Aamco full of crap? Yay or nay?

[Alcyone]

I have a 93 Q45 with 206k on it and the transmission fluid has started to look a little brown. I bought the car with approx 170k and the trans fluid looked good then. So it's been about 35k miles or so. I know very little about the history of this car.

As such, I took it to Aamco and requested a fluid and filter change WITHOUT a backflush. However, they said changing the fluid could cause the transmission to fail in the supposedly poor condition that it's in and they refused to touch it.

It does have a harsh 1-2 shift and the 2-3 shift is slightly erratic, but it's always been this way. It still drives the same as when I got it 35k miles ago.

I'm wondering if they're lying about not being able to change the fluid. Perhaps they're trying to sell me a new transmission that I don't really need? They gave me this line of crap stating it was only going to last another couple of thousand miles. I'm thinking yeah right tell me another story.

Any thoughts?
Modified by Alcyone at 6:56 PM 2/2/2009

[Infinitiguy19]

Thanks for pointing out yet another useless transmission shop.

But you should flush the transmission ever year or two at the absolute most.

And no nothing bad will happen when you flush the transmission.

[maxnix]

I have a 93 Q45 with 206k on it and the transmission fluid has started to look a little brown.

You are way behind the curve here. Substantial damage has already occurred.

Read the posts on how a proper mechanical ATF exchange should be performed.

The flush is the chemical agent BG Quick Clean which you should use.

Get your kit from:

http://www.infinitpartsusa.com

Call and find a shop who will do it the NICO way:

http://www.bgfindashop.com

SnapOn also has a machine under the Sun name.

Avoid pneumatic powered exchanges.

Wonder what your PS fluid looks like?

[Victor]

Two transmission mechanics told me that power flushing an old transmission that hasn't had regular maintenance will often do more harm than good. One shop showed me some discs (I don't remember the proper name) that had been ruined by power flushing. Also old seals can be damaged.

[qship96]

Go gradually on the old girl with 1 drain/fill a week in your driveway for 6 weeks in a row.

[Alcyone]

Go gradually on the old girl with 1 drain/fill a week in your driveway for 6 weeks in a row.

Sounds like a plan since every service shop and all mechanics are a bunch of rip off lying scumbags. I usually do my own maintenance. This was a good reminder of why.

The Aamco shop was at 11450 Huron Street Unit A, Northglenn, CO. So if you live in this area don't go there.

This reminded me of when I went to brakes plus and they tried to charge me 500 bucks to replace new rotors and drums that they had done 15k miles sooner.

[Infinitiguy19]

Wow alot of shops are hurting for money these days.

[unknown007]

Just make sure you always ask for you old fluid (dunno if it's possible) and replaced parts (has to be) because some shops don't do nothing and just clean the think up and make it look like new.

[Infinitiguy19]

That or if you can be in there while they do it and ask them what kind of machaine they use, how does it work, what fluid they use.

Ask them everthing you can think of related to the task at hand, and if they refuse to answer or don't want you to be in there with them tell them to get the car of the screwing lift and you will go else where.

But you have to be carefull of ever shop unless NICO aproved.

[NightRiderQ45]

Go gradually on the old girl with 1 drain/fill a week in your driveway for 6 weeks in a row.

In this guy's situation, this is the best route for to go. Do NOT perform a BG flush on your transmission with no prior history. The crud that is in there now is actually "helping" your transmission to perform. If you flush it away, you WILL do more harm than good.

Two transmission mechanics told me that power flushing an old transmission that hasn't had regular maintenance will often do more harm than good. One shop showed me some discs (I don't remember the proper name) that had been ruined by power flushing. Also old seals can be damaged.

This is true! I can't believe people were actually telling this guy to perform a flush when it's evident proper transmission service has not been performed. In your case OP, just do drain and refill because damage is already there. The idea is to change fluids BEFORE it visually looks/smells bad. I perform my next exchange at 205k.

[NightRiderQ45]

Just make sure you always ask for you old fluid (dunno if it's possible) and replaced parts (has to be) because some shops don't do nothing and just clean the think up and make it look like new.

I wouldn't ask for oil fluid lol, but as far as the BG flush machine, I stand there and watch them. As far as parts, I actually do this with spark plugs. I tell them to make sure they put the used spark plugs in the box the new plugs came out of. I usually tell them that I have a warranty on the plugs from a local parts store lol.

