:;~;: A Discussion

[SeVa-S13]

Yeah I said it. I brought this up here because I know we have alot of members against it and I'd really like some other points of view on the subject. Oh, and for the record: I smoke, but am not innebriated right now.

Recently, I've been getting alot more discussions (sometimes degrading to arguments, which will not be allowed to happen here ) on this subject. It turns out the general public is just as dumb as I thought they were.

Somehow, with our complete shrugging-off of almost all moral value as a "modern society," the downright ridiculous sterotypes and misinformation about marijuana from the early 20th century linger on strongly, atleast with most of my elders. What's even funnier is that 90% imbibe alcohol regularly. Which brings me to this...

Digression: Alcohol tastes awful, in all forms. Yes, some alcoholic drinks taste pretty good but that's because you don't really taste the damn alcohol! The only possible thing I can see as a positive for alcohol is that there's apparently some doctors that say a little semi-often can actually be good for you. Other than that, it is a plague upon our society. Alcoholism, drunk driving, serious and deadly health problems, puking, hangovers, not to mention that it's a huge enabler for violence and general irresponsibility.Just imagine if marijuana had become the world's drug of choice instead of alcohol; instead of deadbeat drunk parents that get plastered and beat their children with a broom handle, you'd have deadbeat stoner parents that ate alot and played videogames with their kids. It's just an example, and a semi-joking one at that but more of a mental catalyst. End of tangent...mostly

Basically, I want to know everyone's (mature) thoughts on marijuana. Do you now, or have you ever smoked it?Do you drink?Do you now, or have you ever used other drugs? (I know some people feel really bashful about this so I'm not expecting many responses beyond your basic Shrooms/X/Prescription stuff but if you have done some more serious stuff and wouldn't mind sharing, PLEASE DO.)What do you think of the drug? (Really only for people who have smoked more than a couple times or maybe for those who have been around a habitual smoker both sober and high.)What do you think of the people who use it? Does everyone really have that silly worthless stoner/idiot mental image? What problems would those of you who oppose it have against its legalization?

I personally would have no problems with its legalization, obviously. My main concern would be DUI laws. (I'm pretty ignorant about what tests there to determine how much THC is in one's system so no clue on how that would work and what the legal driving limit would be because even the alcohol limit is ridiculous and is only where it is because of insane lobbyists and no one dumb/ballsy enough to stand up for logic and appear like a drunkard and insensitive miscreant.) What I'm concerned about is my experinece has been some poeple can drive high; others cannot. Thus, we default to a likely unreasonably low THC limit for driving. That's fine, it's right; it's downright logical. Erroring on the side of caution/safety is always the best choice with these things and a totally acceptable price to pay.

Plus, if it were legal; it'd be a lot cheaper. So the gov't taxes the crap out of it, like they do every other drug, raising the price back to what street prices are at now and making TONS of cash for the gov't.

Not that it's ever enough, but it's the thought that counts, right?

Edit: PLEASE don't limit yourself to just answering my little questionaire; I want all opinions for either side.

[The Mic]

i<3 w33d loloz

[DriftingJesus]

Stereotypes?

[SeVa-S13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H...iving

An interesting and informative link for those not versed in "ganjology." Ok, so I just made that word up now.

The whole page is good but it's set to show what I think is the most legitimate concern; driving. Keep in mind this is not the only test conducted that had the exact same results.

[DriftingJesus]

Meh

One could argue that drive while smoking anything is dangerous, because of the diminished about of oxygen reaching the brain.

[Jesda]

BUTTERCUP!

[PantherRacer]

marijuana has so much uses, I mean you can even use it as popcorn seasoning! and it's quite salty... I dunno if I got high from it cuz it was like 1:30 in the morning and I knocked out right after that and I passed on hittin the joint cuz I hadda go home lol.

but first time I hit it had the giggles. that whole night was funny. My friend who does it all the time? that guy is hilarious. I found riding a bicycle while high is no different except everything is damn funny

I'm still waiting fa ma next time, maybe wen I visit homefries in Canada...

