hey cody have you checked out my build updates. i need some input on it.

OK, a few more thoughts on this setup. At this point, I will be traveling a little off topic, but oh well.

@codyace:how is your launch control set up? Is it clutch activated, or vehicle speed?

I just got some information from atp turbo. Apparently, they will have a turbine housing for the gt30 turbine that will have a t25 inlet flange and either a 4-bolt or v-band outlet, designed for external WG, within a month. I thought that this would be a better option, but my concern is that the gt30 turbine is UHP, not an expansion of the NS111 that is used in the gt28. If it was a larger version of the ns111, I would think that a .64 gt3071 would probably outspool the gt2871. But with the UHP wheel, I'm not sure, and can't find anything concrete on the net. What are ya'lls thoughts on this?

I love this thread. I have been reading for about a month now and there is a ton of great info. Makes me even more excited to do my sr swap. I just figured I would chime in to say, mad props to you Cody on doing the research and putting forth the effort to get such a well constructed setup.

codyace;

When you built your head you replaced the HG, did you deck the block or just cleaned it off ? I was told that you need to deck the block before you drop the gasket and head back on. I'm not really wanting to touch the bottom end just yet though.

I'd like to see how the car performs with the head built.

^ Good question.

This thread is infinitely useful...

Alpha_Maverick wrote:@codyace:how is your launch control set up? Is it clutch activated, or vehicle speed?

Clutch activated, and via switch. Switch needs to be selected, and then it's clutch in, and wot. Little stutter action, dump the clutch, and off she goes. I'm actually have Clark put in a lower one, and a higher one...as 4k is to much for street tires, even making 4ish psi of the small stutter.

Alpha_Maverick wrote:I just got some information from atp turbo. Apparently, they will have a turbine housing for the gt30 turbine that will have a t25 inlet flange and either a 4-bolt or v-band outlet, designed for external WG, within a month. I thought that this would be a better option, but my concern is that the gt30 turbine is UHP, not an expansion of the NS111 that is used in the gt28. If it was a larger version of the ns111, I would think that a .64 gt3071 would probably outspool the gt2871. But with the UHP wheel, I'm not sure, and can't find anything concrete on the net. What are ya'lls thoughts on this?

I really hate the idea of gt30 on a t2 flange. They rock so hard with a topmount it's not funny. In fact, I think the smaller t3 housings outspool the t2 flanged variants. The .63 3071r is an easy 120+ trap speed car at 18 psi...full boost around 4800ish/5000ish rpm.

The NS111 is literally the T2 based wheel of choice, this side of the TR-30r Rally turbos. There isn't a turbo out there, this side of a gt28r and a t25 that will respond as fast. It is equal the disco potato (28RS .86) but with so much more top end.

tripleJs15 wrote:codyace;

When you built your head you replaced the HG, did you deck the block or just cleaned it off ? I was told that you need to deck the block before you drop the gasket and head back on. I'm not really wanting to touch the bottom end just yet though.

I'd like to see how the car performs with the head built.

\

I had both decked for straightness. If you're building a car, it shouldn't be your only car. Take the motor out and get it done, that way you won't need to potentially do the job twice. I would say the best way to prep both surfaces (if you can't take it out) would be to get an angle air tool and use 3M ROLOC discs.

codyace wrote:I had both decked for straightness. If you're building a car, it shouldn't be your only car. Take the motor out and get it done, that way you won't need to potentially do the job twice. I would say the best way to prep both surfaces (if you can't take it out) would be to get an angle air tool and use 3M ROLOC discs.

Was this when you did the bottom end build or when you built the head, I'm only wanting to build the head right now and build a spare block in the meantime. How large is a factor in reliability would it be if I cleaned the block off really well and deck the head ?

codyace wrote:I had both decked for straightness. If you're building a car, it shouldn't be your only car. Take the motor out and get it done, that way you won't need to potentially do the job twice. I would say the best way to prep both surfaces (if you can't take it out) would be to get an angle air tool and use 3M ROLOC discs.

