94 Q45: Tension Rod/Arm Bushings

[shaginator]

(FYI 94 Q45 133K; front tension rod bushings are all shot out of grease)

Anyone find substitues for the OEM tension rod bushings?

I'm guessing that there might be an equivalent out there in the aftermarket... I wouldn't even mind greasable poly-u's if that meant a more stable ride. For example how about one for a 300zx or a 280sx? What are the Q's dimensions for this part?

They're not out yet, but I'm making a parts list before going further... plus I've got that other valve (rocker) cover to do and then there's that aluminum octopus to be wrestled with...

Thanks again!:D

[AZhitman]

Tension rods have silicon-filled bushings. Not cost-effective to substitute anything other than OEM parts to my knowledge, and they are a critical component. They're approx $80 each at Infiniti of Scottsdale.

[shaginator]

There are "performance" type bushing replacements. Not really the hard polyurethane, but resembles rubber. Probably silicone, though not the same as you reference (stiff gel vs. a greasy substance). I know they exist cars like the 240sx and are relatively easy to replace if you have a good vise.

However, it may be wishful thinking on my part. The price you refer to sounds like that's the whole tension rod... I suppose it might be worth replacing each unit (saves a lot of sweat, too). However, I have seen this done many times.

[911/Q45]

Stillen sells adjustable tension rods that have a heim joint instead of a bushing. They are expensive, but you can adjust caster.

[Chally]

The tension rod bushing superseeded to a larger one. In what year? I don't know, but it was after 94.

That may be why you may get the whole rod.

The New bush has an OD of 79mm.

[AZhitman]

Wishful thinking is right - The ones on the Q are actually a silicone-filled bushing, not simple to R&R and probably cheaper to just replace the whole arm.

Should be an easy task for almost anyone.

[Sopdadope]

It is much easier to buy completely new tension rods with the oem silicone-filled bushings than try to replace the bushings alone with aftermarket ones.

If you're really set on doing it though, the Energy Suspension bushings, model #7.7105G will work. In order to change it, you'll need a vice and a heavy-duty sledge hammer to "bust" the old ones out. This sounds pretty straight-forward but is more than a handful.

The ES bushings made a huge improvement in the "feel" and stability of the car. I didn't notice any degradation in ride quality.

[Sopdadope]

Also, on the packaging of the Energy Suspension bushings, it may say "for Nissan 240SX" or "for Nissan 300ZX" but they work for the Q just the same. If the '94 tension rods are compatible with earlier Q's, they should work.

[AZhitman]

Soph - What'd those ES bushings cost you?

I have a buddy with a big-a$$ hydraulic bushing press.... Hmmmmm.

[Sopdadope]

Well...I have a pair I'm willing to part with for $25shipped if you're interested.

[AZhitman]

Cool - Let me see when my buddy can press 'em.

[shaginator]

If you're really set on doing it though, the Energy Suspension bushings, model #7.7105G will work. In order to change it, you'll need a vice and a heavy-duty sledge hammer to "bust" the old ones out. This sounds pretty straight-forward but is more than a handful.

Wow... that's what I needed to know. Thanks for the part number

I've removed bushings from another old car once before with a machinst's vise, drill, and metal saw... Popped new bushings in with the same vise. I can always send the pieces to a friend who has the "right" equipment. If I'm successful with a DIY job, I'll try to post pictures later.

[Q45tech]

Just remember each piece of suspension is tuned as a whole.The wheel position and movement is a function of everything working as designed, so stiffening the foreaft movement by using something else besides the silicone filled isolation bushing will change braking because the toe/caster may not increase as designed with a stiffer bushing.

Not to mention vibration changes with a more direct coupling of the wheel to frame.

[firstq]

AZhitman: I replaced mine with OEM bushings ($30 a pair from Midway infiniti locally) - had em pressed at a local machine shop - total cost was $40 as opposed to $160+.

[bryq45]

For the past month or so, i have felt slight vibrations as i drove my 93 Q. (117 K miles/ New Jersey)Yesterday I noticed a slight knocking and tapping noise I jacked it up, and noticed that the tension rod bushings on the left and right sides were worn. I called Scottsdale (not sure which one of the geltlemen I spoke with). He told me that the bushings were around $15 bucks each and to replace the whole rod would be about $87 each.

I then spoke with the local dealer. He told me that they didnt stock and do not sell the bushings, only the entire tension rod. Then he tried to sell me the whole rod for $145 Each (HAAA!!))Sounds like ill be calling Scottsdale back.

