9/11 Pentagon Attack - Conspiracy?

[jdmfreak]

IDK? Maybe the part where your spelling was worse than my 6 year old brother's? Who really know though. Its a mystery I tell ya. A mystery.

[creophus]

1. how can a commercial flight go off course and no response from the FAA???? 2. why no response from NORAD? 3. how can a commercial flight, with no contact with the pilots, fly for 40 min. toward washington dc????? 4. the pentagon IS a no fly zone to unidentified aircraft!!!!! 5. why were no F-16's scrammbled to identify the unknown aircraft???? 6. IF we assume they were scrammbled too late,,,,,WHO turned off the pentagon's surface to air missle defense system as the last line of defense to protect the building (this is computer controlled, so a human had to disengage the protection system)???????? 7. how can all of these rules of procedure cease to function during this flight, yet we all don't want to question the "official" story????? all of these things would never fail all at the same time. our military is constantly drilled with these procedures,,,,not to mention the FAA, air traffic controllers, airlines, and NORAD. look at their literature! i really wish one of our military members would explain how all this could have happened. remember,,,not one member in these chain of commands lost their jobs for their GROSS incompetance! they're still guarding all of us!!!!!! scary, huh????? conspiracy,,,,,,or common sense???? just pointing out the facts,,,hard to stomach for some who don't like to think they could be lied to so easily. ps---just looking for facts as to why my thinking is wrong

I don't know the answer to most of your questions...but I'm bored at work...so what the heck? First off, here's a tip, whenever you post to a thread like this, using lots of question marks and exclamation points makes you look irrational. It's equivalent to screaming and waving your hands in the air. Refrain from doing that if you want people to take you more seriously. I'm not trying to make this personal, so please don't take it that way.

Suppose it was conspiracy and it was not a 757. What was it that hit the pentagon then? I mean we see pictures and we KNOW SOMETHING hit it right? Perhaps it was a missle of some sort. Who ordered the missle to hit the pentagon? It would either have to be a terrorlst...or someone from our military. If it was a terrorlst, then the Bush admin or someone is covering up a terrorists strike with a story about a terrorlst strike? Hardly seems like a cover up. It would be much easier to justify how a missle got past our defenses than how a huge passenger plane got by. It would be an unnecessary lie to cover up something.

Suppose it was our military that ordered the strike on a building that houses more military and civillian personnel. What would that accomplish? It would make the nation want to go to war. At least that's what I think. But if the military wanted to go to war (and I think they did), why do it to ourselves when there are plenty of real terrorists who would gladly blow up the pentagon. Wouldn't it be easier to turn a blind eye to some known activity? I think that's where the real conspiracy theorists (sp?) should be looking. But enough of that.

If it wasn't a 757, then what happened to flight 77? The plane is missing and people are gone, what happened to them? Is this some sort of experiement like in the movie, "The Forgotten"?

Here's what I think happened:Assuming our government is "innocent"--or ignorant of any pending attack.

A plane goes off course over Washington D.C. and someone at the FAA sees it on radar. Either they are too concerned with what the heck just happend in New York or they haven't heard about the two crashes that just happened. If they hadn't heard about the crashes, the person observing the radar follows some formal procedure about what to do when a plane is X number of miles off course. The plane has X number of minutes to respond. If plane does not respond, then a second attempt is made to contact them. By this time someone higher up the chain gets notified and the situation escalates. Regardless of how that all happens, the FAA now has a plane that it can't communicate with flying into D.C. It's concern is probably to make sure that the flight path isn't going to intersect with other air traffic until it can get more info, etc. etc.

The plane being off course is not going to be met with an immediate military strike. What's the FAA to do? Should they call up the nearest military base and have fighters scrambled? How much would that cost? How long would that take? What if they were wrong? What would you do if it were you sitting at the radar? Would you panic or would you try to remain calm? But suppose the fighters are scrambled... now what? You shoot down a passenger plane simply because you can't raise the pilots on radio? What if the radio was out (highly unlikely I know)? Who's going to order shooting down a passenger plane full of civilians over the city that's also full of civilians?