[JimmyMethod]

Driving while smoking is dumb, just like drinking. It's not near as bad, unless it's a LOT, but I don't think it's a good idea, and if it's ever legalized, driving while high won't be legal.

Personally, I don't think it's great mentally for you, at least when you're young. It tends to kill your motivation, especially if you frequently do it in large quantities.

p.s. Seva, what's your issue with Spore?
Modified by JimmyMethod at 8:55 PM 3/13/2006

[SeVa-S13]

Meh

One could argue that drive while smoking anything is dangerous, because of the diminished about of oxygen reaching the brain.

I didn't mean smoking WHILE driving.

Personally, I don't think it's great mentally for you, at least when you're young. It tends to kill your motivation, especially if you frequently do it in large quantities.

I can definitely attest to the somewhat diminished motivation, atleast while high. Normally though, I won't smoke before having to do work/something important for that very fact; not because I won't do the work or do it half-assed or slower...it's just a waste of a high. But then again I don't smoke all that much...

[Axel Grungy]

i personally have never smoked weed or done any drugs. i really hate to drink too. im 22

weed to me isnt half as bad as alcohol. alcohol SCREWS u up and kills people. theres so many alcohol related deaths every year its staggering

people dont die from smoking too much weed. for the most part u can function on weed, whereas on alcohol ur not in control. i know there is extreme cases of both. alot of alcoholics function perfectly fine every day. my (late) mother was one of them.

i think the main reason weed is illegal in this country is because they think it leads to other drugs. i guess in a way it could be, if weed just makes u unmotivated and hungry.

i think they should really focus on alcohol. it kills more people that every drug combined im sure.

[JimmyMethod]

i think the main reason weed is illegal in this country is because they think it leads to other drugs. i guess in a way it could be, if weed just makes u unmotivated and hungry.

Marijuana was made illegal mainly for racist reasons. Harry Anslinger, the man that campaigned for it's illegalization gave the reasoning "Marijuana makes darkies think they're as good as white men".

Other reasons given for it's banning: It caused 'Murder, insanity, and death.'At the time of the Marijuana Tax Act, that banned the bill, during the preceedings in congress, representatives claimed the American Medical Association 'was in full agreement' that marijuana should be banned, however, the AMA didn't know that, by marijuana, they meant cannabis that had been prescribed as medicine for the previous 100 years.

One really interesting thing I find is that the EDUCATED conservatives (that narrows the pool down a lot) think that the illegalization of drugs it much worse than the actual drugs. The illegalization leads to all the bad things we associate with drugs, i.e. stealing, killing, prostitution, etc. Drugs like alcohol and tobacco don't have such issues, but other than the fact that they're legal, they have no fundemental difference with any other drug. Also, if you legalize drugs, at least some, you get a HUGE source of revenue for the government that is otherwise being wasted because, wait for it,YOU CAN TAX IT! Imagine, the billions of dollars of marijuana, cocaine, and heroin being sold in the U.S. could be taxed 50%, the price would still drop for the buyers and sellers, because of the ease to get it and, since it's not illegal and they're not trying to cover their asses, and the huge debt the government has could be demolished in a few of decades.

[elwesso]

One really interesting thing I find is that the EDUCATED conservatives (that narrows the pool down a lot) think that the illegalization of drugs it much worse than the actual drugs. The illegalization leads to all the bad things we associate with drugs, i.e. stealing, killing, prostitution, etc. Drugs like alcohol and tobacco don't have such issues, but other than the fact that they're legal, they have no fundemental difference with any other drug. Also, if you legalize drugs, at least some, you get a HUGE source of revenue for the government that is otherwise being wasted because, wait for it,YOU CAN TAX IT! Imagine, the billions of dollars of marijuana, cocaine, and heroin being sold in the U.S. could be taxed 50%, the price would still drop for the buyers and sellers, because of the ease to get it and, since it's not illegal and they're not trying to cover their asses, and the huge debt the government has could be demolished in a few of decades.