[Q45tech]

Many times we require a pan drop and observation of magnet for excess metal filings prior to allowing a BG Flush or doing anything on a transmission.

This is to protect the company from scam artist owners and the trained EVER SINCE YOU WORKED ON IT types who pay for car repairs by suing shops. Tricking the poor honest shop into doing some service on an already failing component.

Husbands send wife in clueless and unless the shop is spot on in it's new customer evaluation process or keeps up with the LIST of EVIL CUSTOMERS circulated among dealers and shops, they get bagged everytime.

ATL metro has had high mortgage fraud for years many of the scammers drive our brands, along with many religious con artists and preachers.

Worst are those that break into shops on weekends and steal their own car [after the repair] to avoid paying................

What happens with old expensive to repair lux cars.

Why many shops are so negative about any type of preventative mainteance especially when suggested by customer as it may just be a prelude to pschyodrama.

[Q45tech]

I have never had a Q45 transmission from the 90-93 series last 200,000 miles. In the past 19 years I've replaced them at ~ 50k and 183k intervals.Every 90-93 Q I've seen [hundreds] has had a replacement transmission in the past 8 years.

7-10 years is a long life for a 90-93 transmission.

I'm almost willing to bet yours is a replacement now [prior to 170k purchase].

But then again 1993 Q was the best of series with so many upgrades and software changes. You might be just on very last legs and have beaten my 183k life, as I am more sensitive to misbehavior and would have changed it out

[maxnix]

Two transmission mechanics told me that power flushing an old transmission that hasn't had regular maintenance will often do more harm than good. One shop showed me some discs (I don't remember the proper name) that had been ruined by power flushing.

Please define the "power flushing" procedure!

Are you sure those clutches were just not worn? I don't think any transmission flied exchanging apparatus could damage any clutches or discs without using the wrong solution.

[Alcyone]

This is true! I can't believe people were actually telling this guy to perform a flush when it's evident proper transmission service has not been performed. In your case OP, just do drain and refill because damage is already there. The idea is to change fluids BEFORE it visually looks/smells bad. I perform my next exchange at 205k.

It's draining as I type this. The fluid looks exceptionally bad. Very black and mucky. I very rarely drive the car so I'm not sure a drain a week is the best way to go. Do you have a recommended mileage before I should do the next drain? And just to confirm, 6 drains correct?

Thanks in advance

[Infinitiguy19]

A BG flush is really the way to go if the fluid is that bad. But the BG transmission flush is only available at the dealer or a good private shop as far as I know.

And the BG flush does'nt use any extra force or cause any damage when the machine is used correctly because it uses the transmission pump to exchange the fluid.

So if you want to spend some money and get the transmission fluid exchanged right I would go that route, then to maintain the fluid I would drain and refill every 1 or 2 oil changes.

Do the research your self you will see I am correct.

[qship96]

Be sure to measure amount drained and refill exact same amount with new atf. Drive it for 50 miles or so then repeat process.6 times should get you very very close to 100% new fluid- may need a few more,check fluid color on dipstick after 6 drain/fills compare to fluid color of new atf in bottle-that is your goal to have them look the same.

[Victor]

Here are some articles about the dangers of power flushing or just flushing a transmission or engine. They say contrary to popular opinion, not a single manufacturer recommends flushing a transmission, just fluid changes are enough.

http://autotechrepair.suite101...ssary

http://answers.yahoo.com/quest...3NFNy

The last paragraph of the next article says flushing a transmission that is on its last legs will cause immediate failure, whereas if you left it alone it might have kept on running.

http://www.gadgetonline.com/TransFlush.htm

Re: Transmission Flush a Good Thing?I personally dont' beleive in flushes persay. I do beleive in drainging the fluid and changing the filter, but I don't beleive in power flushes. If they losen andything up, or move a piece of something to the wrong spot you can end up having to spend lots of money to tear the transmission down. Regular fluid and fliter changes like every 50k will help keep your trans running quite well for the most part. I find that more then 50% of the time you run into problems after power flushing any trans, but to each there own. I am just going from what I've seen with my own eyes..__________________2ND ANNUAL SOUTHERN ONTARIO GM NATIONALS... Coming soon.... http://www.sogm.ca/forum/index.php?c=2

1985 Monte Carlo SSw/89 L98 T.P.I 350Electric water pump motor, SVO 24# inj. (50psi), 150 NOS shot, 3" Custom true dual exhaust, TH350 w/2800 stall, B&M Megashifter, 3:73 posi, Crane Fireball Hi6s, boxed upper and lower control arms. Service Manager/Sales

[qship96]

Honda specifically says never to use a machine fluid exchange for auto transmission- their procedure is 3 drain/fills with running transmission thru the gears between drains while still on the lift.