Making the decision to shoot that plane down would have ended anyone's career if they were wrong. And how would you know that you were right once the plane crashed and everyone aboard was dead? All everyone would know is that you just shot down a civilian aircraft and it crashed in city limits and lots and lots of people are dead. No way you could prove that it was going to hit the pentagon. No one would belive that even though the twin towers got destroyed. Then we'd be discussing how evil our military is for shooting down civilians. That's also the reason that a computer controlled (which is never solely controlled by computers) missle system would not have been used. You could have a giant ray gun pointed at that plane that could have vaporized the aircraft instantly with the touch of a button and it still would not have been authorized for use. The sophistication of the technology is totally irrelevant. No one would authorize a strike on American civilians over the nation's capital.

This type of attack had never been done before, most people didn't believe it could/would ever happen. This is very similar to what happened to us in Pearl Harbor. The planes showed up on radar. The system was new and they were told its probably just our forces returning or a radar malfunction. They didn't seriously suspect that the enemy would make it out that far and actually attack them. It would be a suicide mission. Well we know now that is exactly the case in 9/11 and Pearl Harbor. Since then, fighters have been scrambled a number of times, but nothing has actually been done to bring an aircraft down out of the sky.

[VashFC]

First of all, I'm sorry for the repost. *Stupid - Stupid*

Anyway, the only reason that I (re)posted this was to promote some healthy skepticism. People just seem to believe everything they read in the newspaper or watch on TV. Jesda, don't get the idea that I saw this video and considered it the truth. I just find it thought provoking. Regardless of whether it's the case or not, it does provoke though and raise some interesting points. I wasn't trying to stir any **** up. I was just trying to get people thinking.... which seems to be in a desperate lacking these days. I just don't feel comfortable blindly believing everything that's on TV or in the newspaper. I like to look at all the sides of the story. People just forget to take these things with a grain of salt... Mass media publications and Internet articles alike.

- Chris

[JustinStrife]

IDK? Maybe the part where your spelling was worse than my 6 year old brother's? Who really know though. Its a mystery I tell ya. A mystery.

ahh give him a break bro. He's probably still drunk from the Red Sox World Series win.

[240marcuSX]

"Ya know, logic would say that thats virtually impossible...the plane is travelling very quickly and chances are decent they weren't THAT close. However, its always interesting to me how the brain reacts to extreme stress (I think watching an emminent plane crash would put you into a "stress" mode of thinking). When I've been in moments where something terrible was happening it typically felt as if time was slowing down, and everything became much more vivid and clear. Perhaps something similar happened with your mom and the people she worked with? Or...the "expressions" were just constructs of their brain...completely added in for personal effect."

i agree with you nathan, im thinking it was just what youre talking about, she "thinks" she saw the faces, but logically it IS impossible, what with the plane being at least 50-100 yds away, and the windows being what 18"x10"?? and then you've got how fast the plane was going, and then you have the time frame that the plane was actually in view, maybe im the first to ever say this but

mom, i gotta raise the flag on you.

but the story that she told me the evening of the 11th i believe because it makes since, she said that her and a fellow female employee were near some window and they heard someone scream, so they turned around and looked out the window and they could actually feel the heat from the explosion, and then everybody sort-of rushed out of there. it took me forever to get her on the phone that afternoon because all the lines were tied.

[Jesda]

All is well. I just saw the post so many times I became frustrated.