The local dealer's justification for not stocking the bushings was that after the old bushings are pressed out, and new one pressed in, the "ride is never the same". He also claimed that when people do that, the tires wear faster, and i would have to rotate them pracically every other week, and then it would cause premature wear on my upper links.

To the mere do it yourselfer and inexperienced home mechanic like myself, this is scary stuff that he describes. Im wondering if there is any validity to his statement.

Is there a reason to replace the whole rod, if only the bushing is bad?

firstq, have your tires worn faster, and did your upper links go bad after the bushing replacement?Bry

[shaginator]

The local dealer's justification for not stocking the bushings was that after the old bushings are pressed out, and new one pressed in, the "ride is never the same". He also claimed that when people do that, the tires wear faster, and i would have to rotate them pracically every other week, and then it would cause premature wear on my upper links.

I smell something bad, and it's fresh, big, and brown... yeah, over there next to the cattle hoofprints. :rolleyes

Comparing apples to apples, if the job is "done right" then replacing a just the bushings or the whole tension rod should give you the same results. "Done right" in either case includes making sure stuff like the (old or new) TR itself isn't damaged or bent, that installation of the bushings doesn't damage or bend anything, and that you perform a wheel alignment after the job is done. "Done right" could also include changes to other bushings, or whole assemblies.

A better answer from that silly dealer could have been simply, "Sorry, we just don't stock those." And leave it at that. But then that wouldn't make him a good salesman.

[DAEDALUS]

A better answer would be that the extra labor involved doesn't make up for the difference in price, though I don't know that I agree with that. And I totally agree with Shaginator-fresh, big, brown and smelly. It's possible to screw up the job, but that's true with anything you do. Ask anyone who's replaced the bushing--there are some on this board--the bushing replacement itself isn't that difficult. "The ride is never the same". Yeah, it should be better!

[natsoundup]

I still haven't been able to determine if I need new tension rods....

The links and shocks are done....but I don't have any signs that they need to be replaced..... the alignment holds well.......sure the edges of the tire feather a bit.... still get 30k per tire...when I rotate every 6k miles....

I want to do the tension rods....just looking for a sign....

[Highway Q45]

FirstQ,

Do you recall the Infiniti part # for the bushings only? I think it would be easier to call a countermans bluff if a OEM number is provided; before the doo doo gets to deep. I have access to a large press and the savings you claim is more in line with my supply of Q dollars. Thanks for the great tip!

Steve

[AZhitman]

Call Joe at Scvottsdale - He has the bushings for $16 each.

[jtesensky]

If your looking for a sign, they will leak. Check the bottom of the rod bushing and you'll probably find some fluid. Here's that factory P/N: 54476-35F20 (times two). I sell them to NICO members for $15.09 Ea. (include tax if you're in AZ). Shipping is very minimal. BTW don't listen to your local guy, if they weren't meant to be pressed in & out Infiniti wouldn't sell them seperate.-Joe

[Highway Q45]

Thanks for the part number. This couldn't come at a better time knowing that mine are all twisted and cracked badly. I defintely don't see anything resembling a leak though so either it's all leaked out or will soon. Time to give Joe a call.

[BHurvitz]

There are some after market adjustable tension rods like the stillen ones, without the stillen name on them. the have a bearingand are adjustable. Fit q45, 300zx and a few others. A guy sells them on ebay. Just search q45 or 300zx. I picked up a new pair for $120. Not bad

[texasoil]

Having replaced just the bushings on both of my Q45a's I do not see the problem.

The OEM replacement bushings are just like new. They DO have a correct and incorrect orientation (one half is softer than the other) and the alignment arrow has to go the right way. These are MUCH simpler than same function bushings/mounts used in MBZ, and they NEVER replace entire arm, always just the bushings

Also, the front arm mounting bolts must the tightened up only with car at normal ride height to avoid prestressing the new bushings.

Dealer makes a lot on new parts sale and installation.

[shaginator]

Gotta add that I replaced the tension rod bushings with the Energy Suspension 7.7105G as a DIY project.

Quite a bit of work, as expected, but fun and educational for a guy who likes to experiment. I'm guessing an average DIY'er might find the way I went about this a bit frustrating... but heck, I got to play with a torch!

After removing the tension rod assembly from the car, I used a 6" vise, big hammer, pipe couplings, a narrow chisel (or big screwdriver), and a propane torch.

