Any of the big name brands (at this point) will work the same....Aquamist, SMC, etc etc.fullmetal wrote:wow this post is amazing. lots of good info. i would love to see the numbers you get with the meth kit by the way. i have been thinking of one for a while now but I havent decided on a specific kit yet
The question has been asked many times on the forum, but never in this tread....I figured it was a good reason for me to post up that little compressor map comparison for everyone to seetripleJs15 wrote:sorry dude i was already ticked about the first guy's stupid comment, its all good though......nice build
Yea i went last summer. Didn't do very well. It would spin damn near through first and 2nd.DrifterProdigy85 wrote:Cody, did you take it to the track yet?
At the time the 52 trim wasn't available. I was one of the first guys to really get involved with the 2871r .64, as most went to the .86 or 30r's.Alpha_Maverick wrote:You have the 48 trim and the 56 trim maps, but you didn't show the 52 trim. Is there a reason you didn't even consider it? Your choice obviously works, but I'm just wondering if the 52 trim might work just a little better? BTW, I plan on copying your setup with a few minor modifications. (tomei cams, custom fabricated intercooler setup, and blow-through Mass Air)
You are going to be *VERY* happyidahotuner wrote:i must have the 52 trim then. lol i have 264 cams. lol i know my setup will be more then enough to make me sh*t my self when i drive it.
The closer to the surge line on the left, typically is inducive of faster/quicker spool (more v8 like as I like to say)Alpha_Maverick wrote:I tend to agree with you on the compressor housing inlet/outlet configuration. I was wondering about the compressor map, but it looks like it would be pushing into surge right as it hit full boost @ 4k. 56 trim it is, then!
From experience on cars with both, I can soundly claim that drawthrough works better in all aspects aside from the rare situation that you may or may not blow a pipe off (or a coupler) Running drawthrough allows the use of smaller pipeing, which aids with spool up as well.Alpha_Maverick wrote:Blowthrough vs. Drawthrough? I've heard valid arguments on both sides of the fence, and as long as the turbo isn't leaking oil, I'm pretty sure I can set it up just fine
The advantage the s3's have is the 260 degree duration @ 11.3 lift. You're pretty much right on it all, but that slightly longer 'open' timeframe is where the power (namely midrange) is made.Alpha_Maverick wrote:apparently, Tomei, Jun, and HKS all have 256* Adv. Dur. cams with 11.5mm of lift. why would that not be better than the s3? Theoretically (I haven't found the full specs yet, still looking), they would have less overlap, and more flow when open, resulting in better response and less boost bleed at high rpms. Or am I missing something?
I was saying that the 52 trim would be experiencing surge, where the 56 is only borderline, at the 20psi@4k red dot. (I was reaffirming your choice)codyace wrote:The closer to the surge line on the left, typically is inducive of faster/quicker spool (more v8 like as I like to say)
80mm MAF leading to a 70mm (assuming I upgrade) TB isn't too bad, and on the hot side of the intercooler, I can run the same diameter as the turbo outlet.codyace wrote:From experience on cars with both, I can soundly claim that drawthrough works better in all aspects aside from the rare situation that you may or may not blow a pipe off (or a coupler) Running drawthrough allows the use of smaller pipeing, which aids with spool up as well.
Cobra and Z32 MAF's are a hot wire design, which means that a little oil will just get burned off. A lot of oil will screw it up, though. I will be using a flow straightener to prevent the turbulence issue, and I will have to experiment with positioning to find the best distance to avoid the resonance "problem".codyace wrote:It's also above and beyond the 'oil in pipes' situation too (mind you most big boost turbo cars, catch can and pcv all working will still sometimes have an oilly (slight) vapor in the pipes)....MAF's are really made to withstand the turbolence created from the actual boost 'hitting' the element. [...]You also fight odd resonance issues as well (much like a drawthrough being to close to the turbo).
Are you saying that the MAF sensor won't read the airflow right because it is hot? If so, that's not the case. There is a reason it is called MASS air flow, not VOLUME.codyace wrote:Also be known that with a hot turbo car, the blow through will hurt more power than a traditional draw through, due to intake charge being that much warmer due to the boost and the sort.
