Can I reaplace my 92Q driveshaft with a 94Q drive shaft? The local junk yard had a low mileage 94Q (42k) and is asking a reasonable price for the drive shaft that is some 60% less that the new price.
Are the two drive shafts interchangeable?
Thanks
94Q Drive Shaft into 92Q
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Q45tech
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Be sure to have the balance checked [less than $100 if you drop it off] at a driveline shop.....they are all interchanable.Also spend the time to index it for minimum rear section center runout.Check the ujoints for notchiness at the yard and relieve it with a ballp hammer before you buy it, if it won't clear find one that will!
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greg_atlanta
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Q45tech
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You better have good eyes to see the 0.024" runout spec!
The balance is the foam inside and the concentric [roundness].The shaft will need to be placed on a strobe machine!You do the match mounting [minimize runout] with a gauge on the car .......takes about two hours to check all four postions then best to drive it at the rpm [speed] you are most concerned with and have the owner pick the WHICH position where he feels vibrationn the least.
A perfect replacement would take 4-6 hours of measurement and driving.............almost never done because the customer won't pay for perfection!
See all the white marks on the oem diff flange and shaft flange, this is where they got it perfect at the factory. Perfect shaft and perfect match mounting........no vibration. Less than perfect new shaft because of shipping????Check pages PD-5&6 plus the TSB for match mounting and vibration control.
I had the full blown proceedure done on mine back in 98 when it was replaced took a while to decide which of the positions I like best then we had to decide on how many washers to offset the center bearing to align the shaft level......best to have all brand new mounts...diff, transmission and engine......then replace them often as the front or rear sags............you really need a pit lift so the car is perfectly level to use a laser to align the shaft center bushing.
Again most just pay for a simple shaft replacement and are happy with the $900 improvement, without all the fancy fine tuning .....heck most defer even the replacement.
The balance is the foam inside and the concentric [roundness].The shaft will need to be placed on a strobe machine!You do the match mounting [minimize runout] with a gauge on the car .......takes about two hours to check all four postions then best to drive it at the rpm [speed] you are most concerned with and have the owner pick the WHICH position where he feels vibrationn the least.
A perfect replacement would take 4-6 hours of measurement and driving.............almost never done because the customer won't pay for perfection!
See all the white marks on the oem diff flange and shaft flange, this is where they got it perfect at the factory. Perfect shaft and perfect match mounting........no vibration. Less than perfect new shaft because of shipping????Check pages PD-5&6 plus the TSB for match mounting and vibration control.
I had the full blown proceedure done on mine back in 98 when it was replaced took a while to decide which of the positions I like best then we had to decide on how many washers to offset the center bearing to align the shaft level......best to have all brand new mounts...diff, transmission and engine......then replace them often as the front or rear sags............you really need a pit lift so the car is perfectly level to use a laser to align the shaft center bushing.
Again most just pay for a simple shaft replacement and are happy with the $900 improvement, without all the fancy fine tuning .....heck most defer even the replacement.
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greg_atlanta
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Q45tech
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Well most tires are out of balance a week after you get them done so mostly I would bet on tires/wheels/bearings, rotors, things that are used.
You have to read the frequency of the vibrations [expensive test equipment that very few have] that is the only way to be sure.
Well you have your tires wheels tested on a Hunter 9700 [make sure they squish the roller to 1200 pounds] [most cheat by setting it to 600 pounds or less] and if they are less than 10 pound radially force imbalanced it is not the tires!
You have to read the frequency of the vibrations [expensive test equipment that very few have] that is the only way to be sure.
Well you have your tires wheels tested on a Hunter 9700 [make sure they squish the roller to 1200 pounds] [most cheat by setting it to 600 pounds or less] and if they are less than 10 pound radially force imbalanced it is not the tires!
What is the scoop on fixing the shot U joints on the drive shaft?
I was talking to a local shop here in North Phoenix and the guy stated that if the drive line is otherwise balanced - he can fix the shot U joints by doing something to it so that it becomes replaceable - so in future, the U joints could be easily replaced on my drive shaft.