Thats pretty lame there... yes, it makes sense, but the law, by definition should have hte best interests of the general population in mind... The gov't cannot declare lassiez faire and say simply "oh we dont care, its your own damn fault if you die"... We cant have a lot of coke addicts running around... I dont think any civilized nation in the world has legal cocaine and heroine!!! Sure we wouldnt have national debt, but americans would now be addicted to drugs as well as being fat and ignorant..

IT sprobably different for weed though since its not nearly as potent of a drug as cocaine and herione.. and the side effects are generally not as drastic..

Legalizing weed would likely lead to less strain on the judical system in theory.. I would say htat most drug charges (over 50%) are from weed... However, would the influx of people being arrested by doing things stupid WHILE high offset any benefits? maybe, maybe not, its pretty hard to say...

I think its a tossup, but if I had to lean one way, id probably say it needsto stay as is . its much more dangerous health wise than alcohol is..

[continental_drift]

its much more dangerous health wise than alcohol is..

go figure? how could you even possibly say that? find the figure on marijuanarelated deaths and or illness/injury, then check that against alcohol related deathsand/or illness/injury. see if it's still "much more dangerous health wise" than alcohol.

[elwesso]

go figure? how could you even possibly say that? find the figure on marijuanarelated deaths and or illness/injury, then check that against alcohol related deathsand/or illness/injury. see if it's still "much more dangerous health wise" than alcohol.

That isnt really fair, because there are a LOT more people that use alcohol than weed!!! So of course, there are going to be more illnesses/deaths/injuries if 20times as many poeple in this country use alcohol compraed to weed!

I am talking about health in the respect, that you have a much larger chance of long term health risks by smoking weed (mouth and lung cancer, and so forth)... UNless you are a hardcore drinker, there really arent too many negative health risks by doing it on a small basis... meaningif you have, say 2-3 beers a day or a mixed drink, that is a lot different than having 3 joints per day... A lot more of the drug is in one joint compared to even a strongish mixed drink... Not mention the fact that your BREATHING SMOKE!

[Rex]

go figure? how could you even possibly say that? find the figure on marijuanarelated deaths and or illness/injury, then check that against alcohol related deathsand/or illness/injury. see if it's still "much more dangerous health wise" than alcohol.

Well, my suggestion would be people start using "quanitifed/verified facts" to make those statements, and I really don't see that happening .

I changed the title name, as it shows up in "Active Threads" and may draw more than necessary into this sub-forum.

[The Mic]

Well, my suggestion would be people start using "quanitifed/verified facts" to make those statements, and I really don't see that happening .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_iss ... ancer_link

All sources are cited right in there, btw.

[elwesso]

Thats kind of iffy.. The drug marijuana may not actually cause cancer, but the stuff in SMOKING marijuana probably will cause cancer, however its not likely much different than smoking regular tobaccy.

[JimmyMethod]

We cant have a lot of coke addicts running around...

We already do.

Just because it's illegal doesn't mean lots of people don't use it. Hell, our president used it for years.His kids use it still.

3.7 Million people use cocaine in the US as of 7 years ago, and usage has been going up, and a huge chunk of that is in corp. America.

We let nicotine and alcohol addicts run rampant in the U.S. and we don't do anything about it. The difference is minimal.

[The Mic]

Thats kind of iffy.. The drug marijuana may not actually cause cancer, but the stuff in SMOKING marijuana probably will cause cancer, however its not likely much different than smoking regular tobaccy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_iss ... an_tobacco
Modified by The Mic at 10:50 AM 3/14/2006

[thekage]

While I know my personal experience is not the norm.. it is however my personal experience that shapes my views. I am a social drinker who drinks probably 3 to 4 times a week and drinks in moderation. I have never smoked weed or done any other drug. But I have had many contact highs from hanging out with friends who were smoking when I was with them.