[nuQ]

my intention of replying to the original post wasn't to start trouble, but to get people thinking outside the notion that everything they are force-fed by the news media (in business to make money, not tell you the truth, i.e-dan rather), or the people running our govt (btw-do i hate our govt?, absolutely not, just the people who have decimated the principals which it was founded on). jesda, cnn is not running the video, or at least, i can't download it, but, the stills from the security film show NO plane hitting the building. i'm not finger pointing, would just like some intelligent answers to these questions. and to creophus, the air traffic controllers, FAA, NORAD, and the military have very specific protocols dealing with ANY plane off course, no radio contact and/or their transponder turned off (all of which flight 77 had). flight 77 ceased responding at 8:50 (6 min. later the transponder was turned off). impact at the pentagon at 9:43. flight 11 crashed into the world trade center at 8:46, flight 175 at 9:03. the military knew we were being attacked, with plenty of time to scramble fighters to intercept this unknown flight (77). i repeat, this is standard protocol! if you don't believe this, do some research into the golfer payne stewarts lear jet that decompressed. two F-16's were scrambled immediatly when radio contact was lost. they first try to make radio contact, then fly close enough to view the cockpit to see who is behind the controls. are we to believe that a golfer's lear jet is considered more dangerous to this country than a hijacked boeing 757 on 9/11? i was just looking for members who would be willing to look past the headlines, past the "official" explanation (do any of us still believe the warren commission report was not a farce? remember congress in the 70's admitted that there was a conspiracy in JFK's murder), and use common sense when going over ALL the facts of that day. i'm not a conspiracy nut, but what happened on that day forever changed this country. the events following 9/ll will impact generations (those who dared to question the president following 9/ll were branded "traitors" or "taliban lovers"). exactly the thought process we are supposidly trying to wipe out in the middle east! vitally important to look at these events with a skeptical eye, and, an open mind. telling someone they must "hate the govt." instead of ingaging in an intelligent dialoge to either prove or disprove what they are saying, is what keeps events like 9/ll able to repeat itself (or to justify a war on a country that had nothing to do with 9/ll while sweeping the person we were all told was responsible right under the rug). would love to hear from a military person or ideally an air traffic controller (BTW- to the best of my knowledge, no one has been allowed to interview the air traffic controllers on duty that day) to explain why all went wrong that day. like, i said, if my thought process is wrong, will gladly admit to that. tried to keep my caps, exclamation points, and question marks to a minimum

[nuQ]

http://www.informationclearing...0.htm

for any of us that think i'm nuts and there couldn't be any involvement from our govt., or a coverup, or a complete lie, check out this site. word of advice,,,open your mind first

so frightning to think this was from over 40 years ago!

[creophus]

I am a bit of a conspiracy theory nut myself. I post a lot of info trying to address the questions that were brought up. Here's my personal opininon. "Somebody" knew this was going to happen, and for whatever reason it wasn't prevented.

[MaineExport]

"Somebody" knew this was going to happen, and for whatever reason it wasn't prevented.

"Somebody" has a name.... it begins with an "O" and rhymes with your "momma"!

The reason it wasn't prevented is because he's NOT on our side!!

[AZhitman]

Just to add to Creophus's post at the top of the page (well done, C!), there has been a lot of speculation about "where is the wreckage" and "why wasn't there more damage to the building"?

Has anyone ever seen the videos of the passenger jet hitting the reinforced concrete wall at 300mph? There's literally NOTHING identifiable left, except parts of the jet turbines. The wall escapes unharmed, some minor displacement of the surface and some scorching from the subsequent fire.

A passenger plane is a fairly fragile object, more space than matter. It's not compact and dense like a car or truck. It's made of lightweight, thin metals, and heavily loaded with fuel. Nothing theat really packs a wallop. Even the occupants are - you guessed it - made up of 85% water.

Planes that crash during takeoff (recall the Air Florida jet that went down in the Potomoc in '92) are traveling at relatively low speeds and altitude, and leave immense chunks of wreckage.

Contrast that with the 9/11 flight that went down in PA. Full-speed, nose-first, into an immoveable object - the ground. No wreckage that is identifiable as an aircraft.

Conspiracies are remarkably hard to market in an age where information is as close as your fingertips and misinformation spreads like the flu.

