaced the ignitor today...im gona run the car in a few to see if it does it again...ill repost then.

[compactfean]

When my car " just died" my key ignition wires somehow fried. Just my $.02

[OutToWinPAHC]

CAS or CPS maybe?

[liquid_cool]

whelp!...guess i found my issue...and it seems i dint take my own advice and investigate like i should have...

my lower timing chain guide on the left side desinigrated a few weeks back...(the strait one) for those in riolinda...lol....anywho..the pile of crap shot up and smacked the upper tentioner and ripped it off...not thinking,and investigating like i should have...i bought a new guide,repair'd the threads for the tentioner..and slapped it together....what happend when the guide came loose the intake cam skipped a tooth..sending the valves into my lovly supertech pistons where they happily made some large 1/8th inch marks...now it gets really good!...well when that happens..something had to give!...lucky for me..it was just the pistons...now...there not broken..just mared as if someone did a s***ty job clearencing them...looks the same....after i found out the valves hit the piston..i started to pull valves to inspect them and turn them with a drill to see if they were bent.....not one was bent!.....if this was a ford , mopar, chevey or any other motor;id be on the phone lookin for a new block rite now..

this is a good example of what not to do if you have a timing chain issue...and a great example of how good these engines hold up to damage..

moral of this story...i knew better...but did not heed my own advice..and this is how we learn..the hard way ..

what was cousing my motor to randomly shut down...was when the engine reached operating temp..the steam would kill my ignition spark in the cylinder...thank god i did not load the cylinder and throw a rod throu the block....lessen learned.

thanks folks for the imput.

[pungkiteater_671]

dammm gary glad u found the prob lol well hopefully both of our cars will be running real soon lol btw its lloyd haha

[liquid_cool]

sup Mr. santos!...did ya drop the rebuild in yet?and did ya find a new mani?

[pungkiteater_671]

yes i actually just got done today !!! just need to put the drive shaft and ac ps and put fluids in and im done lol coulda finished it today but it got to dark and to cold lol

no i dont need a new mani i need a new exhuast lol

oh yah dude when i dropped my motor in i broke the purple clip in back of the mani is there any way i can fix that ?? like the plug is fine but where i plug it to it broke off the intake mani thanks again !! happy holidays bro
Modified by pungkiteater_671 at 1:28 AM 12/19/2009

[liquid_cool]

that plug i believe is for the idle air controll crap..you will need to go junk yard diving ...ither a similar 240..or a maxima will have one...pain to get to thou...or you can do the delete and not bother with it anymore..up to you bro.

[pungkiteater_671]

what if i just ghetto rig it lol splice the wire and soter it or electrical tape it to where it plugs lol its the iavc something like that

[liquid_cool]

you would be better off just junk yard diving for one bro...there easy to find on the maximas...finding a 240 sumpin or other with one will be PITA thou...thats kinda a janky fix man..you should wait to do it the correct way..so you wont have issues later.

[rioredstang]

Hi, liquid_coolI am running the same set up in my 240 race car. I have not changed the injectors yet. Did you have a problem with it running lean? Some tell me that stock injectors will work with na motors. I have a Emance ecu, wide band ego. I have only a few laps on it has a rattle in it. So I have pulled it back down and rechecked everyting and found #2 piston was .003 smaller than the other (3). I have sent it to Swaintech to have it coated to get it back to spec.I have Eagle rods in mine. Does the stock rods not worry you? We have a lot invested to have a rod or bolt destroy our motors. I have been playing with some old cranks to try to lighten them. What are your idea's on this? I used s set of Arias pistons from a ka24e in my motor. I have unshrouded the valves in the head and remachined the pistons so they don't hit the head. My math on these pistons come to 13.5:1 compression does this sound right to you?

I think the code 21 is because the ecu is looking for a feed back signal from the igniter. Since we run MSD it doesn't see it. I have my harness fixed so I can run MSD or stock ignition. I have had problems with MSD before and it makes it easy to trouble shoot this way.

I have been working on a ITB set up for mine. After I get a few laps and get the tune close to right I will change to the throttle bodys.