While I know people can become consumed by alcohol addictions; that has been rare in my friends and family. Everyone I was friends with in high school that smoked weed however; became consumed by it. Several people I knew all through school were smart, intelligent people and had bright futures. One good friend of mine was a star receiver on our football team and had all kinds of scouts sniffing at him. He started smoking very regularly mid junior year... and things started to go downhill. By the end of our senior year he couldn't even play anymore because of a lung condition he developed.This was an extreme case but his attitude became pretty much standard for all of my friends.

I know that is more than likely not the norm.. many people smoke weed everyday and have careers and families and are still ambitious. But my experience has been it killed their ambition. They became lackadaisical and could care less about their future. Smoking was the big thing in their life from that point on. Im not a big fan of it... but I am a fan of personal freedom. So I am torn between the two. People should be protected.. but if thats what you want to do.. you are going to do it anyway.

[continental_drift]

ALCOHOL IS A ****ING DRUG.

let's not get it twisted.

oh, and kage, drinking 3-4 times a week is NOT social drinking. I drink MAYBEonce every 6 months and it is not to get drunk or catch a buzz, and willusually only have one drink, or possibly I will have a sake when we go to sushi...

THAT, is social drinking in moderation. you are engaging in recreationaldrinking, which is fine, but lets not turn this thread into everyone thinking thatthey're the ****ing pope.

[The Mic]

A few years ago the FBI "took down" Tommy Chong for selling bongs on the internet, and Bob Denver (Gilligan from Gilligans Island). So we got Chong and we got Gilligan, that's about 2/3s of the Axis of Coolio, I don't know about everyone else but I feel safer .

Even if it took just 2 agents to bring down Chong, couldn't that time have been better spent by just putting those 2 agents in a room and telling them to just "Think about al-Qaeda." "Here, take one of Tommy's bongs and just really think about al-Qaeda." I don't know how cannabis, the one drug that never killed anyone, got to be the demon seed. It's amazing. It's really a triumph of negative marketing.

What we should be telling the government is to get their noses out of our personal affairs. We aren't children. These are the kind of things government is supposed to do: national defense, infrastructure, the big things that people can't do for themselves.

Tell them in Washington: Protect us from evil, not from ourselves.

[thekage]

oh, and kage, drinking 3-4 times a week is NOT social drinking. I drink MAYBEonce every 6 months and it is not to get drunk or catch a buzz, and willusually only have one drink, or possibly I will have a sake when we go to sushi...

THAT, is social drinking in moderation. you are engaging in recreationaldrinking, which is fine, but lets not turn this thread into everyone thinking thatthey're the ****ing pope.

http://vaden.stanford.edu/topi....html Quote » Social drinking is the consumption of alcohol without reaching the point of being drunk. It is drinking in a safe, legal, and responsible manner, allowing you to socialize. Three or less measured drinks (or a blood alcohol level of up to 0.05%) is considered to be within the social drinking range.[/quote]I am a social drinker. You drink rarely.

[continental_drift]

Akadama - Plum royal. $5.37 from Shnucks... its kick ***. Highly recommend chugging a bottle.

I rest my case.

[thekage]

Ok I was slightly buzzed after drinking said wine with my wife and friends after some tasty chinese dinner. I recommend the chugging in Jest. Even though; that in no way violates "drinking in a safe, legal, and responsible manner".

but lets not turn this thread into everyone thinking that they're the ****ing pope.

I suggest you follow your own advice. What do our different drinking habits have to do with smoking weed?