Here, I'm an idiot... The last engine I built was a 5.9 liter sbf. It has a 253/265 Adv. dur. (int./exh.) cam that runs out of breath at about 5k. I really should have known better. Again, the s13 has been a back burner project for a while. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it. I'll probably go with the S3's afterall.codyace wrote:The advantage the s3's have is the 260 degree duration @ 11.3 lift. You're pretty much right on it all, but that slightly longer 'open' timeframe is where the power (namely midrange) is made.
From the FWD spectrum, it seems as if the 256 cams always make similar torque, but for not nearly as long.
I'm still a fan of small pipe on both side. having gone from a custom setup on a friends car to the smaller sized pipe setup, I can say that I absolutly loved the slight bit of throttle response we gained on the smaller pipe.Alpha_Maverick wrote:80mm MAF leading to a 70mm (assuming I upgrade) TB isn't too bad, and on the hot side of the intercooler, I can run the same diameter as the turbo outlet.
Hot wire or not, they still fail from such issues. They just aren't designed to withstand that sort of use.Alpha_Maverick wrote:Cobra and Z32 MAF's are a hot wire design, which means that a little oil will just get burned off. A lot of oil will screw it up, though. I will be using a flow straightener to prevent the turbulence issue, and I will have to experiment with positioning to find the best distance to avoid the resonance "problem".
Still measurs how quickly the element heats up and the sort....that hot compressed air can sometimes trick the MAF into thinking things it's not.Alpha_Maverick wrote:Are you saying that the MAF sensor won't read the airflow right because it is hot? If so, that's not the case. There is a reason it is called MASS air flow, not VOLUME.
Hehe, a Windsor man I grew up Ford, so I can appreciate that....although I never graduated above the 302 grade (well one 331 turbo I've helped with hehe).Alpha_Maverick wrote:Here, I'm an idiot... The last engine I built was a 5.9 liter sbf. It has a 253/265 Adv. dur. (int./exh.) cam that runs out of breath at about 5k. I really should have known better. Again, the s13 has been a back burner project for a while. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it. I'll probably go with the S3's afterall.
I def didn't think such a thing. I actually love meeting new people that actually THINK about thier buildsAlpha_Maverick wrote:Sorry if I sound argumentative. I just want to make sure everything is perfectly clear, so that I can make the absolute best choice.
Thus my "special" intercooler setup. I am going to copy the concept of the project silvia (sport compact car magazine) intercooler, except make it better.codyace wrote:I'm still a fan of small pipe on both side. having gone from a custom setup on a friends car to the smaller sized pipe setup, I can say that I absolutly loved the slight bit of throttle response we gained on the smaller pipe.
codyace wrote:I think the ONLY maf equipped cars that have limited success with blow through are DSMs....but that may be the car gods way of laughing at them for the rest of their issues...
well, maybe I can be the second! (I'm going to at least try it. It would make the plumbing SOOOOO clean, it's worth a try, especially when I put my BOV underneath the hotpipe, hiding it from view. )codyace wrote:I guess in the short relm of things, I can only think of one person out of the 8-10 people I know who have gone blow through sr20 that still has his pipes in that orientation.
Wow. I didn't think you'd have me pegged so quick. So the 264-ish cams will run out of breath around 7.5k-8k? (-ish. I know that cam choice affects both rpms and turbo choices, etc. blah blah blah.)codyace wrote:Hehe, a Windsor man I grew up Ford, so I can appreciate that....although I never graduated above the 302 grade (well one 331 turbo I've helped with hehe).
And comparing v8 cams to import cams is really a hard thing to do too...the rules and durations just don't quite work 'the same' across the board. I think my best comparision as far as SR to SBF would be that a 256 would act more as an 'RV' cam, the 260-264 would be for more grunt/midrange (like the Comp XE cams), and the 268-272 for more of a 'high end/agressive' cam' (we'll call that solid) haha.
Maybe that comparison helps make sense?
Novel idea, huh? People who actually THINK before they spend good money on stuff.codyace wrote:I def didn't think such a thing. I actually love meeting new people that actually THINK about thier builds
Ah, the original short runner setup hehe. We still need to find someone who had dynoed both back to back, but IIRC someone on FreshAlloy said that they felt little to no difference when they changed theirs.Alpha_Maverick wrote: Thus my "special" intercooler setup. I am going to copy the concept of the project silvia (sport compact car magazine) intercooler, except make it better.