He was talking in the range of $370 or so for this service. My quesiton is, is it worth the shot or better off putting a new drive shaft for just about double the price [$590 (drive shaft) + installation (2 hours or so of labor)]
The yard has some drive shafts for about $200. Assume another $100 atleast for some shop to test it for balance before putting it on - so I am already in the $300 range with a used one that may last another 30k miles or so. According to the shop, having the U joints made into replaceable, the car would be set for life [plus future driveline balancign costs...]
Any thoughts?
I was talking to a local shop here in North Phoenix and the guy stated that if the drive line is otherwise balanced - he can fix the shot U joints by doing something to it so that it becomes replaceable - so in future, the U joints could be easily replaced on my drive shaft.
He was talking in the range of $370 or so for this service. My quesiton is, is it worth the shot or better off putting a new drive shaft for just about double the price [$590 (drive shaft) + installation (2 hours or so of labor)]
The yard has some drive shafts for about $200. Assume another $100 atleast for some shop to test it for balance before putting it on - so I am already in the $300 range with a used one that may last another 30k miles or so. According to the shop, having the U joints made into replaceable, the car would be set for life [plus future driveline balancign costs...]
Any thoughts?
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Q451990
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I bought my driveshaft from Scottsdale for about $450 - they'll probably throw in free shipping to get the sale (Lisle will free ship any order over $100).
The newer design was updated to keep the insulation between the inner and outer shaft from shifting and causing balance problems. The shaft is a fairly complex design, with rubber flex plates in the front that get old and harden too - so I'd go with new. It's fairly DIY-able if you're in to that sort of thing.
Heath
The newer design was updated to keep the insulation between the inner and outer shaft from shifting and causing balance problems. The shaft is a fairly complex design, with rubber flex plates in the front that get old and harden too - so I'd go with new. It's fairly DIY-able if you're in to that sort of thing.
Heath
This questions has ben answered already here, but for what its worth:
I am running a 94 driveshaft in my 91 right now.Was a direct replacement bolt-on.
At the dealer that's the replacment you get for all 90-96 Q's.Even tho the part# is originally different for the 90-93's the part# for 94-96 now also applies to the 90-93's at the dealer.
Fred...
I am running a 94 driveshaft in my 91 right now.Was a direct replacement bolt-on.
At the dealer that's the replacment you get for all 90-96 Q's.Even tho the part# is originally different for the 90-93's the part# for 94-96 now also applies to the 90-93's at the dealer.
Fred...
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Q45tech
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$1,000 [worst case] drive shaft is such a small part of the $15,000 you get to spend every 100,000 miles [5 years]. the shaft should last over 120,000 miles.
As most have found if you are not spending $3,000 per year or saving up $3,000 per year, you find yourself in a repair/ maintenance hole very quickly.
As most have found if you are not spending $3,000 per year or saving up $3,000 per year, you find yourself in a repair/ maintenance hole very quickly.
Okay - I have learned with time that this car is not for the budget minded [hence the 3k/year number]
Joe at Scottsdale quoted $600 for the shaft. As I was able to find one at yard for $200 with 42K miles, I thought it was a fair game - my thinking I can gamble with $200.
The shaft in no longer offered for $450 at scottsdale.
Appreciate your responses and advise, I may just check out the yard today to see the condition. The sad part it, I am not sure what to look for - but it does come with monet back warranty.
Joe at Scottsdale quoted $600 for the shaft. As I was able to find one at yard for $200 with 42K miles, I thought it was a fair game - my thinking I can gamble with $200.
The shaft in no longer offered for $450 at scottsdale.
Appreciate your responses and advise, I may just check out the yard today to see the condition. The sad part it, I am not sure what to look for - but it does come with monet back warranty.
3k/year is to keep it to close as new.many here make do with less.Also buying this car so cheap used means one is several 1000's ahead from the start, vs other V8 luxosports.
Actually its a LOT cheaper to maintain than same age V8 Mercedes' and BMW's, even when not considering the much lower purchase price when new or used.
Fred...
Actually its a LOT cheaper to maintain than same age V8 Mercedes' and BMW's, even when not considering the much lower purchase price when new or used.