[liquid_cool]

hay bro...i did change my injectors....i run a fuel cell with 8AN lines to my mallory regulator..from there i run 6AN lines to my topfeed rail i got from ebay...the injectors i use are from a toyota corrola GT twin cam..there 315cc denso style injectors..perfect for NA ka's..i actually run a little in the rich side..where i want to be @50psi too....my pistons are supertech 10.5:1's with a deced head and block..thats how we bumped up the cr...yes there was minor clearencing to do on the pistons before i sent em back to get recoated..but it was really minor.....as far as the stock rods...there good man..there shotpinged from factory...that adds to there atomic desity..its a proven stregthening technique...at least they have been proven good for 300hp..lol..after that...manly H-beams or better..lol..my problem after a while of searching my ignition system..was actually a timing misshap...about 2 weeks ago...i went to a meet with some friends..and lost oil-pressure...turnes out..while driving there..my left side timing chain guide broke off and shot up taking out the upper timing chain tentioner..cousing me to loose pressure when it then shot down and nocked off the oil sump tube..lol...needless to say..this coused the upper chain on the intake side to skip a tooth..sending just the intake side valves slamming into my pistons.....i replaced the timing chain guid..but screwed up and did not dissasemble the motor like i should have...when stuff like that happens..something must give...luky for me..i run a odd set up..soft top pistons and a full copper head gasket with a sealer agent...so the pistons soaked up the force and the head studs gave just enough give to slightly break the seal from the headgasket and my Orings around the cylinders....this..coused the car to randomly shut off when i got warm and the coolent would spray into the cylinder and polute the air fuel mixture...becouse it only did it when it was at operating temp..i thought it was the ignition system...on really cold days..i could run it for the whole day and not have an issue...on warmer days..5 mins and it would die..lol..there were no head gasket sighns, no smoke...nothing obvious to diagnose it...i found it out by chance...it was a total PITA

[liquid_cool]

allso..if your playing with the crank man...have it balanced with your whole assembly..pistons rods and crank...this will let you be a happy rev monster...if your going itb's..then dont bother tuning now..as you will have to retune each carb anyways..and its PITA!...to tune ITB's rite will take you at least a week to set base fuel flow..and a good month to dial it in ....you have to be really good to get them all at the same flow rate..or you may run fat one one while running lean on another....allso..MSD makes there tack adapter that will send feedback to the ecu for our cars..eliminating that slight missfire at idle we get with the ka system..good luck..and keep me posted on that itb set up..id like to see that.

[rioredstang]

I saw your pics of the pistons. Did it hurt the ring lands? With the dish pistons I don't see how they got that much compression. What does the heads cc. I have mine at 48cc. I run a dome piston. If you remove the metal from around the valves ie. unshroud the valves you won't have detonation in that area.

[liquid_cool]

i run a decked head and block bro...with a .30 copper head gasket..if i ran dome tops i would have to run 120+ fuel..forget it..lol..anyways..i had my machine work done at HBR (Headers By Rick) here in vegas...if ya look on every dragster running pro-to-topfuel..you will see his machine shop decal...he's magical in his workmanship....after number crunching ..thats what he came up with .

[liquid_cool]

I saw your pics of the pistons. Did it hurt the ring lands? With the dish pistons I don't see how they got that much compression. What does the heads cc. I have mine at 48cc. I run a dome piston. If you remove the metal from around the valves ie. unshroud the valves you won't have detonation in that area.

no it did not hurt the ring lands...as far as removing the metal seats for the valves..ill pass....having my valves impact aluminum with my springs would be a travesty to say the least..

are you gona change the oem injectors out yet?...how are you tuning your car?..wideband and safeC?

[seang]

I remember Bigvinnie saying that his stock 270cc injectors maxed out at 165whp @ 6500rpm naturally aspirated. This is about 194 crank hp.

[rioredstang]

I didn't mean the valve seats. No that would not work. The area of the head where the valves are protrudes into the combustion chamber. Check out turbo magazine ka24de build up part 2 and look at the combustion chambers. They have a very good article on porting.