The exact reason I built a second motor for my car instead of the one that was in my car. Builds always take longer than you'd like due to shop times, vendors taking forever to get your parts to you, or weird pitfalls/stop gaps you don't expect.

codyace wrote:I really hate the idea of gt30 on a t2 flange. They rock so hard with a topmount it's not funny. In fact, I think the smaller t3 housings outspool the t2 flanged variants. The .63 3071r is an easy 120+ trap speed car at 18 psi...full boost around 4800ish/5000ish rpm.

The NS111 is literally the T2 based wheel of choice, this side of the TR-30r Rally turbos. There isn't a turbo out there, this side of a gt28r and a t25 that will respond as fast. It is equal the disco potato (28RS .86) but with so much more top end.

OK, you are slightly misled. The gt30xx-wg is NOT the same backend as the gt30xx. the -wg versions have a cut down (reduced inducer diameter) turbine wheel, coupled with a bored out gt28 turbine housing. They are truly pathetic. In talking with ATP turbo, the one I am talking about is a full-size gt30 turbine wheel, in an appropriately sized turbine housing. It just happens to have a t25 inlet flange, and either a 4 bolt, or v-band outlet. It should have similar characteristics to the topmount, t3 based version, but with the potential to have it bottom mounted, as well as a potential for even better spool since you will be using a cast iron manifold. Extrude hone that! Not to mention the improved compressor housings of the gt30 series.

^ I'd like to now how that pans out.

Your car has inspired me. I will make 400whp or more from my GT28!

Do Work!

Alpha_Maverick wrote:OK, you are slightly misled. The gt30xx-wg is NOT the same backend as the gt30xx. the -wg versions have a cut down (reduced inducer diameter) turbine wheel, coupled with a bored out gt28 turbine housing. They are truly pathetic. In talking with ATP turbo, the one I am talking about is a full-size gt30 turbine wheel, in an appropriately sized turbine housing. It just happens to have a t25 inlet flange, and either a 4 bolt, or v-band outlet. It should have similar characteristics to the topmount, t3 based version, but with the potential to have it bottom mounted, as well as a potential for even better spool since you will be using a cast iron manifold. Extrude hone that! Not to mention the improved compressor housings of the gt30 series.

Ah, see that I didn't know! Interesting to note that as well!

In the same aspect however, It would be a toss up to me in these two aspects

1: Would it be worth spooling later than the 2871r, to have the potential for stronger top end power, while retaining the stock'ish' setup

or

2: Go top mount, and really use the gt30 series to it's true potential. Obviously this looses the stock look/appeak though...

I guess deep down, I still remember Clark from JWT saying that he's not a big fan of the gt30 turbos on the t2 flange due to some sort of 'inblanace' between compressor wheel and turbine wheel (he's like talking to mr wizard, so it was difficult to really get the exact answer in laymans terms)....and that reason alone was one of the initial reasons to look into the 2871r .64....

I guess the end result will be that the 30r will always make more power, but at the cost of response. I personally like being able to make 20 psi at 3500-3700 on the street (load), more than making 420-430 top ned that makes 20 psi at 4400 rpm....but some may look at the slightly later spool as a built in 'traction control' sort to speak hehe.

Either way, both setups will annilihate most cars they'll ever encounter....

Hijacker wrote:
The exact reason I built a second motor for my car instead of the one that was in my car. Builds always take longer than you'd like due to shop times, vendors taking forever to get your parts to you, or weird pitfalls/stop gaps you don't expect.

I'll vouch for that! I'm also a fan of 'never have a single car that is turbo'...as in, always have a backup beater car 'just in case'.

My car isn't a daily or even a weekly drive, but I dont want to pull the engine just to buikld the head, I also have a second block that I'm building. Again, how large a factor in reliability and sealing would it be if I cleaned the block off really well or ROLOC it and then decked the head ?