[nuQ]

thanks greg for not going for the easy name-calling and posting an intelligent reply (not being sarcastic). 1st thing, i believe something hit the pentagon, there's just really no solid proof that it was a 757. if we believe that a very fragile (i agree), commercial aircraft hit a heavily reinforced concrete wall (said to be reinforced in case of a nuclear explosion) and disintegrated, which part of the plane could make it to the third wall and cause the 16 foot round hole seen in photos. official reports claim, either the nose (cant believe that, the nose is mostly all radar equiptment), or an engine, but in the pics not a single piece of a 757 engine can be seen. if it was intact to make that hole, surely a large enough piece of the engine would be visiable (after all, by that point it wouldn't be travelling at 500mph (the two other walls would have slowed it considerably). it's amazing, though, how much wreckage can make it through a full speed impact and still be recognizable. check out the wreckage from july 2002 when the russian airliner and the DHL cargo plane collided at 36,000 feet. another interesting point you made was about no wreckage in PA. Reuters reported (sept. 13, 2001) that the PA state police had stated that debris had been found 8 miles away in a residential community with local residents quoted as seeing a second plane and flaming debris falling from the sky. they (the FBI and the state police) eventually confirmed that they cordoned off a second area six to eight miles away from the initial crash site, which raises serious question to the official story of a nose first crash in a field. http://www.newsmedianews.com i wish someone could comment on the complete collapse of our air defenses (FAA, NORAD, Air Force, missle defense systems) during that crucial 2-3 hour period. how could this have happened??? in the year 2000 there was 125 instances where F-16's were scrambled to intercept unknown aircraft. why were they all too late in that time period???? i spoke with a friend in the air force who really hadn't looked at things from this perspective, and after going over the official timeline of events, where bases are located and official response protocol to highjacked airliners, he was left speechless. it makes NO sense if you use your common sense. all i'm doing is asking the questions we should all be asking our elected officials who were in charge that day. always look beyond the headlines and the talking heads, the real truth to any story is never summed up on the front page. before we attack those of us that question what we are force fed, always ask yourself if there is any validity to the points being made. i agree, though, that it is very tough to have to re-examine your belief system. ps--did any one check out that link about the declassified doc from 1962 about staging terrorlst attacks by our own govt???? very scary stuff

[StrangeLove]

Please explain the picture I posted earlier, anyone

I'll post it again

[nuQ]

pills,,,,i'm with you. explain with a little science, fact or common sense, i'll take any of the three,,,,,,anyone!!!!!??? don't blame me,,,,after 12 years of catholic school, i'm sceptical by nature

[DR.Q]

Post removed by me.
Modified by DR.Q at 12:37 AM 11/2/2004

[MaineExport]

Until then........ Big Foot, the Lock Ness Monster, Champ (he's a local Vermont Lake Champlain monster), and Chewbacka exist.

[gabossie]

Heh, in the case of those creatures, the stories say they exist and evidence says they don't... people tend to believe the evidence. W/ the Pentagon, the stories say a plane hit it, but evidence points elsewhere, but people believe the stories...

[audtatious]

Here are two sites that show parts of the wreckage which includes parts of the engines and rims of the 757. If you still doubt, you always will...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/....html

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

[StrangeLove]

The above top secret link is the best attempt so far, but ill stick with

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm

[jdmfreak]

Damn! Hard to believe otherwise after reading those. I was never a doubter though.

[S13hdg]

pills, whoever wrote that did a good job of putting together facts, but then they started talking about mind control in all of our foods and our music.

[StrangeLove]

I know, it gets abit off topic towards the end, but I agree with him that we are being controlled...

Quote »The fact that no Arabs were listed on the Manifest and exactly 20% occupancy on all 4 crashed flights is also an interesting aspect.[/quote]20% occupancy on all 4 9/11 flights. That makes no sense at all, being that airline companies double book all flights to insure planes are always at their max capacity... I smell conspiracy! (and it goes farther than just the pentagon...)

[Tsukai240]

http://www.infowars.com kerry is the antichricst. read revelations!