[liquid_cool]

I remember Bigvinnie saying that his stock 270cc injectors maxed out at 165whp @ 6500rpm naturally aspirated. This is about 194 crank hp.

there is a formula to match injectors to desired horsepower golas man...sorry but slipps my mind where to get the math from again..might be jim wolf's page..i forget.

[pungkiteater_671]

did u get ur car running yet ?!?

im about done lol just need to put coolant and trans fluid and belts n time it

when im done we should cruise umm lol

[liquid_cool]

got my part in today..ill have her up by friday if the weather holds out...supost to rain or snow tomarrow..so much for global warming!..haha

[liquid_cool]

man..i hate electrical issues....its still shuting down..now its allmost predictable..like within 5-10 mins of the car running...i hate to say it..but im horribly lost on this.....any more idea's would be helpfull.

[rioredstang]

It sounds like could be dropping eccs relay. Your going to have to install test light on some circuits to monitor them and see who is dropping out. Something has to be getting hot. MSD? Blaster coil? Igniter? Do you run a ballast resister?

You could solder some clip leads to a 1157 bulb and mount under windshield wiper to be able to see when it quits. Make clip leads long enough to be able to move it around to different power sources and try to narrow down where it loses power. And also how many circuits are lost.When you know what circuits are failing, then you can trace to the source. This can be done with power distribution schematic.

I got my piston back and have reassembled my motor. I am going to degree my cams again. It seemed to be a tad bit lazy to me. Do you run you cam at 114 center line or advanced a little.

[seang]

Someone posted this on the trucks forum a few weeks ago:

"for all you folks that have a nissan that runs and dies check the ignition coil mounting bracket to see if you have a transistor control module mounted on it it could be a 2 or 1 plug module they work thru your computer and will cause ignition problems when bad, new cost from $115 at auto parts stores to over $200 at a dealer i replaced 3 already solved the problems of running and dying "

[liquid_cool]

Someone posted this on the trucks forum a few weeks ago:

"for all you folks that have a nissan that runs and dies check the ignition coil mounting bracket to see if you have a transistor control module mounted on it it could be a 2 or 1 plug module they work thru your computer and will cause ignition problems when bad, new cost from $115 at auto parts stores to over $200 at a dealer i replaced 3 already solved the problems of running and dying "

this is the ignitor chip your talking about bro...i replaced that..but thanks for the post anyways.

[liquid_cool]

It sounds like could be dropping eccs relay. Your going to have to install test light on some circuits to monitor them and see who is dropping out. Something has to be getting hot. MSD? Blaster coil? Igniter? Do you run a ballast resister?

You could solder some clip leads to a 1157 bulb and mount under windshield wiper to be able to see when it quits. Make clip leads long enough to be able to move it around to different power sources and try to narrow down where it loses power. And also how many circuits are lost.When you know what circuits are failing, then you can trace to the source. This can be done with power distribution schematic.

I got my piston back and have reassembled my motor. I am going to degree my cams again. It seemed to be a tad bit lazy to me. Do you run you cam at 114 center line or advanced a little.

after reading a crap load of post's here and on other forums..i think your in the rite ballpark...i read that its possible to have core damage in a battery and it would drop the relay due to lack of power to hold the magnetic field...im not shure of this as im no wizzard when it comes to electrical things in a car...im gona try testing this therory over this weekend and see if its my issue....thanks for the responce.

[liquid_cool]

UPDATE:.....seems i found a relay with scorching at the contact points...its the relay on the drivers side closest to the driver by the fender...the labeling is worn off on my box and fsm dosent tell me what its for..i replaced the relay and the car did the same thing...so i bypassed the relay with solid wire and i blew out the 30am ignition fuse on the passenger's side box...at least now im in the general area...i allso got the black wire to the relay connections to smoke/melt a bit....ill be going throu that wirte loom tomarrow to see what i find...

[liquid_cool]

ok..relay was the M/T relay...i swapped it out and allso a new ignition aswell..im still having the same issue....im now thinking that the ecu is shutting down and cousing this...what would shut down the ecu after a few mins?..any pointers would be helpfull.