My first attempt was to just try to press-out the bushing with the vise and the pipe couplings (one coupling fit the outher ring of the bushing, and the other fit outside of that on the tension rod). Didn't give. No surprise. Sledgehammer? Was hard to get everything to balance. So I did it this way:

Removal of the bushing involved cutting-out the center sleeve and most of the outer rubber and then pressing that middle chunk out (vise + pipe couplings method). Then using a low-profile hacksaw, cutting through the outer ring of the bushing out to the tension rod (without scoring the tension rod itself) at 90-degree positions to each other.

I then heated that inner ring to soften the metal, but not too hot that it affects the tension rod itself (the tension rod metal is very strong and thick, but the bushing ring is softer, almost like brass and much thinner). Burned some of the rubber and grease, of course... but it wasn't that bad since the garage is well-ventilated.

Once that ring was heated, I hammered a narrow chisel (or screwdriver) near the cut... that bent away part of the bushing ring from the tension rod. When the assembly cooled, I was able to easily remove the rest of the bushing with light taps of the hammer and chisel.

To press-in the new poly bushing, I greased up the bushing and inside of the TR with synthetic grease, and for good measure put on a good amount of synthetic 10w-40. With a vise and wooden planks, I just pressed them in. It went in easily, and probably easier than OEMs. Once that first ridge goes in, the rest is really easy... putting a pipe coupling on the TR part of the ring allows the ridge to get over to the other side and "lock" into place.

The updated assembly went back on quite easily.

Driving -- well, compared to the old bushings, the ride is much better. New Tokico blues helped a lot too.

Exaggerated negative camber was noticeably decreased, but still noticeably negative. Turning performance still stable and much better than the old bushings, of course. Overall the ride was stiffer but expectedly more responsive, and there was no difference in braking.

Anyway got both front and rear struts in with new rubber pieces. I think in the near future I'm gonna upgrade to polyurethanes most everywhere else, esp. swaybar stuff to see what that feels like.

It still "feels" like a Q45, and overall, I'm very satisfied.

I'll post pictures of the new TR bushings, and some of the R&R when there's more time.

As I've said before, I couldn't have done this job without NICO forums handy.

[bryq45]

Glad to hear it worked out for you Shaginator! :-)

I just got my OEMs from Scottsdale. Im gonna attempt to attach a pic.

I do have a concern because there is an arrow and a small notch that protrudes from the rubber. Do I have to take that into consideration when pressing the bushing in to the tension rod?

Also, how expensive is a 'vise'. Would I be better off paying that one time fee for that tool, versus paying twenty bucks per press to my local guy?

[Mayhem_J30]

I do have a concern because there is an arrow and a small notch that protrudes from the rubber. Do I have to take that into consideration when pressing the bushing in to the tension rod?

good question as i will be doing this shortly.

Shaginator,will the urethane bushings squeek or make any noises? I have some grease recommended by a suspension shop just for urethane bushings, so I'm wondering if the tension rod bushings should be greased down just as well to prevent noise.

BTW, urethane bushings made by Energy Suspension and sold by Courtesy Nissan costs less then OEM bushings. A lot less...well not at Joe's price, but someone elses.

[shaginator]

On the OEMs -- yep, the arrow is very important.

First, the innermost sleeve is a tad off center. Second, on the inside, there is a solid rubber/polymer piece attached to that sleeve that is oval-shaped and needs to be oriented correctly with respect to the tension rod, to give the right "feel"... as well as fit; this may also affect wheel alignment.

As for vise, I think the 6" ones run around $60-80 these days. Smaller ones will run much cheaper, but I had to have one at least that big to do the job.

(I like having plenty of tools around, and will usually buy what I need for a project if I don't have it already. Unless it's a highly specialized tool or heavy machinery, it has almost always paid for itself after the first use).

[Sopdadope]

Shaginator, I'm glad the bushings worked out for you! The ES tension rod bushings are the only polyurethane bushings I have upfront and I absolutely love the steering feel now. A friend of mine, the one who owned the black Q45 I sold, said it felt like he was driving an entirely different, much sportier car.

BTW, you wouldn't have found those bushings anywhere for the price I sold them to ya (much less, with free priority shipping). I have some ES subframe bushings, rear sway bar bushings (23mm for my custom bar), etc.

A real PIA to remove though, I totally understand. I had them secured by a vice and busted out the old bushings with a 20 lb. sledgehammer.

[Sopdadope]

good question as i will be doing this shortly.

Shaginator,will the urethane bushings squeek or make any noises?

Somewhat. But it's not highly audible. In fact, you wouldn't even really noticed it unless you tried to. I was supplied with a long squeeze tube of Energy Suspension grease. It's worked out very well.