Fred...
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Q45tech
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"Okay - I have learned with time that this car is not for the budget minded [hence the 3k/year number"........
If a Q45 is as high up the luxo food chain as you have gotten, you owe it to yourself to buy a used BMW 740........they cost close to 11 cents more per mile to operate used and 20-25 cents per mile new. What's another few thousand per year [more like $3,000].
These people are really rich or suicidal after they bought an out of warranty one. Especially when the add up the nights per year it spends in the shop.
My Q has only spent 1 [one] night in the shop in 12 years........you can do a lot in 8 REAL hours like $1800 worth.
If a Q45 is as high up the luxo food chain as you have gotten, you owe it to yourself to buy a used BMW 740........they cost close to 11 cents more per mile to operate used and 20-25 cents per mile new. What's another few thousand per year [more like $3,000].
These people are really rich or suicidal after they bought an out of warranty one. Especially when the add up the nights per year it spends in the shop.
My Q has only spent 1 [one] night in the shop in 12 years........you can do a lot in 8 REAL hours like $1800 worth.
I guess, I am on the spending cycle right now - 10 months and roughly 5K into it [not including any $ for what I do DIY].
Hopefully my experience will match what you guys are talking about - assuming bringing the car upto snuff is all front loaded and then it is coasting from there on.
Like many others, when I got into this car, I had absolutely no clue what would be required to keep thing car up and running. What you need to understand is that for some of us, this is a first "luxo" car [no one should be surprised here, if we all had butt loads of money, why would one buy a 10 year old car? ] - a $40K car that you can get into for $5K sure sounds like a deal - and if all what you can compare it to for reference is camry and accord maintenance experiences, you think it is a deal - and that is where the story starts to fall apart and this is where some of us are caught off guard.
When all my experience is with Hondas and Toyotas - I am bound to be caught offguard with a Q45. Now, there is something wrong in this picture, the thing that is wrong is that I should have never compared this to the Camrys and Accords - difference class of car - but I can not help here, that is all what I had seen before.
We learn with our mistakes, now I probably be careful when thinking about buying used BMW and Mercedez - I have some experience of owning a used "luxo" car and know what it means to keep it running.
So, when some of us bring out the cost of Q45 ownership, you need to understand the perspective where we are coming from as well - blatantly wrong it may be, but that is all what some of us had to compare with. But you know what; it does not take long to realize the reality.
I would be surprised if everyone on this board would come out and state that they knew the cost structure of a used Q45 ownership when they bought a 10 year old one of the street for around 5K [and this being their first luxo car] - but you never know.
Hopefully my experience will match what you guys are talking about - assuming bringing the car upto snuff is all front loaded and then it is coasting from there on.
Like many others, when I got into this car, I had absolutely no clue what would be required to keep thing car up and running. What you need to understand is that for some of us, this is a first "luxo" car [no one should be surprised here, if we all had butt loads of money, why would one buy a 10 year old car? ] - a $40K car that you can get into for $5K sure sounds like a deal - and if all what you can compare it to for reference is camry and accord maintenance experiences, you think it is a deal - and that is where the story starts to fall apart and this is where some of us are caught off guard.
When all my experience is with Hondas and Toyotas - I am bound to be caught offguard with a Q45. Now, there is something wrong in this picture, the thing that is wrong is that I should have never compared this to the Camrys and Accords - difference class of car - but I can not help here, that is all what I had seen before.
We learn with our mistakes, now I probably be careful when thinking about buying used BMW and Mercedez - I have some experience of owning a used "luxo" car and know what it means to keep it running.
So, when some of us bring out the cost of Q45 ownership, you need to understand the perspective where we are coming from as well - blatantly wrong it may be, but that is all what some of us had to compare with. But you know what; it does not take long to realize the reality.
I would be surprised if everyone on this board would come out and state that they knew the cost structure of a used Q45 ownership when they bought a 10 year old one of the street for around 5K [and this being their first luxo car] - but you never know.