[gabossie]

Here is my experience with Marijuana, and I think it represent a reasonably good overview of many peoples experiences with it. Until my first year in college, I had never smoked, nor had I ever been drunk. Throughout that year I was introduced to both and subsequently smoked occasionally, very occasionally. This frequency continued for probably two years while my drinking increased DRAMATICALLY. Then, there was a point where weed became very available to me, at one point my buddy and I even sold it, not for profit per se but just to make enough so that we no longer had to pay for our own weed. We were the worst drug dealers ever, most likely because were were never motivated by money. During this time I also drank excessively, this lasted a few months and during this time my school grades and my job both went downhill, though I never let it get to the point of faliure of firing. Eventually I came to the realization that this habit of drinking and smoking excessively could not continue and I took a bit of a hiatus from both, maybe a little extreme but it gave me a very good perspective on what effect they had on my life. Moving foreward a couple months, I started smoking and drinking again, though now enjoying both in much smaller quantities and far more responsibly. I very much enjoy both though I smoke far less than I drink now which is a few beers a day because I truely enjoy the taste of different varieties of beer. I smoke on average, maybe twice a month. It is something that I rarely spend money on because in my limited financial situation I found it to be expendable, there were many things that my money needed to go towards before weed. I do still buy alcohol, spending on average far more than I would for weed that would last me a lot longer, a bit of a double standard yes, but I love my beer.

Conclusions on consumption. I never in my life felt "addicted" to weed. My consumption has largely been a function of it's availability. If consumed responsibly, which has different meanings to different people as people react differently, it is no more harmfull that alcohol consumed "responsibly." Also noted is the inability of many people to consume alcohol responsibly once they've started drinking, also they inability to consume marijuana responsibly once they've consumed alcohol. I never smoke when I have to study for a test or work on a project, etc but neither do I go start drinking before doing these things either.

On Driving. I have no problem driving when I'm high, if anything I am more cautious because I am aware of the effects rather than just being drunk and stupid. If you get REALLY high though, and I'm sure the other smokers here know this point; there is a difference between being high and being downright baked; I would avoid driving.

Other drugs. I've tried the basics. I love shrooms, done those a few times. Tried ecstasy twice, that was fun. Did something called 2-CB once when we thought we were getting x, that was GREAT though I wish I had known that it wasn't x before hand. Never really got into any prescrion drugs and I refuse to do anything that requires me to snort or shoot it. I'll never try any form of methamphetamine because I've seen far to many peoples lives ruined by it. I would like to try acid once though I don't see it likely ever happening. I like to try new things, new experiences. Once, maybe twice and I'm good, just like to see what the mind is capable in altered states which if you've never experienced anything other than alcohol, is incredible. I never got into any prescription stuff really, that's always been scary to me for some reason, just my own mental block.

On legalization. I am for legalization in many senses. I feel that it's wrong that it's illegal in the first place just out of principle. I also think it's rediculous that negative advertising has given such a negative image to something so harmless in the grand scheme of things. As a smoker I am almost for keeping it illegal though because I see legality and government control turning it into something just like the cigarette market. Big industry, lots of **** added, etc. I have no problem getting ahold of bud when I want it so I see no advantage to me. Though it would be nice not to have to run the risk of carrying it, which is really negligible in California anyway unless you're dealing in LARGE quantities. As for Wes's comment about the number of people that consume weed as compared to alcohol... If I had to put a number to it I would say that nearly 75% of the population of California has or does smoke weed, I mean it's rare that I find someone that doesn't, and extremely rare that I find someone that has a problem with people smoking around them. Somehow, with all these high, unmotivated people, we still have an economy larger than all but 5 NATIONS of the world, one of which is the US. Can't be all that bad eh
Modified by gabossie at 5:00 PM 3/14/2006

[JimmyMethod]

Somewhat off topic factoid: In the marketing industry, many places there is an unofficial endorsement of smoking weed.

[thekage]

Somewhat off topic factoid: In the marketing industry, many places there is an unofficial endorsement of smoking weed.

Hm. Such as?

[continental_drift]

I suggest you follow your own advice. What do our different drinking habits have to do with smoking weed?

I don't think you have enough information nor experience to compare the 2substances, this has nothing to do with our drinking habits.