Modified by tripleJs15 at 12:25 PM 3/10/2008

Hijacker wrote:
The exact reason I built a second motor for my car instead of the one that was in my car. Builds always take longer than you'd like due to shop times, vendors taking forever to get your parts to you, or weird pitfalls/stop gaps you don't expect.

i bought a spare head just to build. the car will have a lot less downtime to swap n a built head then to pull the head thats on it, build and reinstall

tripleJs15 wrote:My car isn't a daily or even a weekly drive, but I dont want to pull the engine just to buikld the head, I also have a second block that I'm building. Again, how large a factor in reliability and sealing would it be if I cleaned the block off really well or ROLOC it and then decked the head ?

If it was my car, I'd spend the 50 bucks to get the head and block decked.

With that said, don't forget to include the oil pump cover when you do it.

I was wondering did you upgrade your valve springs and retainers? if so to what i've been debating on what to get.. in process of building my first sr and kinda stuck.. know what to build head before going with bigger turbo or bottom end work.. just going to do all new gaskets and bearings but other than that not sure.. i'm building an s13 redtop.. 89 coupe..

^ are you upgrading cams etc, according to cam specs like lift etc and how high are you planning on reving other goals...and so on determines springs/retainers and what components to go with

I would straight edge the h*ll out of the block if you haven't used roloc pads before.. know a guy who brought a block to the shop he tried cleaning himself.. put it this way spent to much time in one spot.. I'd go with getting it decked.. much more accurate.. course you could just use a belt sander with 40grit and shorten you cylinders lol

glad to say never seen that happen

wouldn't mind trying poncams or maybe some 264's of some type at first.. i'm all about kicking my *** out sideways. =) so would mos def need to upgrade my springs/retainers.. and i was thinking about solid lifters but reshimming every five k.... i'll just stick to my stock lifters. i'll just have to get a rev limiter and set to maybe 8 to 8,500.. and already have my rocker arm stoppers! thank god read about those wouldn't want to have to go through that problem.. lol

My valvetrain is stock. S3 cams do not require a change.

The cams you want are JWT S3 cams, as they match the 2871r .64 like they were designed around each other.

No reason to change it up.

Only change you would need to ever make, are to add springs and goto a JWT C1 cam.

Valve springs only, so stock retainers are just fine ?

If you're building it, get the JWT springs and retainers....however JWT springs can work with stock retainers...

^ Yeah thats what I thought, enthalpy engine build service didn't include retainers thats why I asked

can you explain how you made that intake again, and maybe a few more pics ?

And what was the overall lenght of the 3" pipe with the 45 deg ?
Modified by tripleJs15 at 8:18 PM 3/20/2008

i have BC springs and stock retainers. and bc cams.

hey cody i got my car running good now. there is a still staggering i nthe idle but i think i havea few more vacuum leaks to find

idahotuner wrote:i have BC springs and stock retainers. and bc cams.

hey cody i got my car running good now. there is a still staggering i nthe idle but i think i havea few more vacuum leaks to find

Good to hear mang! been a long winter!

tripleJs15 wrote:can you explain how you made that intake again, and maybe a few more pics ?

And what was the overall lenght of the 3" pipe with the 45 deg ?

I really don't have many. I'll take some measurements tomorrow for you, but I just bought a 3" 45 from Kteller (or was it ATP, i forget) and cut it to size. My main issue was creating room for the JWT popcharger....

The pop charger is huge, and some pics will be great, thanks.

I do have some pics on my gallery, but the server bit the bullet....the guy I host on is slowly moving everything onto a new super server (sort to speak)....

off topic question but just wanted to sneak it in for your personal opinion. For 500 whp do you think 95 lb injectors are way to overkill?

srdub-t wrote:off topic question but just wanted to sneak it in for your personal opinion. For 500 whp do you think 95 lb injectors are way to overkill?

500 whp is darn near at the limit of 72 lb injectors, so no, I don't think 96 lbs topfeed injectors would be to much. If anything, you can always tune them down. I know SARD offers an 815cc injector IRRC that would work, however I would stick with the topfeed style, and utilize the bigger fuel rail for that power level.

perfect thank bro.