Firstq, you are NOT alone, I surely didn't know what to expect in costs when I first bought the car. But I got a pretty good idea after I spent $600 on the 60k service! I bought the car at 175k, and I was honest enough then to know it was a real crap shoot. It's been a good decision. I'm not rich nor suicidal. I can't afford to take my car to the dealership. But I can turn a wrench and I think I'm smarter than most of the Yahoos at the independent shops in my neighborhood, perhaps only because I know how to read a shop manual and they don't. I've had my Q for 3 1/2 years now, and have put 40k blissful miles on it. In that time I've learned to expect to spend at least 1 weekend a month under it, and to spend $2-300/month on parts. In reality, I spend less than that on average, but if I expect it from the start, then I'm rarely disappointed. What car could I possibly buy or lease for $2-300/month? The car's coming along great, bit by bit, and I'm looking forward to a "tapering off" soon of my time and money, as eventually I'll have replaced all things that wear out on the car, and each big item should last 60k or more.
I just ordered a 96Q drive shaft from yard for roughly $140 (shipping included) - dealer confirmed that newer shafts will go fine on a 92Q. The car had some 60K miles on it. We will see if my $140 gamble improves the drive or not - just not ready to throw in $730+ for a new one.
I checked with Scottsdale and they claim that the price of a driveshaft was never $450 - it has always been around $600 for internet clients + $50 for shipping + $36 for brackets +$50 tax (I am local in Phoenix) = $736 just for the parts.
Once I get my old shaft out, I am thinking about taking it to a local driveline shop to see if the U joints can be pressed out and replaced [just in case the 96Q shaft did not turn out to be a keeper].
Any pointers for DIYing the Drive shaft? my understanding is that it is a fairly straight forward job - just have to crawl beneath the car and make use of some big wrenches...
Hopefully then I will be done for this year....
I checked with Scottsdale and they claim that the price of a driveshaft was never $450 - it has always been around $600 for internet clients + $50 for shipping + $36 for brackets +$50 tax (I am local in Phoenix) = $736 just for the parts.
Once I get my old shaft out, I am thinking about taking it to a local driveline shop to see if the U joints can be pressed out and replaced [just in case the 96Q shaft did not turn out to be a keeper].
Any pointers for DIYing the Drive shaft? my understanding is that it is a fairly straight forward job - just have to crawl beneath the car and make use of some big wrenches...
Hopefully then I will be done for this year....
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Q451990
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firstq wrote:I checked with Scottsdale and they claim that the price of a driveshaft was never $450 - it has always been around $600 for internet clients + $50 for shipping + $36 for brackets +$50 tax (I am local in Phoenix) = $736 just for the parts.
I just checked my invoice again... 37000-70U10 List $642.74, Cost $449.92. That's right about when TJ was leaving so maybe he "hooked me up" and I didn't realize it. We always had a free shipping arrangement, but I don't think that was standard. I bought a LOT of parts for a while!
Some parts prices have gone up quite a bit - I noticed the transmission mount was substantially more now than two years ago. Other parts have dropped... guess it just reflects the cost of whatever Nissan paid for the last batch they made.
Heath
Heath - I guess Scottsdale is not telling the right story to me then - I talked with jeff there today and told him that folks at NICO calim the price to be around $450 and he said no way and never. May be he is not aware of the historical prices on this particular item. But I take your words - I guess either you got a good deal, or Jeff is missing the history.
Okay - the shaft arrived today from the yard - looks pretty clean - no dents and scuffs, the U joint looks pretty tight [no axial play, atleast to me].
The whole thing is big - I will probably have to figure out a way to hold it in place with wires and stuff before putting the nuts - as it is bulky. I am not sure if it came with all the brackets etc - so once I remove the original shaft, I will know more as to what is missing [brackets, clamps, etc]. Jeff at scottsdale was saying the updated shafts need two brackets $18 a piece - may be I will need those as I do not see any brackets on the shaft that came from the yard.
Guys - any tips for doing the shaft is greatly appreciated...
Thanks
The whole thing is big - I will probably have to figure out a way to hold it in place with wires and stuff before putting the nuts - as it is bulky. I am not sure if it came with all the brackets etc - so once I remove the original shaft, I will know more as to what is missing [brackets, clamps, etc]. Jeff at scottsdale was saying the updated shafts need two brackets $18 a piece - may be I will need those as I do not see any brackets on the shaft that came from the yard.