I do however think there is a double standard propegated by those who have no idea what the physical, physiological, or psychological effects ofeither let alone both substances and their subjective effects on differentindividuals.

I also, for the most part, do not find it necessary to discuss my drug or alcoholuse or "abuse" as it were, on these forums.

for the record, I work 50+ hours a week, I am a productive member of society,I take on responsibilies at home and at work, I maintain a low profile butalso active social life, and I use marijuana.

it functions for me on several levels, one of which is that it's properties as avaso-dialator help relieve the pain of G.I.R.D, from which I suffer.

I realize that this thread is generally opinion based in nature, but I also feelthat without a valid point of reference, any negative opinions about somethingwhich you have very little knowledge about or experience with makes thesepoints moot.

also for the record, when I was younger I used to drink "socially" and overtime it lost any redeeming value that it might have once offered. I don't givepeople **** about their drinking unless they categorically misrepresent it, in the same sense since I INTENTIONALLY keep my personal substance useto myself because it is noones business but my own, and I truly feel it hasno place on these boards. In the context of this discussion I guess that itis an unavoidable necessity to bring personal experience into the mix.

so yes, I have (in the past) been a more frequent drinker, when I say in thepast I'm talking 5-7 years ago. also IN THE PAST i have tried various othernarcotics and controlled substances, none of which do I currently use so tome this "weed is a gateway drug" arguement that some would employ iscomplete and utter bull****.

none of this was meant as a personal attack to you kage, this is generalizedto encompass most of the responses in this thread. I do however feel thatif someone were to say they smoke marijuana 3-4 times a week they wouldnot be considered a social smoker. I truly feel that the "social acceptability"and ready availability of alcoholic beverages dictates what most consider"social" levels of drinking, though in their truest form are easily as harmfulby sheer stereotyping and standard as they are pysically.

anytime there is a discussion of cannabis I feel that people immediately jumpto conclusions and through lack of experience or understanding immediatelyjump to the conclusion that it ruins lives.

there is a HUGE discrepancy here, where in people are NOT taking into accountthat an ADDICTIVE PERSONALITY is required in order to become addicted toANY substance.

and one other thing, the discussion in this thread is not to leave this forum,this is personal information that I keep OFF of the board for a reason, as I'msure others here do as well. I personally think that its a bit unfair that micis always getting **** about "oh you smoke pot" or "oh the mic is high again",when really, if someone says some dumb **** it is on their own recognaisanceand I see PLENTY of dumb **** said on these forums without the introductionof ANY controlled substance to help.

[SeVa-S13]

That isnt really fair, because there are a LOT more people that use alcohol than weed!!! So of course, there are going to be more illnesses/deaths/injuries if 20times as many poeple in this country use alcohol compraed to weed!

I am talking about health in the respect, that you have a much larger chance of long term health risks by smoking weed (mouth and lung cancer, and so forth)... UNless you are a hardcore drinker, there really arent too many negative health risks by doing it on a small basis... meaningif you have, say 2-3 beers a day or a mixed drink, that is a lot different than having 3 joints per day... A lot more of the drug is in one joint compared to even a strongish mixed drink... Not mention the fact that your BREATHING SMOKE!

I think it's a bit unfair comparing oranges to apples (imbibing vs. smoking) so I prefer to compare the health risks to those of tobacco. Yes, most tobacco smokers will smoke a ton more than someone who solely smokes marijuana, but that's mainly because weed's effects last alot longer so there isn't the "need." I doubt filtered tobacco smoke is that much different healthwise than weed filtered through water but far less is smoked, and it's non addictive. A major Pro for me...

We already do.

Just because it's illegal doesn't mean lots of people don't use it. Hell, our president used it for years.His kids use it still.

We let nicotine and alcohol addicts run rampant in the U.S. and we don't do anything about it. The difference is minimal.

My sentiments almost exactly. Hypocrisy/double standards just bother me a lot. =\

Edit: Oh, and thanks to all for contributing.