The main benefit of the machine is to the shop as it is a quick way to complete the job with minimal employee training involved, and a huge profit center{ same with all the other fluid changing machines.....profit driven- look at each companys website to see how they promote the machines to potential shops....".if you do X amount of flushes per week, you can gross X amount of dollars per week/month/year"

Jiffyturd can gross $500 per hour per machine if they could convince enough owners the need ......why they always want to show you the dipstick papsmear.

[Alcyone]

Be sure to measure amount drained and refill exact same amount with new atf. Drive it for 50 miles or so then repeat process.6 times should get you very very close to 100% new fluid- may need a few more,check fluid color on dipstick after 6 drain/fills compare to fluid color of new atf in bottle-that is your goal to have them look the same.

Thanks, will do

[Victor]

I think six fluid changes in a row is overkill, and bad for the environment. Look how much ATF you will be wasting and that will have to be disposed of (Please don't dump it down the sewer). Two changes seems like it would get 80 to 90% of the fluid changed, so who cares if 10 or 20% is still dirty. Before you started 100% was dirty. And changing your ATF every time you do an oil change is an unneeded ridiculous waste of precious resources and money in my opinion

[qship96]

Do the math.... simple dilution equasion. 2 changes will get you nowhere near 80-90%. 6 changes will get you into the mid/upper 90`s %.

[Victor]

The question is do you have to change 95% of the fluid? The car was operating with 100% of the fluid dirty. For arguments sake lets say the first change resulted in 50% new fluid. The second change would get you to 75% new fluid. The third change would get you to 87.5% new fluid. The fourth change would get you to 93.75% new fluid, and so on. If 60% of the fluid got replaced each time the figures would be 60% for the first change, 84% for the second change, 96% for the third change, and 98.4% for the fourth change, and so on. I would venture to guess that the transmission wouldn't perform noticibly different if 80% of the fluid was replaced compared to if 95% of the fluid was replaced with new fluid.

[qship96]

I would agree with you that 80-90% new fluid is good enough.....if we were starting with old fluid that wasnt trashed or discolored in any significant{brown/black}way.

[Johnny Rocket]

I would not trust an Amco shop as far as a sones throw...all franchisee's and all about the buck and not about the truth......there are thousands of horror stories about these companies........find a good local shop and get a couple of opinions......

[Q45tech]

When you pay a technican $25/hr with benefits it amounts to $ 37 and overhead brings it up to $75 an $85 labor rate doesn't leave much room when 14 quarts of ATF cost $28 and the 2 BG products cost $15.That's $118 or $11 profit on $129 retail.

Most customers occupy space and demand conversation for at least 1 hour.

You can do the job in 45 minutes.

I like the idea of doing a few 4 quart pan drains first before a BG Flush that slowly lets the clutches react to partially new ATF...............less shock.

[maxnix]

I would agree with you that 80-90% new fluid is good enough......

That's why all new ones come with 10% used fluid for starters!

What you are basically debating is how much fecal matter is tolerable. It's truly absurd.

[qship96]

That's why all new ones come with 10% used fluid for starters!

What you are basically debating is how much fecal matter is tolerable. It's truly absurd.

So Brian, if you change your motor oil at 3,750 mile intervals, you are saying that at 375 miles {10% use} that the fluid is "bad" and "full" of fecal matter......sounds kinda retarded, doesnt it?

[Alcyone]

I think six fluid changes in a row is overkill, and bad for the environment. Look how much ATF you will be wasting and that will have to be disposed of (Please don't dump it down the sewer). Two changes seems like it would get 80 to 90% of the fluid changed, so who cares if 10 or 20% is still dirty. Before you started 100% was dirty. And changing your ATF every time you do an oil change is an unneeded ridiculous waste of precious resources and money in my opinion

I'll second that. Roughly 5 quarts came out of the pan. After putting 5 quarts back in the fluid on the dipstick looks a lot better. Plus, ATF isn't cheap.

At the very least do people think it would be OK to wait until the next oil change?

[Infinitiguy19]

How far away is the oil change?