Hehe, I hope so to for your sake. You're still going to need a big intake on the turbo regardless.....so at least changing to drawthrough won't be difficult if you need to in the futureAlpha_Maverick wrote: well, maybe I can be the second! (I'm going to at least try it. It would make the plumbing SOOOOO clean, it's worth a try, especially when I put my BOV underneath the hotpipe, hiding it from view. )
the 260-262 cams, IMO work BEST with any T2 based flange turbo (gt28r, 2871r .76, 28r etc etc), where I think the 262 (HKS Step 2 and JWT S4) work best for the 3071r and 3076r turbocharger. The 272's would mate with a 35r perfectly.Alpha_Maverick wrote: Wow. I didn't think you'd have me pegged so quick. So the 264-ish cams will run out of breath around 7.5k-8k? (-ish. I know that cam choice affects both rpms and turbo choices, etc. blah blah blah.)
haha, you may laugh, but it's not as common as we would like. Our industry is still way to controlled by advertisment, pocketbooks, and magaizinesAlpha_Maverick wrote: Novel idea, huh? People who actually THINK before they spend good money on stuff.
It's an unfortunate way of the world that things are like this. However, it's just great to see when people actually discuss the theory and the results behind parts combinations.codyace wrote:haha, you may laugh, but it's not as common as we would like. Our industry is still way to controlled by advertisment, pocketbooks, and magaizines
I have a Profec Type S, which is a new version of the original Profec B Spec IWhite Comet wrote:i dont want to veer from teh current topic but after rereading this thread it looks like you have a profec b boost controller. is this current or did you switch to something different? i just wanted to here your opinion on what are some good boost controllers. i had a profec b spec 2 and didnt really like it. after some researching though i decided that the avcr woudl be a good choice
yeah i hated mine it was a pain. and i've heard stories of the spec 2s being prone to boost spiking. i just got my avcr today in black and my friend has the same one with his sr and he's putting down more power then any stock t25'ed sr i know of. i heard from the ebay seller , askme4parts, and he said the blitz controllers are the best and he really knows his stuffcodyace wrote:The B Spec II uses a 'sorta/kinda' fuzzy logic, and is definetly not something I like, or would ever suggest. to much guessing for me. Funny that greddy would have changed such a reliable setup.
No longer am I using that IWG. It's abotu as reliable as a CrossFire Camaro haha. My manifold is currently at Enthalpy, getting an external gate provision welded on.Alpha_Maverick wrote:Cody, are you still using the internal WG? (I was digging around on FA and found your post about you being sick of boost creep). Also, how is your intercooler set up?
We used to to this when I was younger with DSM turbos, and FWD Sentra setups....only to see the housing develope nasty cracks and the sort from it. It does help a smidge, but I still think it 'wears out' the actuators.Alpha_Maverick wrote:Did you try porting the IWG? I think I will try that first, just to limit plumbing complexity
If you go on FreshAlloy, look up member 'Vapor' that is how mine will be done.Alpha_Maverick wrote:please post up pix when you get the mani back, and installed. I am curious how you are planning to route it.
It's not slight at all If I just let the Actuator do the work itself, it holds 14ish and then goes up to 20-21. With boost controller on, it works to start, but I think eventually the actuator diaphram and spring fail. Mine would hold 20 nicel, but towards the end, it would goto 24ish?Alpha_Maverick wrote:Also, how bad is your boost creep? If it is only slight, then minor porting/blending might take care of it.
I know what you mean by keeping things hidden and clean, but there is a point where Function> Looks for me.Alpha_Maverick wrote:I know you are going external, but KISS and optimism are pushing me to stay internal. I wonder if you could divorce the turbine and wastegate flow, remove the flapper, and install an external WG on that pipe... That would be stealth-ish and not require borking with the ex. mani. I think I might try that, if I have to.
i totally agree, its not worth it in most cases, but it is pretty popular among series 4 fc owners but mostly because it works a little and fc owners are cheapcodyace wrote:
We used to to this when I was younger with DSM turbos, and FWD Sentra setups....only to see the housing develope nasty cracks and the sort from it. It does help a smidge, but I still think it 'wears out' the actuators.