Guys - any tips for doing the shaft is greatly appreciated...
Thanks
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Before you waste time puting it on take it to a driveline shop and have the balance checked. They won't be able to fix it but at least you'll know and have the u joints stress relieved.
If the phasing marks are not visable you will have to phase it by trial and error.....explained in the shop manual.
Put the car on a lift so you can drop the exhaust, then 2 people to install.
If the phasing marks are not visable you will have to phase it by trial and error.....explained in the shop manual.
Put the car on a lift so you can drop the exhaust, then 2 people to install.
Update:
the drive shaft from the yard arrived with a bad U joint - it is on its way back for full refund - my cost=some wasted time. However; I did find a shop in town that will press out the old joints and put a new one in there. Believe it or not, he showed me a parts manual that had the part number for the new U joint for Q45 (90-96) - so contrary to the popular claim, the joints can be replaced [as claimed by the shop, I have no clue how well it would come out but they were guaranteeing their work]. The price he quted me was: $45 (unbelieveable...) and $65 to balance it - this is a specialty driveline joint in Phoenix, AZ [let me know if anyone needs their contact info] - I saw them putting a brand new line [made locally] into a Nissan truck.
In my case I took the drive shaft that came from the yard for balancing ($65). Before doing anything with the spare shaft, they jacked up the car from behind and noted that the shaft at least visually looks solid with no vibration [under varying speeds]- at the same time the right rear tire (passenger) was hopping and walking at the same time, the driver rear tire was not that bad, very slight walking. He told me to get it fixed before spending any more money on the drive shaft [the folks seemed very friendly and sincere]
This is the second time I was told this. The car had 4 new tires on them a few months ago (2K miles) - Yokahama YK420. I was told the same thing by Cottman transmission folks as well --> drive shaft looks ok, first get the walking/hopping taken care of. So I went to the discount tires and they replaced all 4 tires with a new set of YK420s - still the same two rear tires and walking and hopping with the same relative strength.
Leads me to believe that I may have a problem with the bearing or the half shafts, or even the wheels. Can you guys suggest some testing that I can try to figure out why the tire is walking and hopping - the driveline folks very adamant that the tires look funky - he was saying the wheel was looking steady, the tires were walking and hopping - but how come two separate set of tires end up doing the same thing on the same wheel, seems unlikely that it is the tire - more likely the wheel bearing, axle shafts, etc. I tried wobbling the rear tire while it was jacked up and could not find any play. But the walking and hopping was visually obvious and is certainly there.
Thanks
the drive shaft from the yard arrived with a bad U joint - it is on its way back for full refund - my cost=some wasted time. However; I did find a shop in town that will press out the old joints and put a new one in there. Believe it or not, he showed me a parts manual that had the part number for the new U joint for Q45 (90-96) - so contrary to the popular claim, the joints can be replaced [as claimed by the shop, I have no clue how well it would come out but they were guaranteeing their work]. The price he quted me was: $45 (unbelieveable...) and $65 to balance it - this is a specialty driveline joint in Phoenix, AZ [let me know if anyone needs their contact info] - I saw them putting a brand new line [made locally] into a Nissan truck.
In my case I took the drive shaft that came from the yard for balancing ($65). Before doing anything with the spare shaft, they jacked up the car from behind and noted that the shaft at least visually looks solid with no vibration [under varying speeds]- at the same time the right rear tire (passenger) was hopping and walking at the same time, the driver rear tire was not that bad, very slight walking. He told me to get it fixed before spending any more money on the drive shaft [the folks seemed very friendly and sincere]
This is the second time I was told this. The car had 4 new tires on them a few months ago (2K miles) - Yokahama YK420. I was told the same thing by Cottman transmission folks as well --> drive shaft looks ok, first get the walking/hopping taken care of. So I went to the discount tires and they replaced all 4 tires with a new set of YK420s - still the same two rear tires and walking and hopping with the same relative strength.
Leads me to believe that I may have a problem with the bearing or the half shafts, or even the wheels. Can you guys suggest some testing that I can try to figure out why the tire is walking and hopping - the driveline folks very adamant that the tires look funky - he was saying the wheel was looking steady, the tires were walking and hopping - but how come two separate set of tires end up doing the same thing on the same wheel, seems unlikely that it is the tire - more likely the wheel bearing, axle shafts, etc. I tried wobbling the rear tire while it was jacked up and could not find any play. But the walking and hopping was visually obvious and is certainly there.
Thanks
firstq wrote:I would be surprised if everyone on this board would come out and state that they knew the cost structure of a used Q45 ownership when they bought a 10 year old one of the street for around 5K [and this being their first luxo car] - but you never know.
You're right -- I didn't know what I was getting into, but almost every dollar (and hour) I've spent on the Q has been for *preventive* maintenance (which beats the heck out of repairs). Without cautionary words from this group, particularly from Dennis (q45tech) I probably wouldn't have spent even that, but I would be looking at bigger bills later.
Nothing has failed on my car in my 20 months of ownership. The knock sensors are all that failed in the 5 years previous. As far as I can tell, the knock sensors and the transmission are all that have -ever- failed! Not bad for a car with almost 170K on it! The original Q was a superior engineering effort. Compare it to V8 Mercedes Benz of the period (I have owned several -- I know), and I think you'll agree.
You have to consider the "high performance" aspect. Get "the most" out of any particular part, and you run it closer to the ragged edge of failure. It doesn't matter whether it comes from Tokyo, Stutgart, or Modena -- physics is physics. People pay $8000 for Ferrari tuneups. Worth it? Hard to say, unless you accept that there's a different value system at work.
Heck, we'd all be driving Kias if $/mile was all that was important.
Went to Discount Tires and they road force balanced one more time and the vibration is still there - the tires were not out of balance in the first place, but they rechecked them to be sure.
How can one check out the rear subframe bushings? I am hesitant to do any work on the driveshaft only to find out if it is something else.
Is there a way to pursue the process of elimintation here by testing certain components and ruling out possibilities?
Thanks
How can one check out the rear subframe bushings? I am hesitant to do any work on the driveshaft only to find out if it is something else.
Is there a way to pursue the process of elimintation here by testing certain components and ruling out possibilities?
Thanks
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Q45tech
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Tell me what the road force imbalance in pounds was: Many dealers want you to think 20 pounds is ok but I have found that 5 pounds is feelable at certain speeds!
If it rotates it has a period [the time it takes to complete 1 revolution] . If a tire does 800 per mile it is 800/60 seconds or 13.3 Hz. A drive shaft is faster by the diff ratio or 3.538 ................you have to measure the frequency of the vibration [frequencies as there may be multiples at the same time].
The engine and the flywheel, the torque convertor, the alternator, the AC compressor, the fan, all the pullies, all have different rotational periods thus a different frequency.There 4 slugs [3 on a V6] of exhaust gas every rpm so at 60 [2000 rpm] there 33.33 HZ /4 or multiplied by 4 and everything in between frequencies generated
Without expensive displacement accelrometer and acoustic spectrum analyser you are at the mercy of the technicans experience ...what defect causes which vibration.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/...1.htmh ... uc...4.PDF
If it rotates it has a period [the time it takes to complete 1 revolution] . If a tire does 800 per mile it is 800/60 seconds or 13.3 Hz. A drive shaft is faster by the diff ratio or 3.538 ................you have to measure the frequency of the vibration [frequencies as there may be multiples at the same time].
The engine and the flywheel, the torque convertor, the alternator, the AC compressor, the fan, all the pullies, all have different rotational periods thus a different frequency.There 4 slugs [3 on a V6] of exhaust gas every rpm so at 60 [2000 rpm] there 33.33 HZ /4 or multiplied by 4 and everything in between frequencies generated
Without expensive displacement accelrometer and acoustic spectrum analyser you are at the mercy of the technicans experience ...what defect causes which vibration.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/...1.htmh ... uc...4.PDF